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Canon's???

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sweetmeats
Nov 28, 2003 15:22:44 Just got back from the cinema watching Master & Commander, and since my campaign is based presently in Flotsom I'm pondering the idea of a scenario or two set on the high seas.

This brings me to a question I don't think I have seen answered anywhere in relation to DL. We have galleons and other large ships but do they have canons? I know DL doesn't have gunpowder weapons (thankfully).
#2
cam_banks
Nov 28, 2003 16:01:27 Cannon has two Ns, canon has one. Cannons are big guns mounted on ships, canon is a body of work accepted as authentic and official.

That said, if gunpowder doesn't exist outside of Mt Nevermind and Ulin's study, then neither do cannons. In place of them, warships have ballistae (giant ship-mounted crossbows), catapults, or rams mounted on the prow of the ship. As you can imagine, the role of the marine (sailors who are present on ships primarily to engage in ship combat or make assaults on land) is much greater.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
zombiegleemax
Nov 28, 2003 16:59:01 And wizards hurling fireballs! :D I know I know...wizards aren´t used much in naval battles but ya can´t deny the firepower a war mage with all his/her offensive spells could bring to a ship...
#4
sweetmeats
Nov 28, 2003 17:36:58
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Cannon has two Ns, canon has one. Cannons are big guns mounted on ships, canon is a body of work accepted as authentic and official.

Oops. Sorry, my ability to type (and think) must have been borrowed by someone...

Ballistae and catapults are good. Thanx.
#5
darthsylver
Nov 28, 2003 18:12:02 SweetMeats, don't worry about cam, he just has way too much time on his hands and gets bored easily.
#6
Matthew_L._Martin
Nov 28, 2003 19:42:35
Originally posted by SweetMeats
I know DL doesn't have gunpowder weapons (thankfully).

Actually, DL _does_ have gunpowder weapons--or 'fireweapons'. They seem to be limited to the dwarves, though, and even they're only as far as using them for large artillery emplacements. See the DL:5A boxed set and the short story in DRAGON #232.

Matthew L. Martin
#7
zombiegleemax
Nov 28, 2003 20:24:05 We actually discussed this on another thread about navies. The gnomes are by the far the biggest purveyors of such weaponry, which is more than enough to scare most other races into not even daring to try them.

Dwarves are fairly isolated and are not big about sharing technology with other races. This is why they continue selling stonecrafting services rather than merely training up other races to dwarven level of skill.

Cannons would be very useful in ship-to-ship engagements, but a lot of the usefulness would be neutralized by two things: dragons and magic.

Dragons, the functional equivalent of the Air Force, have air superiority, speed, manuverability and ranged attack capabilities that would make "Master & Commander" era artillery functionally useless. Indeed, this was the big strength of the dragonarmies and the Knights of Takhisis.

Magic also poses a problem, as a wizard can deliver spells far more lethal with far less difficulty. They can also defend against such attacks. No cannon can penetrate a Wall of Force for example. The only downside is the relative scarcity of magic.

Since most ship captains would die before taking a gnomish cannon aboard their ship, such weapons have not seen wide deployment as yet.
#8
darthsylver
Nov 28, 2003 22:38:44 As far as gunpowder weapons being on Krynn, I would bet that it would be safe to safe that gnomes, everywhere, have some model of a "gun" somewhere. We rarely hear about the gnomes in the books other than short stories in the tales books. Unless I am wrong there are only two full length paperback books on gnomes, The Conundrum and Siege on Mount Nevermind.

Now if you really want gunpowder weapons go to Flaemchaldar in Taladas. The gnomes on Taladas are centuries ahead of their Ansalon cousins. They have ships that sail a lake of lava, and lava flamethrowers. I imagine that if anyone on Krynn had gunpowder weapons it would be them. I cannot wait for a sourcebook on taladas. It is such an untapped source of adventure.
#9
iltharanos
Nov 29, 2003 1:11:19
Originally posted by darthsylver
I cannot wait for a sourcebook on taladas. It is such an untapped source of adventure.

Amen to that. It's been mentioned before, but perhaps we will get a morsel of Taladas in the January '04 issue of Dragon magazine.
#10
baron_the_curse
Nov 29, 2003 12:39:30 I use Cannons in my campaign. I'm playing 80+ years after the War of the Lance, I think is safe to say cannons are around. But hell, even if your playing during the War of the Lance there is nothing stopping you from adding them.

As for those who will tell you that Dragonlance's Tech Level is basically no better than the Dark Ages, ignore that. No body builts High Clerist Towers or cities like Neraka in the Dark Ages. It's a fantasy setting.
#11
sweetmeats
Nov 29, 2003 13:05:22 True I suppose. Technology does tend to build big and slowly get smaller (cannons to flintlock's for instance).

As for dark age cultures building structures such as the High Clerist's, I do tend to think that modern Krynn is still in a dark age of sorts. Its Renaissance days were during the height of Istar and the Ergothian empire IMO. Since then, Ansalon has not really been advancing back towards that too much, and events such as the War of the Lance and the arrival of the Dragon Overlords has certainly slowed that advancement,
#12
zombiegleemax
Nov 29, 2003 13:25:34 The gnomes have cannons though they aren't too powerful.

In the War of the Lance the gnomes and Knights attempt to block the Straits of Branchala leading into Palanthus harbor using gnomish cannons. Sadly, the cannons wer enot powerful enough to reach the center of the straits meaning any intelligent foe could easily sail their fleet in.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sweetmeats Nov 28, 2003 15:22:44	Just got back from the cinema watching Master & Commander, and since my campaign is based presently in Flotsom I'm pondering the idea of a scenario or two set on the high seas. This brings me to a question I don't think I have seen answered anywhere in relation to DL. We have galleons and other large ships but do they have canons? I know DL doesn't have gunpowder weapons (thankfully).
#2 cam_banks Nov 28, 2003 16:01:27	Cannon has two Ns, canon has one. Cannons are big guns mounted on ships, canon is a body of work accepted as authentic and official. That said, if gunpowder doesn't exist outside of Mt Nevermind and Ulin's study, then neither do cannons. In place of them, warships have ballistae (giant ship-mounted crossbows), catapults, or rams mounted on the prow of the ship. As you can imagine, the role of the marine (sailors who are present on ships primarily to engage in ship combat or make assaults on land) is much greater. Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 28, 2003 16:59:01	And wizards hurling fireballs! :D I know I know...wizards aren´t used much in naval battles but ya can´t deny the firepower a war mage with all his/her offensive spells could bring to a ship...
#4 sweetmeats Nov 28, 2003 17:36:58	Originally posted by Cam Banks Cannon has two Ns, canon has one. Cannons are big guns mounted on ships, canon is a body of work accepted as authentic and official. Oops. Sorry, my ability to type (and think) must have been borrowed by someone... Ballistae and catapults are good. Thanx.
#5 darthsylver Nov 28, 2003 18:12:02	SweetMeats, don't worry about cam, he just has way too much time on his hands and gets bored easily.
#6 Matthew_L._Martin Nov 28, 2003 19:42:35	Originally posted by SweetMeats I know DL doesn't have gunpowder weapons (thankfully). Actually, DL _does_ have gunpowder weapons--or 'fireweapons'. They seem to be limited to the dwarves, though, and even they're only as far as using them for large artillery emplacements. See the DL:5A boxed set and the short story in DRAGON #232. Matthew L. Martin
#7 zombiegleemax Nov 28, 2003 20:24:05	We actually discussed this on another thread about navies. The gnomes are by the far the biggest purveyors of such weaponry, which is more than enough to scare most other races into not even daring to try them. Dwarves are fairly isolated and are not big about sharing technology with other races. This is why they continue selling stonecrafting services rather than merely training up other races to dwarven level of skill. Cannons would be very useful in ship-to-ship engagements, but a lot of the usefulness would be neutralized by two things: dragons and magic. Dragons, the functional equivalent of the Air Force, have air superiority, speed, manuverability and ranged attack capabilities that would make "Master & Commander" era artillery functionally useless. Indeed, this was the big strength of the dragonarmies and the Knights of Takhisis. Magic also poses a problem, as a wizard can deliver spells far more lethal with far less difficulty. They can also defend against such attacks. No cannon can penetrate a Wall of Force for example. The only downside is the relative scarcity of magic. Since most ship captains would die before taking a gnomish cannon aboard their ship, such weapons have not seen wide deployment as yet.
#8 darthsylver Nov 28, 2003 22:38:44	As far as gunpowder weapons being on Krynn, I would bet that it would be safe to safe that gnomes, everywhere, have some model of a "gun" somewhere. We rarely hear about the gnomes in the books other than short stories in the tales books. Unless I am wrong there are only two full length paperback books on gnomes, The Conundrum and Siege on Mount Nevermind. Now if you really want gunpowder weapons go to Flaemchaldar in Taladas. The gnomes on Taladas are centuries ahead of their Ansalon cousins. They have ships that sail a lake of lava, and lava flamethrowers. I imagine that if anyone on Krynn had gunpowder weapons it would be them. I cannot wait for a sourcebook on taladas. It is such an untapped source of adventure.
#9 iltharanos Nov 29, 2003 1:11:19	Originally posted by darthsylver I cannot wait for a sourcebook on taladas. It is such an untapped source of adventure. Amen to that. It's been mentioned before, but perhaps we will get a morsel of Taladas in the January '04 issue of Dragon magazine.
#10 baron_the_curse Nov 29, 2003 12:39:30	I use Cannons in my campaign. I'm playing 80+ years after the War of the Lance, I think is safe to say cannons are around. But hell, even if your playing during the War of the Lance there is nothing stopping you from adding them. As for those who will tell you that Dragonlance's Tech Level is basically no better than the Dark Ages, ignore that. No body builts High Clerist Towers or cities like Neraka in the Dark Ages. It's a fantasy setting.
#11 sweetmeats Nov 29, 2003 13:05:22	True I suppose. Technology does tend to build big and slowly get smaller (cannons to flintlock's for instance). As for dark age cultures building structures such as the High Clerist's, I do tend to think that modern Krynn is still in a dark age of sorts. Its Renaissance days were during the height of Istar and the Ergothian empire IMO. Since then, Ansalon has not really been advancing back towards that too much, and events such as the War of the Lance and the arrival of the Dragon Overlords has certainly slowed that advancement,
#12 zombiegleemax Nov 29, 2003 13:25:34	The gnomes have cannons though they aren't too powerful. In the War of the Lance the gnomes and Knights attempt to block the Straits of Branchala leading into Palanthus harbor using gnomish cannons. Sadly, the cannons wer enot powerful enough to reach the center of the straits meaning any intelligent foe could easily sail their fleet in.