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#1rumblebellyNov 28, 2003 23:39:06 | I didn't want to hijack the thread about human sub-races, so I thought I'd start another one. Can anyone offer me some ideas on the history of relations between the elves and suel on Lendor Isle? I have kinda taken the castle on Bone Hill and made it the site of one of the first battles between the migrating Suel and native Elves. I assume the Suel and Elves battled it out for a while, and the elves, seeing that the Suel of that time were mighty in magic and very determined, agreed to cede some portion of the island to the humans. But in the intervening years the magical prowess of the Suel has waned...only I can't think of a good reason why this should be so. Anyone have any ideas? |
#2rumblebellyDec 03, 2003 1:07:22 | Well, since no one has offered me any ideas, how 'bout a critique or elaboration on what I have come up with so far. Keep in mind that I am using the Oerth Journal timeline and assume that the relationship between the Suel and the Elves is rocky due to past history. Led by the Archmage Lendore the Suel came to the Spindrift Isles and tried to settle peacably (-432 CY, according to OJ). However, the elves there, remembering the betrayal of the Suel in past times, choose to attack the Suel. At this time, the Suel are still very mighty in magic coming fresh from the Suel Imperium just before its final fall, so they are able to rally back and defend themselves admirably against the elves. The elves, knowing that the power of the Suel resides in their wizards, make a concerted effort to decimate the magic-users. They succeed reasonably well, but not without heavy losses on their side. However, having destroyed most of the high-level wizards, the elves feel for the Suel followers of Lendore and the other mages and decide to let the Suel Peolpe stay. They demand only that the Suel take care to preserve the native populations of flora and fauna, and that they ban the worship of evil gods. Wee Jas maintains a following in Lo Reltarma in her Guardian of the Dead aspect, but gods like Syral and Llerg are done away with. That is why today, one sees only worship of practical Suel deities like Phaulkon and Osprem (well, and Norebo) on Lendore Isle. This centuries long worship of the "good" gods of the Suel Pantheon had the effect of making the Suel people on Lendore "more mellow," as someone in the subraces thread said. So, the island is divided up into Fiefdoms (a system to which the Suel are accustomed), who owe their fealty to the elvish council of Five in Lo Reltarma, who represent the major political areas of the rest of the Spindrifts. In this way, a compromise is struck between the Suel Hierarchical way of ruling and the elven communal way of ruling. Any justice or decision the Council of Five hands down is deliberated upon by all members, but the Duke of Kroten, the Baron or Restenford, the Mayor of Garrotten and others rule over their territories in the feudal manner. This system has remained stable for centuries due to the power of the elves. No Frost Barbarian raids, Great Kingdom Invasions, Lordship of the Isles or Sea Barons incurrsions because no one in their right mind wants to raise the ire of the Elves that protect Lendore Isle. One can also imagine why the Suel feel so betrayed and bitter when the elves kick them out. The system was working and they resent being thought of in the same way as the Scarlet Brotherhood Suel, to whom their culture bears no resemblance in the modern age. Comments? |
#3zombiegleemaxDec 03, 2003 16:41:59 | Hey Rumblebelly, I like your speculation and agree that the Spindrift olves seem to have won the war (of attrition?) against Lendore's Suel. Referring to Gary Holian's article on Keoland, it seems right that Lendore was only accompanied by a few apprentices of any power. When the olven "assassins" killed or captured the majority of these arcanists, likely Lendore recognized the importance of fleeing to the City of Glass. Alternatively, Lendore may have led the Suel to the Spindrift Isles specifically to access the City of Glass. Once able to enter, he may have left most of his followers. (A post describing the City of Glass can be found in this forum.) I disagree with the notion that the olves felt compassion for the remaining Suel. Although olves tend to be Good, following the OJ Timeline you cited, the olves would likely judge the Suel too malign a race of humanity to forgive. Therefore I suggest that the olves' love of life (in particular their own) caused them to withdraw from the contested isle in the years immediately following Lendore's withdrawal. While some wardens remained hidden and watchful, the leaders of the Spindrift olves (the Council of Five?) were wary of Lendore's revenge. However, as decades became centuries, olves began to return to the southernmost isle. While many Suel-derived Spindrift humans might have been "initially" wary of the olves, with the passing of further generations, relations came to be as represented in the modules? I suspect that the Spindrift humans did interact with humans from the Lordship of the Isles. While the Sea Barons likely kept "barbarian" raids from this southern clime, the Barons themselves probably had to learn of the capability of the olven navy on their own. ;) I don't know if the Spindrift human rulers knew much about the Scarlet Brotherhood. Perhaps one of the reasons that the olves displaced the majority of the Spindrift humans was because their leadership had become infiltrated by the Scarlet Brotherhood. After killing some of Shar's agents, the Council of Five may have determined it better to displace the vast majority rather than contend with hidden enemies. Then when the People of the Testing usurped the Council, this issue became moot? |
#4grodogDec 03, 2003 21:21:17 | Hey Rumblebelly, the post that Tizoc referred to on the City of Glass is here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120150 |
#5rumblebellyDec 04, 2003 0:24:08 | Thanks for the replies guys. Perhaps, Tizoc you were right about the Olve not being so forgiving, but how about them being opportunistic. I have made the skeleton in room BO, the study, of the Secret of Bone Hill module the remains of an Elven Priest/Wizard of Aedrie Faenya, and have assumed that Lendore Isle was/is sacred to this goddess because of the rich bird life. Hence, Phaulkon was one of the Suel deities to come to prominence on the Isle. The Skeleton, a bloke named Lisandras, was imprisoned by Lendore and a few mages when they first came to the island. Anyway, they forgot about him (meaning they didn't feed him or give him water) and he died, sort of. His will to live was such that his bones remain animated and his eyes and tongue have not rotted away. The Wights and Wraiths are the results of a later Oeridian invasion, where the battles were so fierce that many people died violently enough to become incorporeal undead. The Suel eventually pushed the Oeridians out completely, but no one has been to Bone Hill since that ancient battle. Anyway, when the Suel invaded they were up against the combined might of all the Olve of the islands, but a rift between the faith of Aedrie Faenya and Sehanine Moonbow caused the Lendore Isle elves to be abandoned by the rest. That is why they never made an attempt to rescue Lisandras. Thus, the Lendore Olve could not turn the Suel away. Rather than try and drive these foul humans away, the Lendore Olve finally settled with the Suel, seeing the futility of an ongoing struggle. But they played politically from a position of strength, allowing the Suel to set up the kind of government they are used to if they became vassals of the Council of Seven (Olves) and that they agree to the terms I already mentioned. The Council of Seven, in turn, has just recently re-established something akin to favorable relations with the Council of Five (Northern Sprindrift). That's all I have for now, but I welcome any comments and elaborations. I haven't quite figured out how to Work the City of Glass into all of this, but I like your suggestion, Tizoc, that Lendore led his people here expressly for the purpose of accessing it. Maybe his power as an avatar was winding down and he needed to return to his place of power. |
#6zombiegleemaxDec 04, 2003 14:52:35 | Not to detract from your well composed summarization, but I seem to remember the olves keeping them around as a means of manual labor to help them build, not only constructionally, but agriculturally as well. They were few, but the Suel were many. What a better way to accomplish their great ambitions without exhausting theirselves. Otherwise, I like it! Unforunately, I haven't concentrated much of my efforts into the Lendore Isles as I would've liked to. |
#7rumblebellyDec 04, 2003 15:40:22 | Originally posted by abysslin Ah, yes, but this takes place after 583 CY when the Olve kick out the Suel and subjugate Lendore Isle. My campaign, however, starts in 576 CY, before this happens. Thanks, for pointing that out, because I had been conentraitng my research on the '83 boxed set and virtually ignoring the later stuff. But going over this material again gives me a historical trajectory against which to set my campaign. While I'm at it, my explanation for the Orcs (and possibly gnolls) that populate Lendore Isle (something I find hard to countenance due to the strong elven presence, if they are supposed to be indiginous) is that they were originally slaves, servants, or henchman of the Suel, who are known to have employed humanoid mercenaries in their wars of empire. When the Olve settled with the Suel, they indicated in no uncertain terms that the Suel should destroy or otherwise dissassociate themselves from such vile creatures. Some of the Suel, however, had grown somewhat attached to their servants and could not bring themselves to destroy them, so they set them free in the many hills and mountains on the interior of the island. This is one reason why the Council of Seven wished to reconcile with the Nothern Spindrift Olve. They feel that the Suel failure to comply with their terms has resulted in pest problem, i.e., the orcs and gnolls of the hills. This has laid the ground work for the eventual expulsion of the Suel from the Isles, when the Olve set about purifying these lands for their religious purposes. How's that! |
#8rumblebellyDec 07, 2003 20:14:23 | By the By, can anyone tell me what other sources relate to Lendore Isle besides the boxed sets and the L1-2 modules, if indeed other sources exist? |
#9grodogDec 08, 2003 1:03:32 | L3, Deep Dwarven Delve from the Silver Anniversary Boxed Set. Len also ran a lot of tourneys at GenCon some of which were definitely set in Lendore, though I haven't been able to track any of them down yet, alas :/ |
#10rumblebellyDec 09, 2003 13:29:26 | Originally posted by grodog Thanks, Grodog. Unfortunately, I don't own this and 'tis the season to not spend money on myself. Could you perhaps give me a brief summary of the info in that adventure, just so I can keep it in mind when designing my campaign? Particularly, does it say whether dwarves are indiginous to Lendore Isle or did they migrate there? Any other history I should know. |
#11grodogDec 10, 2003 23:07:12 | Rumblebelly, here's the DM background from L3: *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS *** SPOILERS L3: DEEP DWARVEN DELVE Enjoy! |
#12rumblebellyDec 11, 2003 13:56:25 | Wow, Grodog. I wasn't expecting such a detailed response. Anyway, thanks. Devils afoot on Lendore Isle! BTW, does the module happen to mention who the new ruler of Restenford is since Baron Grellus got murdered in the Assassin's Knot? I'd like to include this person in the background (or invent an appropriate person to include) of the campaign so that the transition between rulers makes senes when things happen. Overall, do you think L3 worth owning? Oh, yeah, and should I consider this clan of dwarves indiginous, or did they migrate here? Am I knit-picking too much?!? Again, thanks for the detailed response; it really helps. |
#13robbastardDec 11, 2003 17:36:50 | In addition to L1, L2, & L3, more information on Lendore Isle can be found in Dungeon #71 (1998) in an adventure called "Priestly Secrets," which revisits Restenford, where we find Grellus & Fairwind's daughter Andrella in charge. There's also the Song & Silence web enhancement, "Hand of the Highwayman," (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/highwayman.zip) which seems to assume that the elves have not yet taken Restenford. There's also Len Lakofa's description of Fortubo in Dragon #88, which mentions a town on Lendore Isle called Dwarfhaven, which is the HQ for his church, IIRC. |
#14rumblebellyDec 12, 2003 0:11:16 | Wow! Robbastard to the rescue. Thanks. I'll see if I can look into some of these sources. I might actually have Dragon 88 sitting around somewhere. I seem to recall this article. |
#15rumblebellyDec 12, 2003 0:15:10 | Restenford must have grown quite a bit since the L1-3 series. I didn't think the town large enough for a sewer system! |
#16grodogDec 13, 2003 2:25:37 | Rumblebelly, L3's worth owning, though I wouldn't pay more than $10 or so for it by itself, since it was included in the 25th Anniversary box set (along with several other modules, etc.). Most of the time the box set goes for $25-40 on eBay, but I've sometimes seen individual copies of L3 go for the same $$$, so don't waste your money on them when you can buy the whole set :D I don't recall the details about the dwarves or the new ruler, and will have to go check.... |
#17rumblebellyDec 13, 2003 23:25:48 | Thanks for the head's up. I'll keep an eye out for L3 once the Christmas season clears. |