I'm preparing a campaign where my players will certainly deal with ancient knowledges and history of Athas... and I need info about Ebe! I know that the ruins are quiet well described in the Crimson Legion Novel but I can't find this place on official maps... Where is it exactly? (maybe I must change my glasses)... Does anyone of you could help me? Thanks a lot!
Nefal
PS I've read somewhere that was on the Silt Archipelago... It surprises me...
Incidentally, my life is now a bit more settled and I'm now well into the last substantial chapter of the Silt Archipelago supplement. I'm hoping to get it out by the end of the year, probably with a few tidy-ups and loose ends in January.
i propose... it sank just like everyone else feels, but the dragon protected it with the great ash storm
ok... thanks a lot for your answers! I hope it will be well described in "Ruins of Athas"... and the informations will allow the solution of the remained questions! ;)
See you
Nefal
then why does the valley of dust and fire rest 2000 ft below the suface of the sea of silt (p29 valley of dust and fire)
There is a bit at the beginnng of Valley of Dust and Fire (maybe Journal of Galek Sandstrider, can't remember) that states that during the Cleansing Wars, there was a great disaster during which the Sunrise Sea boiled away and a rain of ash and fire fell across the Tablelands.
We know that the Sunrise Sea was where the Sea of Silt now is, so it seems likely to me that, following some cataclysm, the crust itself cracked, with the open magma of the Ring of Fire being the result. The surrounding sea, seabed and subsequent silt were scoured away, down to the bedrock by the storms that were created. Hence the Valley is located deeper than the surface of the silt and at its heart is actually even deeper than the seabed of the old ocean itself.
Finally, we also know from the timeline that Ur Draxa was not built until after the Cleansing wars and is only about 1500 years old, give or take a century or two. (Although the timeline does seem to contradict the info in Valley of Dust and Fire, which states that the Ur Draxan society is far older, this might only refer to the culture that spawned Ur Draxa, and not the city itself...) More idle thoughts
actually what's interest me is the link between the City of Ebe and the Citadel described in the PP...
I mean if it would be the "New Ebe", it's quiet far a away from the original... and, well, doesn't sound really good...
The Citadel is also too far away to be an outpost or something like this... A grave? There were these wraiths in the Citadel... maybe it's a track to follow...
Although I enjoy to read the next chapters of the Silt Archipelago and would probably adopt the point of view developed in this cool setting. Wait and see!
ciao
Nefal
PS And if I remember well, there's some mistakes in this timeline (I think about Kalidnay...) Is it an official document? Maybe a revision could be good...
What if the Dragon's Bowl was Ebe? Myth is usually based on some kernel of truth. The original WJ stated that it was where the original dragon busted loose. Of course, that doesn't fit with the whole "Ebe beneath the waves of silt" idea, so maybe it's way off.
Actually quiet good... but just one question... what's happened then to Ebe? Earthquake? War? Supernatural powers? Why is there the Dragon's bowl at the place of the city?
I'm not sure to have understand your analogy with universities (maybe because I'm european...) altought I've thought about a fortified camp built during the war campaign against Kled/Kemmalock... if this war becomed a siege of many years, it's could be possible!:D
Ideas?
Bye
Nefal
altought I've thought about a fortified camp built during the war campaign against Kled/Kemmalock... if this war becomed a siege of many years, it's could be possible!
This is the line I've gone for.
As for Ebe being the Dragon's Bowl, when Borys turned into the dragon, he probably went to town on his own city first, blowing it into pieces with 10th level spells. The rest of the SKs saw this and locked down their cities, not wishing to bring him their way. Ebe, having no SK now that Borys was insane, had nothing to protect them from the ravages of the Dragon. Like so many tiny villages that dot the wastes, Ebe was blown to pieces.
Originally posted by kefka
youd better post it before the the mind flayer guy releases his book that places it in the silt achepelagio (i still think that it was changed into ur draxa my self <>)
Hey! I'm not forcing anyone to use my stuff. It is so cool people will want to use it anyway.
And I'm not really a mind flayer in real life...
Honest...
I can smell your brains!
now, would go and levitate all the way to whats left of ur draxa and dig for some proof, but i'm in the middle of my metamorphisis (will you guys hurry up with dragon epic rules jeeze)
see i'm stoked about what afgan wrote about the silt archepelagio, he was the first to post something that expanded the sea of silt south ward, and once gr8scott finally shows us a map, he will have expanded the sea to the north, but personally... ebe dosent belong on the coast
obviously the island city of waverly was rich (all of the silver rumored to remain there), and obviously borys was more powerful (or just better liked than ablach-re (unyss)..
so i went with the idea that urdraxa used to be an island (ebe) and the dragon came back and picked the bloodlines (of his champions, the wraiths) to be the nobles... the rest were enslaved and this is the way it has been since borys sunk the island... (wrote an adventure into the valley, don't know if my players dug it (too much time in the sea of silt) but this was the story line i used)
hope you've enjoyed my foamy mouthed rant
grrrrrrrrrrr
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr <>
[email]Gr8ScottImsol8@aol.com[/email]
Scott
Originally posted by Gr8Scott
Afghan, I'll give yo my onformation soon and you are welcome to incorporate it into yours if you like, I just put EBE on the eastern shores
[email]Gr8ScottImsol8@aol.com[/email]
Scott
I think it was Grummore who was after your stuff. I'm not quite sure what I'd do with it. My version of Ebe is a bit dusty to be quite honest. But get it up online. The more options the merrier.
Originally posted by Gr8Scott
Afghan, maybe mine could be a second Ebe, I.E. the first was destroyed just wondering
Of course you can. It's a free country after all.
Seriously, I'm just flattered that you want to work your material around mine.
As to Ebe: Has anyone thought Ur Draxa might be built on the ruins of Ebe? Tyr is the same way, a city built on the ruins of an older city. It could explain why Borys took up residence there, after he calmed down from his tormented metamorphosis.
--it's good to be back NB
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
Hi, everyone! I'm back, after a long exile at the White Wolf boards. Glad to see the Dark Sun board just as lively as ever!
As to Ebe: Has anyone thought Ur Draxa might be built on the ruins of Ebe? Tyr is the same way, a city built on the ruins of an older city. It could explain why Borys took up residence there, after he calmed down from his tormented metamorphosis.
--it's good to be back NB
Gr8 Point thats where my original was, then I had Borys rebuild it on the Eastern Shores
--there is precedence for such a thing NB
Of course this is all conjecture, but Ur Draxa really doesn't strike me as a city-state ruled by Borys, nor does Borys strike me as someone who would dwell on grass next to the imprisoned remains of his old mentor Rajaat.
nik
Those trees are there for one reason: Fuel. If anyone ever breached the inner walls of Ur Draxa, the Dragon would have had one hell of a fight on his hands. He'd need all the plant and animal around him that he could get.
Of course, he had to go take a toke on the good, 'ole ooze-blasting Scourge.
Wow, there's a real point in there somewhere, if you can find it. [end ramble]
While I do admit the idea of a second city somewhere might be kinda off-base, I still don't see his sanctum as being home sweet home. It's just the centre of the prison he built. I see him as having another lair somewhere, or see that as being very likely. It's true, he has finished his metamorphosis and maybe doesn't have much else to do with himself, but he's been sane for what, 1900 years or so? He musta been doing something in that time besides building the prison. Likely travelling all over athas at the very least. If the draxans are the remnants of the descendents of his original cleansing army, I think it's entirely possible there might be some little zoo city he built somewhere, or checks up on, that houses the descendents of Ebe. On the other side of the silt sea, there could very well be a New Ebe that's something of a capitol of a network of small city-states, secure in its power because an angry dragon protects the city and enforces it superiority.
Really i should check up to see if Ebe was evr strictly destroyed, but I'm a bit lazy and a "New Ebe" would make that detail moot anyway.
nik
"there used to be a great island in the center of the sunshine sea... the sea began to boil two-thousand years ago" approx the time borys transformed
"every draxan can trace his lineage back to the champions of borys" because he took all his troops from ebe
though it is never stated in the canon rules , don't you think that this is what they were getting at without revealing the truth about it (remember the majority of the PP was released after VoDaF (which i recomend we all sit down and scrutinize very closely
ps Kamelion, where does it say that Ur Draxa was built only 1500 years ago
pps Borys didn't hate the dwarves anymore (VoDaF says there were some in UrDraxa)
there shouldn't be any dwarves in Ur Draxa, except maybe as slaves that Borys has no direct control over. He must've hated dwarves in the first place to become their champion, or something like that. He had little love for Caelum. On the other hand, he had well over a thousand years to wise up and rethink his philosophy.
there are inconsistencies between books and game stuff, usually because not as much effort was made ascould have been to make sure they all meshed perfectly.
The 1500 years ago thing I assume is a poduct of the fact that Borys built Ur Draxa using loot gleaned from Yaramuke's destruction as a tribute from Hamanu to appease Borys. It's entirely possible that Borys went back to Ebe as a dragon, ruled there, or kinda ruled over the ruins (let's say he destroyed it while mad), then when he got Yaramuke remains from Hamanu, he moved his population to the center of the sunrise sea/silt sea to build ur draxa as a new and far better prison for Rajaat's rremains. Or maybe the prison and his city were in two seperate places, and he abandoned the city and built a new city around the prison, consolidating his attention base.
nik
so that raises the question... what is cannon matter and what is not...
it is said right in the sourcebooks that the events in the PP are the natural progression of what happens on athas
what do you mean by maps nick
ps. there are dwaves in ur draxa, does that mean that the dragon is not borys?
pps. there were only 15 champions (16 w the lion)
The dragon is borys, but by all accounts he should be a human supremacist, so there oughtn't be any dwarves or non-humans in his city besides the random slave and odd offpsring between a slave and a noble (almost always a half-elf I should think, since they're the most "human"). Actually, this should be the case for most city-states. Hamanu really wasn't a human supremacist, he just hated trolls for razing his village. If we're to believe Kalak wasn't a champion, he shouldn't care. But I'd think that most nobles and templars are typically human, maybe with the odd exception, and depending on the champion's original views regarding their assigned race, whether they're racist or just wanted the power rajaat could give them.
anyway, back to ur draxa and ebe . . . taken from the official timeline:
"167th King's Age (-1,771)
-Ral's Agitation
In an attempt to increase her power, Sielba, Queen of Yaramuke attacks Urik. Hamanu easily defeats her army and personally slays the sorcerer-queen. On the heels of victory, Urik's army sacks Yaramuke and burns the city to the ground. To appease the Dragon's wrath for killing a sorcerer-queen, Hamanu presents Borys with a levy of Yaramuke's riches-which pleases the beast and spares Urik.
-Silt's Defiance
Borys uses the booty gained from Yaramuke to build Ur Draxa, which becomes the greatest city on all of Athas. At the center of the city Borys places the Black Sphere for him and his city to protect."
That implies a few things. First, Ur Draxa isn't old enough to be Ebe. Second, it is built about 150 years (give or take) after Borys comes out of his rampage. Third, since it is generally acknowledged that the Draxans all descend (in one form or another, since it also states in VoDaF that some noble houses were granted the names of others and were not originally desceneded from them) from Borys' original armies, then these armies must have had someplace to go and wait these 150 years before Borys claimed them again and moved them to his shiny new city. Also, earlier in the timeline it says that Ebe, Waverly and Arala are swallowed by the silt. That means the soldiers could not have been hiding out in Ebe. Though it could mean that Ebe was where Ur Draxa is now, and in building his city Borys could have uncovered the ruins of Ebe. Though it begs the question of why it's not called Ebe or New Ebe or something.
Anyway, yeah. I have problems with the timeline (like the fact that supposedly "ocean" and "island" were replaced by "silt" and "desert" about 14000 years ago according to this offical timeline), but beyond the obvious inconsistencies and crappy mistakes, it gives a good idea of when stuff happens.
here's the link i read it at, though it's pretty much all over the place, including on the wizards site:
http://www.stl-online.net/thenexus/rpgs/darksun/timeline.html
nick
who in the world even wrote that... there are things propossed in that timeline that directly contradict the sourcebooks
learn to filter your media... the matrix has you capn
nik
ps Kamelion, where does it say that Ur Draxa was built only 1500 years ago
Well, it's more like 1700 years now I look at it again - Cap'n Nick beat me to it with the quote
The timeline was also handed out at a Gencon a while back by the DS team (iirc).
Note that this timeline was posted on the old DS mailing list by Kevin Melka himself and also appears in Dregoth Ascending, so it is official.
Though I do wonder why it is that silt and desert would replace ocean and island, especially immediately after the close of the blue age. Does that imply that the whole world was ravaged by the brown tide and only the area immediately surrounding the tablelands was verdant, with the sunrise sea being the only "ocean"-sized body of water left? Or was that just a big screw-up on whoever wrote its part?
nik
Originally posted by Cap'n Nick
Though I do wonder why it is that silt and desert would replace ocean and island, especially immediately after the close of the blue age. Does that imply that the whole world was ravaged by the brown tide and only the area immediately surrounding the tablelands was verdant, with the sunrise sea being the only "ocean"-sized body of water left? Or was that just a big screw-up on whoever wrote its part?
Screw-up would be my option number 1. However, I'm prepared to go for a touch of absurdist exegesis on this one, particularly after taking so much time trying to fit my own material round that blasted timeline.
If you look up silt in the dictionary it actually means a sediment in water rather than a dry powder. Perhaps the oceans of the Green Age were still silty from the brown tide. Perhaps it was just a memory of the events that led to the Green Age.
As far as island to desert is concerned this is a little sillier. In the Blue Age an island was somewhere without much water. In the Green Age a desert was somewhere without much water. In current times the distinction has been lost a little bit. Perhaps the name should be updated to Everywhere.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
The official timeline is also on Flip's site .
Note that this timeline was posted on the old DS mailing list by Kevin Melka himself and also appears in Dregoth Ascending, so it is official.
And, for those who don't know, Kevin was the last TSR employed Dark Sun campaign manager. Spent some time on the DSML, before we managed to heap so much abuse on him that he had to leave in order to retain his sanity.
Spent some time on the DSML, before we managed to heap so much abuse on him that he had to leave in order to retain his sanity.
. . . . poor guy
Originally posted by Mach2.5
. . . . poor guy
Not one of the list's finer moments.
Ebe - destroyed (by Borys, in my opinoion), but the ruins are out there, somewhere, waiting beneath the waves of silt. When will it show up? If you're the GM, pretty much any damn time you want it to. Where will it show up? If you're the GM, pretty much any damn place you want it to. Nothing official, nor should there be.
Sea and forest to dust and sand - have a star turn from GV sequence to a KIb Giant would reek absolute havoc with an orbiting planet. Thank god this is a fantasy game or the radiation alone would have long ago sterilized everything on Athas.
That's my take, at least.
island replaced by silt
water replaced by desert
who likes math?
i have and absurd math problem for you?
(this is all conjecture, so bear with)
1) Stony Barrens = ex forest.
2) Sandy Wastes = ex grasslands.
3) Rocky Badlands = (maybe) rolling foothills covered with grasses and trees - once they were wiped away, there was nothing to hold the topsoil in place; it got washed away.
That's it. The stony barrens part, I'm pretty sure, is accurate. Of course, this is only useful if you're trying to make a Green Age map of Athas (as I am).
what if the island in the center of the sunrise sea was a mass of living rocksteam (the first halflings found something living on the bottom of the ocean) that borys defiled to boil away rajaats sacred element in order to make the great ash storm and lock the the hollow at the bottom of the sea
where did the growth come from?
lets keep rolling with the rhul thraun as space aliens (because that we know is where our makers were going with this)... we know that the rhul were very tuned into the sun, they used it and even altered it for their own needs.
I proposse that the dark lens is responsible for the sunrise sea (which is smaller than almost all of the seas on earth (not like that matters)... the rhul dropped the dark lens here and hid the crystal sphere of athas from the gods and other space farers
the math just dosent work out right though
if you approximate the volume of the sea of silt (as a half of a sphere) and subtract the volume of a cone (representing the fact that you can see ur draxa from the bleak tower (over 300 miles away)... the figures are close but now i am calculating the volumes of all of the islands
anybody game... is it possible that the silt (superfine highly fertile remains) came from a giant living "growth" (minde scab) brought on by the presence of the dark lens
Dude, you've been surfing on that squark too long.
i smoke da esperweed and ja answers just come rolling
Dude! Where's my car...er I mean, share that esperweed!
That's some damn good shiznit!
does any one have a better idea for the production of approximately 15000 cubic miles of dust
still smokin
where is jon and flip when i need them?
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
From what I can see, it looks like the replacement goes deeper than that. While filling out the Athas map, I noticed a few things.
(this is all conjecture, so bear with)
1) Stony Barrens = ex forest.
2) Sandy Wastes = ex grasslands.
3) Rocky Badlands = (maybe) rolling foothills covered with grasses and trees - once they were wiped away, there was nothing to hold the topsoil in place; it got washed away.
That's it. The stony barrens part, I'm pretty sure, is accurate. Of course, this is only useful if you're trying to make a Green Age map of Athas (as I am).
I don't think that is really accurate. Stony Barrens are nothing more than desert pavement, which has all its top soil washed away. Sandy wastes can expand covering forests or grasslands. Mostly, the only way we can find what terrain was what, was by taking samples and dating them. The California desert was all open woodlands during the last Ice Age, despite the fact now it is a mix of stony barrens, scrub plains, badlands and sandy wastes.
If I were to guess, since there are trade winds that blow east to west, which is good enough to create a rainshadow desert behind the Ringing Mountains, I would say the Tyr region is located north above the tropic and desert band. The Tyr region probably had a mediterranean climate. Moutains had thick forests while the lower elevations (the rest of the Tyr region) would have grass plains, brush fields and scattered forests.
...
To my knowledge, the Sea of Silt is a Dust Stink. All the defiled matter from plants and animals collected in the lowest point, which was where the seas were. I honestly cannot think of a magic so powerful it could destroy the oceans. That is a lot of water. Even if the seas boiled away, the moisture has to be somewhere on Athas. My guess, somebody opened a portal to the plane of water and drained the seas, much like pulling a plug in a cartoon!
The Sea of Silt is rather odd. It should really be sand dunes. People shouldn't sink in it, unless it was really quicksand. Another problem, if you have enough fine dust to create a sea of silt, when a good wind blows, there should be a dust storm like you have never seen. A global dust strom that covers the entire world and lasts for months at a time, just like on Mars.
I wouldn't worry too much about offical timelines. The Dark Sun Timeline should be whatever the DM & players would like it to be.
If I were going to create a Green Age map of the Tyr region, I would make Arala and Ebe floating selections, that could be moved if new material arises.
Muhahahahahahahhahahaahahahaa!!!
Odd, the Sunrise Sea is actually to the west of the Tyr region, where the sun sets, unless Athas's orbit is retrograde, which would be cool alone with multiple suns (and a ring for that Sc-fi effect). If it is called the Sunrise Sea, meaning that the civilization who named it was located west of the sea, meaning that they must have been more advanced than the Tyr region is it is possible the Ebe was on the far western end of the Sea of Silt.
Odd, the Sunrise Sea is actually to the west of the Tyr region
Odd, in my game it's to the east :D
where did we find the rotation of athas?
Ral - Yes, Sunrise Sea == Sea of Silt.
dosent anybody dig the "silt came from the great island" idea, fine fine don't put ebe on it (i fear i have lost any right to be in that discusion),
but you guys have any better ideas where the island went...
round 2: borys opened the malestrom (a gate to plane of fire) at the bottom of the sunrise sea and the sea boiled and blew the remains of the island all over the tablelands
<--- still skankin it easyi summon Jon, lightning bolts and all, wern't you around when people used to brainstorm about these things?
Logic, everyone. :embarrass
No matter where you are the sun will rise in the east. So its either people from the Tyr Region or people from the Sunrise Sea itself that named the sea, because for them the sun would rise from the sea.
People far off east at the limit of the Sunrise Sea would see the sun rise from the land, and would think their neibhors from the west nuts to have called their sea 'Sunrise'.
My two Cps...
Originally posted by Pennarin
No matter where you are the sun will rise in the east.
Venus?
Actually, I think the word "east" is derived from the old Indo-European word for dawn so arguably this is the definition of the word. It's north and south which are different on Venus.
By the by, I have heard it said that the Tyr'agi region lies in the southern hemisphere of Athas. That would imply that sun would always be to the north. Does anybody know of anything in the literature that would verify that. I'd look through my own stuff but most of it is lent to players at the moment.
On Neptune, if you were to assume Polaris to be the North Star of the Solar system (it isn't, but bear with), the sun would swing up from the South and set in the North. There are examples of other planets and moons moving in retrograde motion, as well, so it's plausible that the sun could indeed rise in the West and set in the South. Add to this the fact that this is a fantasy setting and you could have the sun rise in Globxt and set in Frrompt.
In short, I rather like "rise in the East, set in the West" so we'll just stick with that. Besides, it's called the "Sunrise" Sea people, and it's located in the East. Kind of nails that argument shut if you ask me.
Neptune
*Uranus
The only thing east of the Tyr region is the Thri-Kreen lands that could have a sea that could have boiled away. If Athas rotated retrograde, that would explain a lot.
Originally posted by Ral of Tyr
The only thing east of the Tyr region is the Thri-Kreen lands that could have a sea that could have boiled away. If Athas rotated retrograde, that would explain a lot.
That would be west of the Tyr region, not east.
The sunrise sea/silt sea is east of the Tyr region, heh.
But to salvage some of my ideas, I would say that the Tyr region is in the norther latitudes, due to the clockwise wind that blows over the Ringing Mountians, unless the rotation is retrograde, which it would be in the Southern Hemisphere right?
Ral ~ right you are; that's what I get for typing at work...half awake....while phone calls are coming in....And I'm surfing on my squark.
Anyways, think he just confused West from East. Probably lives on the West coast, so he's used to seeing the sea on that side? Who knows.
Does anybody know of anything in the literature that would verify that
Yup, if the Tablelands are in the extreme latitudes, there wouldn't be any such notion as High Noon. The sun would never be 'directly' overhead, but neither would it appear very far off from that. Its only in the last 40 some degrees lat. that the sun begins to appear closer to the horizon. Since, presumably, the dead lands fill at least 20-30 degrees worth of the polar region, you woulnd't notice too much of a difference until you were around the same lat. as say, Celik.
According to the GenCon guys, the Deadlands were actually in the Tundra, close to the southern pole. Since I've never read of it being night for 24 hours (or light, either), there should be an explanation, so here goes:
1) Athas' star is much larger than our own sun, filling up several degrees of sky. It doesn't much matter if follows the same path as our own sun does, because it's so much larger that it's visible even when our own sun would be below the horizon.
2) The Tablelands are not as far south as we thought. This isn't to say that the Tundra, at one time, didn't start much closer to the equator. It's even possible that Athas, during the Green Age, was much colder than normal. Personally, I don't buy that, but it's a possibility.
There is high and low sun, however, there is little mention in the change of the day's length. Either the Tyr region is near the equator, enough to make it tropical, or Athas has little axial tilt.
PS: The east/west mix up was when I was sane and sober. It took a couple of beers for me to realize the mix up....and who says beer makes one stupid!
Neptune
*Uranus
No need to be rude.
I am fairly sure the Nth/Est/Sth/Wst clockwise positioning holds there as well.
Given that Nth/Sth is along the axis of rotation (and ignoring magnetic poles) and that rotation is counterclock wise when looking on the axis from the north.
If so then sunrise is still in the east. It is just that the seasons are far more pronounced. Ie the period and area of total darkness/light over the polar area becomes much greater.
No need to be rude.
Actually, I don't think Ral was bieng rude.
Its not Neptune that's in retrograde, its Uranus. But since the planet is also tilted about 90 degrees on its side, it would depend on which pole you consider to be the North (base) pole as to which direction the rotation cycle is in compared to earth.
Either way, it was funny. Then again, I'm rather simple like that.
(Edit)
Just for kicks, here's a little time elapsed vid clip from Hubble in case your not sure what Uranus' rotation is like (oh, and as an aside, I own a 1 mile plot of Uranus, just so I can go around saying "I own your butt."). A look at Uranus
Felixmeister was making a joke. After all, uranus can be netspeak for U R (an)
. "Did you know there are rings around uranus" "Help, there are Klingons on Uranus" etc.Just a fact, Uranus is on its side due to the fact a planetary object stuck it, causing the whole world to shatter and reform with it's axis tilted like that. That happened sometime after the Solar System had already long formed, so there was a tenth planet that was of great mass.
What gets me is the temperature differences on Athas. It can be 120 during the day....and close to freezing at night. That is rather odd. In Arizonia, when it reached 120 during the day (so hot my sunburn...burned from the heat) it would be around 90 or 80 at night. Near the Salton Sea, it would get around 105 during the day and about 70 just before dawn. In the California High Desert during the winter, it would get to be 80 during the day and around freezing at night. I just don't see Athas to be that cold at night.
I own a 1 mile plot of Uranus, just so I can go around saying "I own your butt.").
Heh heh heh - you got one of those too? My sis and my girlfried both own plots of land on Mars. Not sure what we'll do if the US send their robot probes into our territory. Probably have to start an interplanetary war or something. Which would be cool.
*cough*
Errr . . . damn, OT again.
I gotta stop doing that.
Back to the subject, which was, ah yes: Ebe. Ebe is somewhere under the waves of silt. In my opinion, it can be whereever the GM wants it to be in the Silt Sea and no one, Athas.org or anyone else, should touch it. If they do, make it a generic city, meaning you detail the city but do not reveal where it is. That way, we all gain useful info, but do not have to put it in a predefined spot. This would also be an advantage for GMs who have players who lurk on these boards or on the various websites.
To deserts: the US deserts are a bit odd. The Sahara desert, Gobi Desert, and so on are a bit more extreme in their temps. If the Athasian atmosphere were a bit thinner, and it should be with little water, temperature fluxuations could very well be extreme.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Back to the subject, which was, ah yes: Ebe. Ebe is somewhere under the waves of silt. In my opinion, it can be whereever the GM wants it to be in the Silt Sea and no one, Athas.org or anyone else, should touch it. If they do, make it a generic city, meaning you detail the city but do not reveal where it is. That way, we all gain useful info, but do not have to put it in a predefined spot. This would also be an advantage for GMs who have players who lurk on these boards or on the various websites.
It seemed better to me to do exactly the opposite. That is, I put Ebe in a specific place but didn't actually say anything about the city itself. If it's somewhere under the silt, exactly where doesn't make huge odds. However, exactly what people find there strikes me as what you want to leave open to the DM.
And can anybody tell me why there are trees at the bottom of the sea?
Huh? If your refering to the fact the in the Blue Age, the Tablelands were underwater while now that the ocean is gone there are forests, you have to remember that it still was some 14,000 years ago that the oceans began the recede. Hopefully that's what your asking about, otherwise, I'm a little lost.
I like Dawnstealer's notion of detailing the city, but never pinpointing its locale. I like plug and play ideas like that. This way, I can use it where ever I feel it suits the campaign at whatever time.
at the bottom of the sea of silt
I'm not sure what supplement or novel your refering to that talks about there being trees at the bottom of the silt sea. Could you be more specific?
But the silt sea is said to have expanded at one time, covering land, and I would bet that as a dessicated material silt makes for a good preserving agent.
So yeah, why not finding wooden trunks at the bottom of the silt sea...
i'm trying to stick with the "great island in the middle of the sea" idea
for Raam or Draj or even Balic (hey did anybody else get the impression that it was loosley based off of roman society?)
There was an interesting post on the old boards about this subject. If I remember right, this was the breakdown:
Urik - Babylonian. Even the name "Ur" is taken from this culture.
Draj - Aztec or mayan.
Balic - Roman. Definitely Roman.
Gulg - Think brazillian or african rain forest tribal.
Nibenay - Thai.
Raam - A mess. With "Raam" being an Indian name (from India), I'd say it's based on that culture. The existance of Badna would support this.
Tyr - Pro'lly Greek.
Eldaarich - Debatable, but I'd say it's something out of an orwellian-style fantasy. Think "Bladerunner on Athas" and I think you'd be close. Paranoia, darkness, evil, chaotic. This dude was wacked-out enough to make an assassination plot on Borys for collecting the tribute. That city is one screwed up place to live.
Kurn - Ewok city. Just fill the whole thing with ewoks and smurfs and call it good.
Kurn - Ewok city. Just fill the whole thing with ewoks and smurfs and call it good.
lol! Stop! Your killin' me here!
Then again, maybe you haven't read Brax's article called Wisdom of the Drylanders (find it here ). It presents the inhabitants of Kurn as paranoid and secretive in the extreme, but for different reasons than the people ruled by Draskinor. Makes the city of Kurn less 'light and fluffy'.
Originally posted by Kamelion
Heh heh heh - you got one of those too? My sis and my girlfried both own plots of land on Mars. Not sure what we'll do if the US send their robot probes into our territory. Probably have to start an interplanetary war or something. Which would be cool.
Ok, where are you guys getting this stuff at? LOL
Originally posted by Kamelion
It's here. Galactic conquest can be yours...
Oh my, lol.
Ewoks = halflings. It's not a coincidence. Think of Troy's background.
Actually, the site that Kam listed is the only legit site selling 'galactic property'. I just wanted the papers for uranus and unfortunately, The Lunar Embassy hasn't started putting that particular floating ball of mush up for sale yet. I will be getting some claims on mars though, within the next year.
We're giving you a whole square mile of Uranus! That's a whole lot of Uranus to explore, live on and penetrate!
That's pretty bad.
Back to the topic or have we covered it? We're talking about the societies of the various city-states now. New thread?
not troy, not richard, not anybody wrote anything in the cannon about where it may be... its just lying on a post-it labeled "the info they all want and we wont give 'em"
right next to rajaats stats(not that we all want them, but they would be cool to most of us)
(too easy, after those "uranus" posts, so I'll give a straight answer)
1) Mud Palace. It makes sense - obviously a rich city, loads of undead (from a Dragon draining them, mayhaps?). Also surrounded by silt, so it's possible it was buried at one time. A few other things that make it a plus in my book is the fact that there is no name associated with it and it's has mountains near by.
Here's why the name (or lack thereof) is important: Borys would want any part of his history wiped from memory. Sure, he probably cleaned the place out pretty well, but what if someone found something that put him at a disadvantage? Not good. Not good at all when you're keeping a living god under lock and key and have little time for interlopers. Could work.
Mountains. Mountains are a big part of my take on Borys. Why did he hate dwarves so much? My feeling is that he lived in a city (Ebe) that traded regularly with dwarves and that the dwarves were greedy (as dwarves are known to be) or lorded over the city in such a way as to create a great deal of animosity. While no dwarven city in mountains near the Mud Palace is documented, that doesn't mean it isn't there. It's logical and could work for a campaign.
2) Tarelon. Could work as Ebe. Maybe Tarelon was the elvish name? It's a reach, but could work. Usually an answer lies in plain sight, and it's reasonable to think that Ebe didn't so much disappear as be renamed.
3) The mudflats out beyond Arkhold. This is a good location because there is clearly water coming up from below. Since most of the cities were built near fresh water sources (I'm assuming the Sunrise Sea was salt water), it's reasonable to assume that maybe some of that water still exists and bubbles to the surface. Maybe Ebe was covered by silt, but then a buried fountain cracked, a well sprung open, or whatever, and is now buried beneath the mud. Something poetic about that.
4) Somewhere off the coast of Lake Island. Just a stab in the dark here. Just looking at the spacing of the city states and former cities, this would make sense, as would the nearby source of water. Maybe Ebe was a Crete-like society.
These are all just guesses based on what little information there is, the distance between city-states, and pure guesswork. Use or discard as you like.
As for official word, don't hold your breath: I strongly suspect there is no canon that points to where Ebe is actually located. Maybe it was to be detailed at some point in the far future, but TSR probably never got around to it. For now, it's just one of the mysteries of Athas. Think of Ebe as the Atlantis of Athas.
One last thing: canon vs. cannon (no insult intended here, I've just seen this a few times, so am commenting). A cannon is a gun, canon is rule or law.
Originally posted by kefka
right next to rajaats stats(not that we all want them, but they would be cool to most of us)
Another project in the back recesses of my warped mind.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
After he bacame the Dragon, and the Cleansing Wars were officially over, he came back to Kamelok and killed all the dwarves anyway. I think that would qualify.
That doesn't mean he hated them. He may have returned in his Dragon-madness. I don't really remember... I am re-reading the Prism Pentad right now. When I get to that part in The Crimson Legion I'll let you know ;)
It would be more logical to say he returned after the end of the madness, since it is said the dwarves had managed (they can't if their all dead) to steal the Dark Lens. I wouln't see that happening any other time than during the madness, since the SKs were too busy trying not to be killed to notice things happening, like the wards over Rajaat's remains and prison weakening, somebody stealing the Lens at the Tower and getting changed into giants, that sort of thing...
;)
Or did it say in the Pentad that the two dwarven knights were the last survivors of Kemalok?
That doesn't mean he hated them. He may have returned in his Dragon-madness.
I have to agree with Erasmus1634 on this. I don't believe the SKs actually hated their target race at first. They were in it for the rewards. That being said, Borys may have returned to Kemalok out of a grudge he had against that city and its people. I mean, they did almost kill him (I would be a little vengeful for that). As for where I believe Ebe is... I don't think it is in the "known region" of Athas at all. It may have been intended for a future map of Athas as of yet unknown. Doing so would ensure the validity of the new map by basing it on historical evidence. I believe it to be on the other side of the Silt Sea. Possible hundreds of miles so.