Shadowdancer PrC?? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Shadowdancer PrC??

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
XIII
Dec 07, 2003 11:25:53 Question :

I was reading the DMG and the DL board and a question popped in my mind (woah! dont happen much these days!)

Wouldnt the Shadowdancer PrC being connected to an evil god?
i mean they get to summon shadow... which are negative plane monster... or am i wrong? Getting the Shadowdancer PrC might be a favor from Chemosh to the players, since his portfolio is Death, Undead and murder...

Just an idea i had...

feel free to comment.

I do know that being a Shadowdancer doesnt mean you are evil, but it seems that in DL, if you are doing evil things, you ARE evil, no?

Asking this because i have a player who is thinking about taking Shadowdancer PrC in a few lv.

XIII
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 07, 2003 12:13:29 This would depend entirely on your view of the alignment system and it's effect in game. Simply taken on its own, summoning a shadow is evil, since you're summoning a being of negative energy. But, using a negative energy ray would then also be an evil act. That would be how I believe it stands, since I think of negative energy as being a kind of manifestation of evil in and of itself.

Still, some people maintain that simply channeling this type of energy is not evil, even if the source is. If you use it towards good ends, then it is good, much like you wouldn't consider a sword good or evil, but a tool to be used. A shadowdancer's summoned shadow would be such a tool.

If you are uncomfortable with giving a player the summon shadow ability because you believe in the first version of negative energy, just take it away, or say that it's not created from negative energy, and come up with alternative stats for it depending on what you use instead of 'undead' as a base descriptor. You might not even have to have them necessarily worship Chemosh, but let them at least respect and thank him for granting them this shadow. the shadow itself might be reluctant to help in battling other undead, though.

Remember, neutral people can get away with using 'evil' tools, because they stand between the light and dark, much as the shadowdancers themselves do. And as there are going to be shadowdancers who are evil, there are going to be good ones too, but even these are never going to be 'pure', just mean well.
#3
cam_banks
Dec 07, 2003 15:12:08 There are a number of other ways to look at shadowdancers. Shadow creatures are traditionally linekd to Chaos in Dragonlance - shadow wights, shadow dragons, and so forth. A shadowdancer may have acquired his powers through some ritual that awakens chaotic traits within the character, linking them to the Plane of Shadow. Also, since the negative material plane is tightly linked to the Abyss, it's possible the character has unknowingly made a pact with Hiddukel or Chemosh - or even Nuitari.

Your instincts are probably right regarding the alignment issue. Simply put, there are not a lot of good-aligned characters who will approve of somebody summoning a shadow. Neither the gods of light or the gods of balance draw upon shadows and negative energy with any frequency, so the player will have to deal with the consequences of their character making this kind of connection with powerful evil forces.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
talinthas
Dec 07, 2003 18:45:08 Personally, i adore the shadowdancer PrC. In my vision of krynn, they arose after the chaos war, resulting from people touched by various ambient energies. Also with the loss of gods, i see the shadowdancer order as being a fusion of bards from all three groups who found themselves powerless but for their sorcery.

Because its a fifth age thing, i dont see the need to pigeonhole their alignment, but certainly they would have to be leaning towards chaos, whatever the other half is. I could see a chaotic good shadowdancer, using the powers of the shadow to try to help the weak, spy for resistance organisations, etc. A CN shadowdancer would flit about in the shadows just trying to survive, while CE would probably be all about malicious drainings and such, perhaps trying to become a shadow wight themselves, or working for/with agents of Chaos.

For me, the shadowdancer is incredibly flavorful, especially in the post WoS era. Branchala comes back to find that some of his most devout followers have become chaos touched. How will his clergy of pure bards deal with these new beings of shadow and sorcery? Especially with their illusionary performances?

The neutral bards of Zivlyn would worry about the dichotomy of law and chaos when dealing with these shadowcreatures, and Hiddukel's peformers would want a piece of the action, especially in the void created by the loss of tak and chaos.
#5
XIII
Dec 07, 2003 21:53:58 I am glad to hear some other opinions, the part about chaos is nice, didnt thought of that!

Thanks a lot for your answers, they helped me get a better feeling of the PrC.

I do like shadowdancer, i think it will add a twist to my game =)

XIII

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 XIII Dec 07, 2003 11:25:53	Question : I was reading the DMG and the DL board and a question popped in my mind (woah! dont happen much these days!) Wouldnt the Shadowdancer PrC being connected to an evil god? i mean they get to summon shadow... which are negative plane monster... or am i wrong? Getting the Shadowdancer PrC might be a favor from Chemosh to the players, since his portfolio is Death, Undead and murder... Just an idea i had... feel free to comment. I do know that being a Shadowdancer doesnt mean you are evil, but it seems that in DL, if you are doing evil things, you ARE evil, no? Asking this because i have a player who is thinking about taking Shadowdancer PrC in a few lv. XIII
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 07, 2003 12:13:29	This would depend entirely on your view of the alignment system and it's effect in game. Simply taken on its own, summoning a shadow is evil, since you're summoning a being of negative energy. But, using a negative energy ray would then also be an evil act. That would be how I believe it stands, since I think of negative energy as being a kind of manifestation of evil in and of itself. Still, some people maintain that simply channeling this type of energy is not evil, even if the source is. If you use it towards good ends, then it is good, much like you wouldn't consider a sword good or evil, but a tool to be used. A shadowdancer's summoned shadow would be such a tool. If you are uncomfortable with giving a player the summon shadow ability because you believe in the first version of negative energy, just take it away, or say that it's not created from negative energy, and come up with alternative stats for it depending on what you use instead of 'undead' as a base descriptor. You might not even have to have them necessarily worship Chemosh, but let them at least respect and thank him for granting them this shadow. the shadow itself might be reluctant to help in battling other undead, though. Remember, neutral people can get away with using 'evil' tools, because they stand between the light and dark, much as the shadowdancers themselves do. And as there are going to be shadowdancers who are evil, there are going to be good ones too, but even these are never going to be 'pure', just mean well.
#3 cam_banks Dec 07, 2003 15:12:08	There are a number of other ways to look at shadowdancers. Shadow creatures are traditionally linekd to Chaos in Dragonlance - shadow wights, shadow dragons, and so forth. A shadowdancer may have acquired his powers through some ritual that awakens chaotic traits within the character, linking them to the Plane of Shadow. Also, since the negative material plane is tightly linked to the Abyss, it's possible the character has unknowingly made a pact with Hiddukel or Chemosh - or even Nuitari. Your instincts are probably right regarding the alignment issue. Simply put, there are not a lot of good-aligned characters who will approve of somebody summoning a shadow. Neither the gods of light or the gods of balance draw upon shadows and negative energy with any frequency, so the player will have to deal with the consequences of their character making this kind of connection with powerful evil forces. Cheers, Cam
#4 talinthas Dec 07, 2003 18:45:08	Personally, i adore the shadowdancer PrC. In my vision of krynn, they arose after the chaos war, resulting from people touched by various ambient energies. Also with the loss of gods, i see the shadowdancer order as being a fusion of bards from all three groups who found themselves powerless but for their sorcery. Because its a fifth age thing, i dont see the need to pigeonhole their alignment, but certainly they would have to be leaning towards chaos, whatever the other half is. I could see a chaotic good shadowdancer, using the powers of the shadow to try to help the weak, spy for resistance organisations, etc. A CN shadowdancer would flit about in the shadows just trying to survive, while CE would probably be all about malicious drainings and such, perhaps trying to become a shadow wight themselves, or working for/with agents of Chaos. For me, the shadowdancer is incredibly flavorful, especially in the post WoS era. Branchala comes back to find that some of his most devout followers have become chaos touched. How will his clergy of pure bards deal with these new beings of shadow and sorcery? Especially with their illusionary performances? The neutral bards of Zivlyn would worry about the dichotomy of law and chaos when dealing with these shadowcreatures, and Hiddukel's peformers would want a piece of the action, especially in the void created by the loss of tak and chaos.
#5 XIII Dec 07, 2003 21:53:58	I am glad to hear some other opinions, the part about chaos is nice, didnt thought of that! Thanks a lot for your answers, they helped me get a better feeling of the PrC. I do like shadowdancer, i think it will add a twist to my game =) XIII