Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I am curious, does Sovereign Press have plans on releasing an Age of Mortals sourcebook for the earlier Fifth Age timeline. There are still those out there who enjoyed the struggle against the big-bad Dragon Overlords (Khellendros, Malyx, Beryll).
Age of Mortals is designed to cover the entirety of the 5th age. I doubt there will be any further sourcebooks on the era.
However, I do imagine that they would go into greater depth on some of the elements from that era, such as dragons, spawn, the Legion of Steel, etc.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Age of Mortals is designed to cover the entirety of the 5th age. I doubt there will be any further sourcebooks on the era.
Well...they did miss some key elements if that was the case.
Like...oh...the Dragonlords. LOL!
Seriously though, we still don't have any stats anywhere (book or web-enhancement) for Gellidus, Pyrothraxus, Stenndunuus, Iyesta, Brineselldimmer, or Cyan Bloodbane.
It's kinda hard to have a pre-WoS anti-Dragon Overlord/Dragonlord campaign without those stats. And it could probably stand to use a few more NPCs, too.
(although the Cities, Strongholds, and Ruins section has quite a few)Oh yeah...and a pre-WoS map would be helpful, too (political map that is).
So, it definately is lacking in critical pre-WoS information. But, I'm guessing say that most people who want to game in that era probably have more than enough info from the SAGA books to run a campaign. But then again...that is just me and my opinion that they don't have to keep re-doing old products...move forward, I say. heh heh
Second, we're heading into DL's 20th anniversary. This, in turn, puts the focus back on Chronicles and the WotL.
I don't think the early 5th age has been forgotten by any means. It just doesn't fit with immediate plans.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Seriously though, we still don't have any stats anywhere (book or web-enhancement) for Gellidus, Pyrothraxus, Stenndunuus, Iyesta, Brineselldimmer, or Cyan Bloodbane.
Some of those may be earmarked for other books or supplements or even web enhancements, but Brine/Brynseldemir has already been covered. He's in the Age of Mortals book, which is also where sea dragons are described in 3.5 terms.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
But Brine/Brynseldemir has already been covered. He's in the Age of Mortals book, which is also where sea dragons are described in 3.5 terms.
Was that specifically Brine? I thought it was just an entry on Sea Dragons in general.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Was that specifically Brine? I thought it was just an entry on Sea Dragons in general.
Both are in there. Take another look.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Consider a couple of things, though. First, the focus of late is on the modern-day era.
Hey, I'm not disputing that at all. Like I said, move forward, on ward, blah blah blah.
What I was saying was that it was incorrect to say "Age of Mortals is designed to cover the entirety of the 5th age" because it's not. Or if it was, it was really lacking in (what I would think would be) some key areas.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Some of those may be earmarked for other books or supplements or even web enhancements
Okay, that's fine...but that proves my point that the AoM book was not designed to be a complete 5th Age source book...it is specifically geared towards post-WoS...which is fine with me. But we shouldn't call it what it's not.
Originally posted by Brimstone
.Okay, that's fine...but that proves my point that the AoM book was not designed to be a complete 5th Age source book...it is specifically geared towards post-WoS...which is fine with me. But we shouldn't call it what it's not.
There's a lot in there which is next to useless in the post-WoS period, from the magic drain and soul leeching stuff which was the cause of early sorcery and mysticism being weaker than High Sorcery and clerical magic from previous ages, to statistics for Malys, Sable, and Skie. Brine's dead, too. Rig and Fiona aren't any good to you in the post-WoS period. Even some of the prestige classes are more appropriate prior to the return of the Gods, such as the Academy Sorcerer and Citadel Mystic.
I think there are any number of things you can cite as missing from the book, but it really does present all that you need for a pre-WoS campaign. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I think there are any number of things you can cite as missing from the book, but it really does present all that you need for a pre-WoS campaign. The rest is just icing on the cake.
I disagree with that. I don't think it has enough information for a full pre-WoS campaign...not by itself anyway.
However, having said that...I'm going to end this debate, because this isn't what I want to discuss. I'm not going to be that guy who can't accept change and move on...and this debate is making me sound like that (cause I'm apparently not getting my point across very well...and people seem to be jumping to conclusions about my motives).
Anyway...it's just a matter of opinion, apparently.
Originally posted by Brimstone
I disagree with that. I don't think it has enough information for a full pre-WoS campaign...not by itself anyway.
I don't think you're refusing to accept change, but I would like to know what else you think the Age of Mortals sourcebook needs to satisfy your requirements. If the original adventures (from the various boxed sets) were compiled together and made into one campaign, would that allow for additional information? What sort of information does a DM need that isn't otherwise available from other products?
Cheers,
Cam
A map would also be nice, but for those of us who have the Fifth Age products not a necessity. But new players likely won’t have them, and all of those old box sets are out of print. The stats for Chaos creatures are also missing, but I expect to find those in the upcoming Bestiary. Fifth Age also had enough character templates to fill a new book of it’s own with prestige classes.
Dragonlance should be about moving forward now of course, but I love just about every period, and if it where up to me I would have a team working on a sourcebook for every playable Era of Krynn. No matter how long this endeavor takes.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Fifth Age also had enough character templates to fill a new book of it’s own with prestige classes.
Many of those have been made into prestige classes, or can be replicated through multiclassing. I was surprised that Sov. Press did a spellfilch, when a sorcerer/rogue would have covered that. *shrugs*
The big one that hasn't been covered yet is the dragon mage (or mystic!), which may be awaiting some future supplement. The other one I noticed wasn't there was the Dwarf Earth Mystic. Granted, you can take on dwarf, add the mystic class, and choose Earth as your domain for this.
In my mind, the roles of SAGA was one of the best parts of that gaming line.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
As Brimstone points out the stats for the majority of the minor Dragon Overlords are missing; Fenalysten, Mohrlex, Pyro, etc.
The dragonlords (with the exception of Stendunuus, Iyesta, and Pyrothraxus) are all detailed in the DLCS web enhancement on the WOTC site.
Fifth Age also had enough character templates to fill a new book of it’s own with prestige classes.
Three guesses where most of the prestige classes in the Age of Mortals sourcebook came from.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
What sort of information does a DM need that isn't otherwise available from other products?
That's exactly my point. You need other products for the complete pre-WoS picture.
That's all I was saying...was that the AoM couldn't stand on it's own and paint a full and accurate picture of the pre-WoS 5th Age.
Everything (well, almost everything) in the AoM book is depicted in the present tense (as it should be). But because of that...you don't get all the info you need to play in an early 5th Age campaign. Stats for some critical dragons are missing, there's no political map for the time frame, no real information on the interactions between the different nations and dragons they way they were prior to DoaNA. And there is very little (if any) information on the time frame between DoaNA and WoS on what's been going on politically...specifically with the dragons.
No, I very much believe that the AoM book is a informational guide on what is needed to run a campaign in the post-WoS era.
And as you say, the information needed to run a pre-WoS game is available in other products...but that is not what we are debating here. Baron asked if there is going to be more information to be released (product, web, or otherwise) on the pre-WoS timeframe, because he needed more to run a campaign than what was presented in the AoM book. Trampas said the AoM book was designed to cover the entirety of the 5th Age. And I was disagreeing with that. AoM as a sole entity is not enough to do so...otherwise, Baron wouldn't be asking for more information.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Cam, stop fighting it man, Age of Mortals is a great book, in fact I loved it more than the Campaign Setting, but it is not by itself the definite complete sourcebook for an early Fifth Age campaign. And it shouldn’t be anyway; it’s mainly meant to bring us up to date after the War of Souls.
Hey, I didn't roll for initiative. I was just asking for some clarification on what was missing. It's the sort of thing I like to take note of.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Cam, stop fighting it man, Age of Mortals is a great book, in fact I loved it more than the Campaign Setting, but it is not by itself the definite complete sourcebook for an early Fifth Age campaign. And it shouldn’t be anyway; it’s mainly meant to bring us up to date after the War of Souls.
To cover all of the SAGA products in one volume would be nigh-impossible, yes. I do think that there is enough info in AoM to run a pre-WoS campaign. I do see the point about wanting more in-depth detail on that time period, though.
Anyway, to get back on topic....what other things from the SAGA/5th Age products would you guys like to see more detail on?
I would like to see an in depth look into the Academy of Sorcery, the Citadel of Light, and the draconian nation of Teyr. A whole chapter just dedicated to sorcerers and mystics could be loaded not just with flavor text but also with feats and variant rules for the sorcerer and mystic to give them more of the old Fifth Age flare. I’m not saying whole new rules, just enhancements to the existing ones. And of course, the Dragon Mage and Mystic would be very, very nice.
Seriously though, we still don't have any stats anywhere (book or web-enhancement) for Gellidus, Pyrothraxus, Stenndunuus, Iyesta, Brineselldimmer, or Cyan Bloodbane.
There was a post a while back with stats for Cyan. I think it was "Cyan Bloodbane [write up]" or something like that. They weren't official but looked good to me.
Originally posted by Tasslehoff the Great
There was a post a while back with stats for Cyan. I think it was "Cyan Bloodbane [write up]" or something like that. They weren't official but looked good to me.
Okay....
That's fine and all, but I think your missing the point. ;)
Originally posted by Brimstone
Okay....
That's fine and all, but I think your missing the point. ;)
What I don't get is why you would feel the need to have stats for Cyan Bloodbane in the AoM. Seriously, he appears as a dragon only long enough to die. Otherwise he is just your average elf. As for Pyrothraxus, Stenndunuus, Iyesta, etc, they would have been nice to have, but Pyro has gone nuts, and *spoilers no space because it would screw the paragraph up* Thunder and Splendor are MIA. Gellidus was omitted because bigger plans were in store for him.
I was [b]NOT[/b] saying what I thought belonged in the AoM book. I was giving some examples of what was needed for an All Encompassing 5th Age Source Book (which, to me, it clearly is not). But, someone said it was earlier...I disagree with them, and Cam wanted some examples as to why I thought the way I did.
We're not debating what the AoM should have been/included. We're debating what the AoM is/included.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Okay...I guess I have to explain this one more time...
I was [b]NOT saying what I thought belonged in the AoM book. I was giving some examples of what was needed for an All Encompassing 5th Age Source Book (which, to me, it clearly is not). But, someone said it was earlier...I disagree with them, and Cam wanted some examples as to why I thought the way I did.
We're not debating what the AoM should have been/included. We're debating what the AoM is/included. [/b]
Ease up there, Brim. I don’t think anyone is questioning what your motives were. The conversation just evolved, as they often do.
That's fine and all, but I think your missing the point.
Yea thats what happens when you skim the post. Oops.