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Who is the mysterious leader of the Goblins?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 09, 2003 12:00:12 After the war of souls a mysterious leader organizes the goblins and moves south to take control of southern Qualinesti. But I can't find any place in the DLCS that actually says who he is.
It is really important to me to find out as I'm about to launch a campaign where the players need to help some qualinesti elves fight the goblins to reclaim qualinesti.

I have soem plans, but I need to know more about that mysterious leader of the goblins.

PLEASE HELP!!!!
#2
The_White_Sorcerer
Dec 09, 2003 12:13:41 I think it might be captain Samuval. At least he's leading some sort of army in Qualinesti.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 09, 2003 12:17:08 Nah, It says in the DLCS that Capatain Samuval has taken control of Northern Qualinesti, but the goblins have been organized by a mysterious leader who is moving them south to conquer southern Qualinesti. (page 173 - "Elves - a people in exile", first paragraph).

I thought maybe he was mentioned in one of the novels (I only ever read the 4th age stuff) or maybe he was stated elsewhere in the DLCS.
#4
jonesy
Dec 09, 2003 12:20:46 I am the mysterious leader of the goblins!

I think he might be mentioned in future novels or gaming material.
#5
cam_banks
Dec 09, 2003 12:23:01
Originally posted by Eylwn Highmoon

I have soem plans, but I need to know more about that mysterious leader of the goblins.

Well, put it this way - who would you have be the mysterious leader of the goblins?

Cheers,
Cam
#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 09, 2003 12:38:05 MY PLAYERS DON'T READ!!!! (That's you MadMaxim!!!)

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So far I have been cooking up plans with an ancient green dragon who has hidden in the southern qualinesti during the dragon purge and now with Berryl dead, he has crawled out from hiding and is eager to claim the ravaged qualinesti for his own.
Taking the shape of a human (hiding his dragon features with a cloak) he acts under an alias, as a mysterious wizard who now leads the goblins to the southern qualinesti in an attempt to claim it for his own.
That's where the players come in, so I won't go into details about it here.
#7
zombiegleemax
Dec 09, 2003 12:42:24 maybe it's a death knight Lord Toede? *EG*
#8
brimstone
Dec 09, 2003 13:09:45 What about Porthios. heh heh

:D

Well, whoever it is...I have a feeling we'll get some more information in Lake of Death...I hope.
#9
The_White_Sorcerer
Dec 09, 2003 13:11:58
Originally posted by Eylwn Highmoon
Nah, It says in the DLCS that Capatain Samuval has taken control of Northern Qualinesti, but the goblins have been organized by a mysterious leader who is moving them south to conquer southern Qualinesti. (page 173 - "Elves - a people in exile", first paragraph).

Ah, my mistake then. I only remembered something about a goblin army and Samuval leading an army of some kind so I mixed those up.
#10
silvanthalas
Dec 09, 2003 13:21:56 The thing that's amusing about this situation is that everybody likes to put good characters (Samuval, Porthios) in charge of an army of evil goblins.

But hey, if this is a mystery that doesn't get resolved for awhile, that's fine with me, seeing as how I liked all the mysteries the SAGA game products presented.
#11
brimstone
Dec 09, 2003 13:22:55
Originally posted by silvanthalas
But hey, if this is a mystery that doesn't get resolved for awhile, that's fine with me, seeing as how I liked all the mysteries the SAGA game products presented.

Yeah...too bad most of them were never answered (or at least, answered attiquately/realistically)
#12
ferratus
Dec 09, 2003 13:53:01 There are good mysteries and bad mysteries though. For example, this mystery pretty much paralyzes a campaign that wants to be in the flow of official continuity from using the goblins. A goblin army led by Porthios is going to be vastly different from the ones that use a green dragonspawn leader.

A better idea would have been to let us know who the leader is, but leave his plans a mystery. That would allow me to do a bunch of smaller adventures using the goblins, but leave the surprise of his ultimate plan to the eventual novel or game supplement.
#13
silvanthalas
Dec 09, 2003 14:49:13
Originally posted by ferratus
There are good mysteries and bad mysteries though. For example, this mystery pretty much paralyzes a campaign that wants to be in the flow of official continuity from using the goblins.

Well, unless you plan on wiping out the entire army, I don't see how it completely paralyzes a campaign.

But these kind of things (ie, leadership mysteries, the "real" agenda of a character, etc) are going to present regardless, so I would think most people know how to work with/around these kinds of situations.
#14
cam_banks
Dec 09, 2003 14:52:33 There are two kinds of people, clearly.

People who like to have mysterious things left undecided, unwritten, or unexplained, and just go to town with it for their own campaigns or wait until it eventually does get explained in some novel or another;

And people who want all the secrets, plotlines, ambitions, goals, fates and desires of characters and locations in a setting to be spelled out, even if only to them, so that they don't have to worry about conflicting with what anybody else says about it.

There's merit to both, but the former sells books, and the latter pretty much puts the kibosh on any anticipation or tension, which is one of the real drawcards to fiction and drama.

Cheers,
Cam
#15
shugi
Dec 09, 2003 15:24:54 I know what I've already set up in southern Qualinesti... the goblin "tribes" are led by hobgoblin green dragonspawn, who in turn have a sorcerous leader. Maybe that'll help you out.
#16
brimstone
Dec 09, 2003 15:38:39
Originally posted by Cam Banks
There's merit to both, but the former sells books, and the latter pretty much puts the kibosh on any anticipation or tension, which is one of the real drawcards to fiction and drama.

True...but never-ending, open ended mysteries is a crappy way to write fiction. Can be good for gamers...but for someone who does nothing but read the fiction, it can be very frustrating.
#17
cam_banks
Dec 09, 2003 15:43:08
Originally posted by Brimstone
True...but never-ending, open ended mysteries is a crappy way to write fiction. Can be good for gamers...but for someone who does nothing but read the fiction, it can be very frustrating.

Oh, I agree. But you don't show all your cards at once.

Imagine the following: "Introducing Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis' newest trilogy, the War of Souls! This trilogy features the return of Takhisis!"

That'd go down well.

Cheers,
Cam
#18
brimstone
Dec 09, 2003 15:59:38
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Imagine the following: "Introducing Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis' newest trilogy, the War of Souls! This trilogy features the return of Takhisis!"

I agree completely.

But...the 5th Age featured several mysteries that have never been solved...and it's 8 years later. That's taking it a bit far, don't you think?

Now, not all mysteries need an answer (good example is "Who is Astinus?") but most do. Otherwise, they're just an annoyance.
#19
kipper_snifferdoo_02
Dec 09, 2003 16:01:11
Originally posted by silvanthalas
But these kind of things (ie, leadership mysteries, the "real" agenda of a character, etc) are going to present regardless, so I would think most people know how to work with/around these kinds of situations.

Well I would like to know who it is, but I have to agree that there are work arounds for now. The "mysterious leader" you make now could certainly serve the "REAL" mysterious leader down the road once they have finally released who it is, or once they reveal the leader's identity the leader could either usurp the power from your villian or replace him if the party has killed your bad guy. There are a number of ways to deal with it.
#20
silvanthalas
Dec 09, 2003 16:38:18
Originally posted by Brimstone

But...the 5th Age featured several mysteries that have never been solved...and it's 8 years later. That's taking it a bit far, don't you think?

And you realize this wouldn't have happened had SAGA & all 5th Age development not ended with the announcement of WoS?

I mean, I went back through afdl stuff one time and found a comment from Steve Miller back in '98 that they had plans to bring the minotaurs to the forefront.

Now, not all mysteries need an answer (good example is "Who is Astinus?") but most do. Otherwise, they're just an annoyance.

This is true, but it's the struggle of the games versus novels to find the balance.

Now, Jean has an upcoming book that presumably will deal with what's left of Qualinesti (it is called Lake of Death after all), so maybe we'll get some info there about the goblins.

But for Dragonlance to succeed, there will likely have to be things that are over-arching for both, but then the individual stories for each. Mysteries and such that each side will explore for the other.
#21
brimstone
Dec 09, 2003 16:43:56
Originally posted by silvanthalas
And you realize this wouldn't have happened had SAGA & all 5th Age development not ended with the announcement of WoS?

Of course. And then War of Souls changed some stuff that had already been established.

Sure would be interesting to know where they were going with some of those 5th Age threads...like the Shadow Sorcerer and the Sage...the Herald, the "alien" dragons. Khellendros and the Grey.

Ah well...guess we'll never know.
#22
silvanthalas
Dec 09, 2003 18:56:14
Originally posted by Brimstone
Ah well...guess we'll never know.

Well, apparently at least one person (not me) has gotten to take a look at the stuff Stan! still had, and it was apparently interesting.

Of course, I've tried to bug Stan! myself about it in the past and he wouldn't say anything.
#23
ferratus
Dec 10, 2003 1:06:59
Originally posted by Cam Banks
There are two kinds of people, clearly.

People who like to have mysterious things left undecided, unwritten, or unexplained, and just go to town with it for their own campaigns or wait until it eventually does get explained in some novel or another;

And people who want all the secrets, plotlines, ambitions, goals, fates and desires of characters and locations in a setting to be spelled out, even if only to them, so that they don't have to worry about conflicting with what anybody else says about it.

There's merit to both, but the former sells books, and the latter pretty much puts the kibosh on any anticipation or tension, which is one of the real drawcards to fiction and drama.

I don't think that everything should be spelled out. Yes, a good geo-political guide is a must, but I want mysteries and dramatic tension just like everyone else. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

Who Astinus is, is a nice little mystery, because we know what Astinus does.

For the goblin leader, if you were going to keep his identity a secret, it would have been nice if we would have been given a little glimpse of what the goblins he commands are doing, or what their focus is. Are they whipped into a religious frenzy? Are they planning an invasion? Are they making alliances with the elves? Dwarves? Seekers?

Or you can do the reverse and let us know the leader, but keep his plans and the activities of the goblins under wraps. Then you can have an idea to what kind of activities that the leader would be up to for your own campaigns, but still leave the storyline for that big adventure or novel a surprise.

See, you want to keep mystery, but you do not want so much mystery that you have no adventure hooks. That was a lot of the problem with the 5th Age sourcebooks.
#24
zombiegleemax
Dec 10, 2003 1:11:36 Okay, here is a bit more detailed info on what I'v planned for this campaign so far.

MY PLAYERS DON'T READ!!!!! (MadMaxim!!!)

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The Green Dragon Mneorax (Known as Jade or Acid) was quick to hide in a deep lair in the southern qualinesti when the Dragon Purge began. Knowing that he could not hope to defeat Beryll, he hid away plotting and planning for the future. Now that Beryll and the other Dragon Overlords are dead, Mneorax has creeped out from his lair to find Qualinesti ravaged.
Mneorax (I'm going for an ancient green dragon with a few spellcaster levels) is quick to seize the opportunity to take control of Qualinesti, but knowing how the world regards dragons no, he needs a secret way of taking the power.
Shapeshifted into a human, he is roaming all of Qualinesti, disguising himself as a robed (to hide what little dragonfeatures he may have as a human) qizard named Leafwind, he is organizing the goblin tribes into a massive army, herding them southward to begin his conquest of Qualinesti.

The campaign also has Mneorax gaining the aid of evil druids, and the players are supposed to help a Qualinesti elven army based in Wayend (having sailed in from Qualimori) to defeat the goblin army and allow the elves to reclaim some part of their former nation. I'm thinking about having Valthonis join the fight at some point as well, but that's not until nigh level 18 or so.
Since the Tower of High Sorcery is at Wayreth, I'm starting out the campaign by having a Red Robed Wizard from Wayreth hire the players in Qualimori to sail with him to Wayend, and on the way they'll get hammered by an elder Water elemental summoned by some of those evil druids, and then the players will wash ashore on their own at the southern Qualinesti beaches far from Wayend.
#25
talinthas
Dec 10, 2003 2:11:51 Frank and I got to see what the fifth age team had planned for their story arc when i went to Seattle last year. It was such an awesome story that i cried knowing that wos had usurped it.

But then i came home and read WoS three, and realised that i liked the world as it stood, especially since i now knew what parts W&H kept from the original design.

No use crying for what might have been, when what is is really good.
#26
ferratus
Dec 10, 2003 4:08:24
Originally posted by talinthas

But then i came home and read WoS three, and realised that i liked the world as it stood, especially since i now knew what parts W&H kept from the original design.

I'm not so interested in the story, but I would have liked to know what the end result of the world would have been. Would they have gotten rid of the dragon overlords and reduced some the wastelands? Would they have rebuilt some of the cities, or given some place where people could live with some sort of security?
#27
brimstone
Dec 10, 2003 10:34:48
Originally posted by silvanthalas
Well, apparently at least one person (not me) has gotten to take a look at the stuff Stan! still had, and it was apparently interesting.

I know...but he's remaining pretty tight lipped about it. So...I guess I'll rephrase to say that most of us will never know.
#28
daedavias_dup
Dec 10, 2003 10:39:32
Originally posted by Brimstone
I know...but he's remaining pretty tight lipped about it. So...I guess I'll rephrase to say that most of us will never know.

Does anyone know Chinese nipple torture? We could always wrestle the info out of him that way

It is probably someone that we have never heard of before.
#29
brimstone
Dec 10, 2003 10:40:32
Originally posted by Daedavias
Does anyone know Chinese nipple torture? We could always wrestle the info out of him that way

It is probably someone that we have never heard of before.

No...it's Tal. (see above)

And apparently the Wanderer, too...I didn't realize he knew also.
#30
daedavias_dup
Dec 10, 2003 10:43:12
Originally posted by Brimstone
No...it's Tal. (see above)

And apparently the Wanderer, too...I didn't realize he knew also.

Ooooh, it all makes sense now:D
#31
kalanth
Dec 10, 2003 11:10:34 In my campaign, the mysterious leader of the Goblins is a Death Knight Bozak Draconian. Figured this would be an interesting mix of things and certainly a powerful creature. The characters have fought him once, and worked with him on another occasion, but no one in the world believes them when they try to explain that a Death Knight is taking the forest, because the people believe that with the **SPOILER**

death of Lord Soth, that must mean that there are no more death knights in the world.
#32
silvanthalas
Dec 10, 2003 11:33:13
Originally posted by Kalanth
In my campaign, the mysterious leader of the Goblins is a Death Knight Bozak Draconian.

I guess I'd lke to know how exactly you came up with that combination.

Because death in general isn't conductive to anybody's health, much less a draconians.
#33
jonesy
Dec 10, 2003 11:37:17
Originally posted by silvanthalas
In my campaign, the mysterious leader of the Goblins is a Death Knight Bozak Draconian.

I guess I'd lke to know how exactly you came up with that combination.

Because death in general isn't conductive to anybody's health, much less a draconians.

Especially when it's a Bozak.
#34
daedavias_dup
Dec 10, 2003 11:55:40
Originally posted by jonesy
I guess I'd lke to know how exactly you came up with that combination.

Because death in general isn't conductive to anybody's health, much less a draconians.

Especially when it's a Bozak.
You guys say it like there is something inherently wrong with having a death knight whose body would have combusted when he died . Perhaps he is a death knight composed of the particles that formed when he blew up...
#35
kalanth
Dec 10, 2003 12:49:11
Originally posted by Daedavias
Perhaps he is a death knight composed of the particles that formed when he blew up...

I love that idea, I may have to change him.

In all honesty, I figured that the world has Gods that do nasty things like curse you with the status of Death Knight when you don't stop a cataclysm. So in that respect, I figured the Gods just cursed the poor draconian. Part of his punishment is the only pain he feels is his body constantly trying to rip itself apart due to his death throe. The Gods, however, prevent this with their power (very minor amount of godly might needed to do that) and force him to remain on the world as a Death Knight.

The characters background came from an adventure we played that took place during the War of Souls, where this particular Draconian worked to foil Takishis in her sceems, while also working to foil the Solamnics and so on so that he could become the ruler of Krynn. He recovered a Dragon Orb and took command of the Mages Tower in Isthar (long story behind this), and when the Dark Queen found him, just before her defeat, she cursed him as a Death Knight. The Gods returned to the world, heared of what he had done, and decided to leave the curse in place. He is a blast to play, and required a lot of thought on how to accomplish this with a Draconian.
#36
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2003 11:04:43 I just finished writing my campaign plot.

I'll post it here if anyone wants to know what I did with the mysterious leader and what I intend for Qualinesti.

So let me know, m'kay?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2003 12:00:12	After the war of souls a mysterious leader organizes the goblins and moves south to take control of southern Qualinesti. But I can't find any place in the DLCS that actually says who he is. It is really important to me to find out as I'm about to launch a campaign where the players need to help some qualinesti elves fight the goblins to reclaim qualinesti. I have soem plans, but I need to know more about that mysterious leader of the goblins. PLEASE HELP!!!!
#2 The_White_Sorcerer Dec 09, 2003 12:13:41	I think it might be captain Samuval. At least he's leading some sort of army in Qualinesti.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2003 12:17:08	Nah, It says in the DLCS that Capatain Samuval has taken control of Northern Qualinesti, but the goblins have been organized by a mysterious leader who is moving them south to conquer southern Qualinesti. (page 173 - "Elves - a people in exile", first paragraph). I thought maybe he was mentioned in one of the novels (I only ever read the 4th age stuff) or maybe he was stated elsewhere in the DLCS.
#4 jonesy Dec 09, 2003 12:20:46	I am the mysterious leader of the goblins! I think he might be mentioned in future novels or gaming material.
#5 cam_banks Dec 09, 2003 12:23:01	Originally posted by Eylwn Highmoon I have soem plans, but I need to know more about that mysterious leader of the goblins. Well, put it this way - who would you have be the mysterious leader of the goblins? Cheers, Cam
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2003 12:38:05	MY PLAYERS DON'T READ!!!! (That's you MadMaxim!!!) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . So far I have been cooking up plans with an ancient green dragon who has hidden in the southern qualinesti during the dragon purge and now with Berryl dead, he has crawled out from hiding and is eager to claim the ravaged qualinesti for his own. Taking the shape of a human (hiding his dragon features with a cloak) he acts under an alias, as a mysterious wizard who now leads the goblins to the southern qualinesti in an attempt to claim it for his own. That's where the players come in, so I won't go into details about it here.
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2003 12:42:24	maybe it's a death knight Lord Toede? EG
#8 brimstone Dec 09, 2003 13:09:45	What about Porthios. heh heh :D Well, whoever it is...I have a feeling we'll get some more information in Lake of Death...I hope.
#9 The_White_Sorcerer Dec 09, 2003 13:11:58	Originally posted by Eylwn Highmoon Nah, It says in the DLCS that Capatain Samuval has taken control of Northern Qualinesti, but the goblins have been organized by a mysterious leader who is moving them south to conquer southern Qualinesti. (page 173 - "Elves - a people in exile", first paragraph). Ah, my mistake then. I only remembered something about a goblin army and Samuval leading an army of some kind so I mixed those up.
#10 silvanthalas Dec 09, 2003 13:21:56	The thing that's amusing about this situation is that everybody likes to put good characters (Samuval, Porthios) in charge of an army of evil goblins. But hey, if this is a mystery that doesn't get resolved for awhile, that's fine with me, seeing as how I liked all the mysteries the SAGA game products presented.
#11 brimstone Dec 09, 2003 13:22:55	Originally posted by silvanthalas But hey, if this is a mystery that doesn't get resolved for awhile, that's fine with me, seeing as how I liked all the mysteries the SAGA game products presented. Yeah...too bad most of them were never answered (or at least, answered attiquately/realistically)
#12 ferratus Dec 09, 2003 13:53:01	There are good mysteries and bad mysteries though. For example, this mystery pretty much paralyzes a campaign that wants to be in the flow of official continuity from using the goblins. A goblin army led by Porthios is going to be vastly different from the ones that use a green dragonspawn leader. A better idea would have been to let us know who the leader is, but leave his plans a mystery. That would allow me to do a bunch of smaller adventures using the goblins, but leave the surprise of his ultimate plan to the eventual novel or game supplement.
#13 silvanthalas Dec 09, 2003 14:49:13	Originally posted by ferratus There are good mysteries and bad mysteries though. For example, this mystery pretty much paralyzes a campaign that wants to be in the flow of official continuity from using the goblins. Well, unless you plan on wiping out the entire army, I don't see how it completely paralyzes a campaign. But these kind of things (ie, leadership mysteries, the "real" agenda of a character, etc) are going to present regardless, so I would think most people know how to work with/around these kinds of situations.
#14 cam_banks Dec 09, 2003 14:52:33	There are two kinds of people, clearly. People who like to have mysterious things left undecided, unwritten, or unexplained, and just go to town with it for their own campaigns or wait until it eventually does get explained in some novel or another; And people who want all the secrets, plotlines, ambitions, goals, fates and desires of characters and locations in a setting to be spelled out, even if only to them, so that they don't have to worry about conflicting with what anybody else says about it. There's merit to both, but the former sells books, and the latter pretty much puts the kibosh on any anticipation or tension, which is one of the real drawcards to fiction and drama. Cheers, Cam
#15 shugi Dec 09, 2003 15:24:54	I know what I've already set up in southern Qualinesti... the goblin "tribes" are led by hobgoblin green dragonspawn, who in turn have a sorcerous leader. Maybe that'll help you out.
#16 brimstone Dec 09, 2003 15:38:39	Originally posted by Cam Banks There's merit to both, but the former sells books, and the latter pretty much puts the kibosh on any anticipation or tension, which is one of the real drawcards to fiction and drama. True...but never-ending, open ended mysteries is a crappy way to write fiction. Can be good for gamers...but for someone who does nothing but read the fiction, it can be very frustrating.
#17 cam_banks Dec 09, 2003 15:43:08	Originally posted by Brimstone True...but never-ending, open ended mysteries is a crappy way to write fiction. Can be good for gamers...but for someone who does nothing but read the fiction, it can be very frustrating. Oh, I agree. But you don't show all your cards at once. Imagine the following: "Introducing Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis' newest trilogy, the War of Souls! This trilogy features the return of Takhisis!" That'd go down well. Cheers, Cam
#18 brimstone Dec 09, 2003 15:59:38	Originally posted by Cam Banks Imagine the following: "Introducing Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis' newest trilogy, the War of Souls! This trilogy features the return of Takhisis!" I agree completely. But...the 5th Age featured several mysteries that have never been solved...and it's 8 years later. That's taking it a bit far, don't you think? Now, not all mysteries need an answer (good example is "Who is Astinus?") but most do. Otherwise, they're just an annoyance.
#19 kipper_snifferdoo_02 Dec 09, 2003 16:01:11	Originally posted by silvanthalas But these kind of things (ie, leadership mysteries, the "real" agenda of a character, etc) are going to present regardless, so I would think most people know how to work with/around these kinds of situations. Well I would like to know who it is, but I have to agree that there are work arounds for now. The "mysterious leader" you make now could certainly serve the "REAL" mysterious leader down the road once they have finally released who it is, or once they reveal the leader's identity the leader could either usurp the power from your villian or replace him if the party has killed your bad guy. There are a number of ways to deal with it.
#20 silvanthalas Dec 09, 2003 16:38:18	Originally posted by Brimstone But...the 5th Age featured several mysteries that have never been solved...and it's 8 years later. That's taking it a bit far, don't you think? And you realize this wouldn't have happened had SAGA & all 5th Age development not ended with the announcement of WoS? I mean, I went back through afdl stuff one time and found a comment from Steve Miller back in '98 that they had plans to bring the minotaurs to the forefront. Now, not all mysteries need an answer (good example is "Who is Astinus?") but most do. Otherwise, they're just an annoyance. This is true, but it's the struggle of the games versus novels to find the balance. Now, Jean has an upcoming book that presumably will deal with what's left of Qualinesti (it is called Lake of Death after all), so maybe we'll get some info there about the goblins. But for Dragonlance to succeed, there will likely have to be things that are over-arching for both, but then the individual stories for each. Mysteries and such that each side will explore for the other.
#21 brimstone Dec 09, 2003 16:43:56	Originally posted by silvanthalas And you realize this wouldn't have happened had SAGA & all 5th Age development not ended with the announcement of WoS? Of course. And then War of Souls changed some stuff that had already been established. Sure would be interesting to know where they were going with some of those 5th Age threads...like the Shadow Sorcerer and the Sage...the Herald, the "alien" dragons. Khellendros and the Grey. Ah well...guess we'll never know.
#22 silvanthalas Dec 09, 2003 18:56:14	Originally posted by Brimstone Ah well...guess we'll never know. Well, apparently at least one person (not me) has gotten to take a look at the stuff Stan! still had, and it was apparently interesting. Of course, I've tried to bug Stan! myself about it in the past and he wouldn't say anything.
#23 ferratus Dec 10, 2003 1:06:59	Originally posted by Cam Banks There are two kinds of people, clearly. People who like to have mysterious things left undecided, unwritten, or unexplained, and just go to town with it for their own campaigns or wait until it eventually does get explained in some novel or another; And people who want all the secrets, plotlines, ambitions, goals, fates and desires of characters and locations in a setting to be spelled out, even if only to them, so that they don't have to worry about conflicting with what anybody else says about it. There's merit to both, but the former sells books, and the latter pretty much puts the kibosh on any anticipation or tension, which is one of the real drawcards to fiction and drama. I don't think that everything should be spelled out. Yes, a good geo-political guide is a must, but I want mysteries and dramatic tension just like everyone else. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Who Astinus is, is a nice little mystery, because we know what Astinus does. For the goblin leader, if you were going to keep his identity a secret, it would have been nice if we would have been given a little glimpse of what the goblins he commands are doing, or what their focus is. Are they whipped into a religious frenzy? Are they planning an invasion? Are they making alliances with the elves? Dwarves? Seekers? Or you can do the reverse and let us know the leader, but keep his plans and the activities of the goblins under wraps. Then you can have an idea to what kind of activities that the leader would be up to for your own campaigns, but still leave the storyline for that big adventure or novel a surprise. See, you want to keep mystery, but you do not want so much mystery that you have no adventure hooks. That was a lot of the problem with the 5th Age sourcebooks.
#24 zombiegleemax Dec 10, 2003 1:11:36	Okay, here is a bit more detailed info on what I'v planned for this campaign so far. MY PLAYERS DON'T READ!!!!! (MadMaxim!!!) . . . . . . . . . . The Green Dragon Mneorax (Known as Jade or Acid) was quick to hide in a deep lair in the southern qualinesti when the Dragon Purge began. Knowing that he could not hope to defeat Beryll, he hid away plotting and planning for the future. Now that Beryll and the other Dragon Overlords are dead, Mneorax has creeped out from his lair to find Qualinesti ravaged. Mneorax (I'm going for an ancient green dragon with a few spellcaster levels) is quick to seize the opportunity to take control of Qualinesti, but knowing how the world regards dragons no, he needs a secret way of taking the power. Shapeshifted into a human, he is roaming all of Qualinesti, disguising himself as a robed (to hide what little dragonfeatures he may have as a human) qizard named Leafwind, he is organizing the goblin tribes into a massive army, herding them southward to begin his conquest of Qualinesti. The campaign also has Mneorax gaining the aid of evil druids, and the players are supposed to help a Qualinesti elven army based in Wayend (having sailed in from Qualimori) to defeat the goblin army and allow the elves to reclaim some part of their former nation. I'm thinking about having Valthonis join the fight at some point as well, but that's not until nigh level 18 or so. Since the Tower of High Sorcery is at Wayreth, I'm starting out the campaign by having a Red Robed Wizard from Wayreth hire the players in Qualimori to sail with him to Wayend, and on the way they'll get hammered by an elder Water elemental summoned by some of those evil druids, and then the players will wash ashore on their own at the southern Qualinesti beaches far from Wayend.
#25 talinthas Dec 10, 2003 2:11:51	Frank and I got to see what the fifth age team had planned for their story arc when i went to Seattle last year. It was such an awesome story that i cried knowing that wos had usurped it. But then i came home and read WoS three, and realised that i liked the world as it stood, especially since i now knew what parts W&H kept from the original design. No use crying for what might have been, when what is is really good.
#26 ferratus Dec 10, 2003 4:08:24	Originally posted by talinthas But then i came home and read WoS three, and realised that i liked the world as it stood, especially since i now knew what parts W&H kept from the original design. I'm not so interested in the story, but I would have liked to know what the end result of the world would have been. Would they have gotten rid of the dragon overlords and reduced some the wastelands? Would they have rebuilt some of the cities, or given some place where people could live with some sort of security?
#27 brimstone Dec 10, 2003 10:34:48	Originally posted by silvanthalas Well, apparently at least one person (not me) has gotten to take a look at the stuff Stan! still had, and it was apparently interesting. I know...but he's remaining pretty tight lipped about it. So...I guess I'll rephrase to say that most of us will never know.
#28 daedavias_dup Dec 10, 2003 10:39:32	Originally posted by Brimstone *I know...but he's remaining pretty tight lipped about it. So...I guess I'll rephrase to say that most* of us will never know.** Does anyone know Chinese nipple torture? We could always wrestle the info out of him that way It is probably someone that we have never heard of before.
#29 brimstone Dec 10, 2003 10:40:32	Originally posted by Daedavias Does anyone know Chinese nipple torture? We could always wrestle the info out of him that way It is probably someone that we have never heard of before. No...it's Tal. (see above) And apparently the Wanderer, too...I didn't realize he knew also.
#30 daedavias_dup Dec 10, 2003 10:43:12	Originally posted by Brimstone No...it's Tal. (see above) And apparently the Wanderer, too...I didn't realize he knew also. Ooooh, it all makes sense now:D
#31 kalanth Dec 10, 2003 11:10:34	In my campaign, the mysterious leader of the Goblins is a Death Knight Bozak Draconian. Figured this would be an interesting mix of things and certainly a powerful creature. The characters have fought him once, and worked with him on another occasion, but no one in the world believes them when they try to explain that a Death Knight is taking the forest, because the people believe that with the SPOILER death of Lord Soth, that must mean that there are no more death knights in the world.
#32 silvanthalas Dec 10, 2003 11:33:13	Originally posted by Kalanth In my campaign, the mysterious leader of the Goblins is a Death Knight Bozak Draconian. I guess I'd lke to know how exactly you came up with that combination. Because death in general isn't conductive to anybody's health, much less a draconians.
#33 jonesy Dec 10, 2003 11:37:17	Originally posted by silvanthalas In my campaign, the mysterious leader of the Goblins is a Death Knight Bozak Draconian. I guess I'd lke to know how exactly you came up with that combination. Because death in general isn't conductive to anybody's health, much less a draconians. Especially when it's a Bozak.
#34 daedavias_dup Dec 10, 2003 11:55:40	Originally posted by jonesy I guess I'd lke to know how exactly you came up with that combination. Because death in general isn't conductive to anybody's health, much less a draconians. Especially when it's a Bozak. You guys say it like there is something inherently wrong with having a death knight whose body would have combusted when he died . Perhaps he is a death knight composed of the particles that formed when he blew up...
#35 kalanth Dec 10, 2003 12:49:11	Originally posted by Daedavias Perhaps he is a death knight composed of the particles that formed when he blew up... I love that idea, I may have to change him. In all honesty, I figured that the world has Gods that do nasty things like curse you with the status of Death Knight when you don't stop a cataclysm. So in that respect, I figured the Gods just cursed the poor draconian. Part of his punishment is the only pain he feels is his body constantly trying to rip itself apart due to his death throe. The Gods, however, prevent this with their power (very minor amount of godly might needed to do that) and force him to remain on the world as a Death Knight. The characters background came from an adventure we played that took place during the War of Souls, where this particular Draconian worked to foil Takishis in her sceems, while also working to foil the Solamnics and so on so that he could become the ruler of Krynn. He recovered a Dragon Orb and took command of the Mages Tower in Isthar (long story behind this), and when the Dark Queen found him, just before her defeat, she cursed him as a Death Knight. The Gods returned to the world, heared of what he had done, and decided to leave the curse in place. He is a blast to play, and required a lot of thought on how to accomplish this with a Draconian.
#36 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2003 11:04:43	I just finished writing my campaign plot. I'll post it here if anyone wants to know what I did with the mysterious leader and what I intend for Qualinesti. So let me know, m'kay?