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Greater Proxy question.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jrblasingame
Dec 09, 2003 15:36:19 Ok, I was reading the post on "How to become a Proxy" and thought of something I have been wondering about for awhile. I have a character who was a Greater Proxy of Paladine. If anyone has been keeping up with Dragonlance then they know that Paladine is no longer a god.What I want to know is what would be a good idea on what to do with my character? I have read where some proxies just kind of explode, or disintergrate from the power withing when their god is no longer a god. But seeing as Paladine willing gave up his power, I'm sure he wouldn't let that happen. I'm just curious on what would happen. Would Paladine change the character back to "normal" or let him keep his upped abilities (to continue the GOOD fight)? Would he change him into something totally different, say a Deva or Solar or something?

Thanks,

J.Blasingame
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 09, 2003 15:39:08 I'd say that the pulling of the plug would drain away all of Paladine's gifts. He'd be returned to the same place as he'd been before he was a Proxy.

Really, if you wanna use the newest Dragonlance events I don't know that the Great Wheel is the best place for it, but that's just my opinion.
#3
jrblasingame
Dec 09, 2003 15:45:44 The problem with this is...he was a Paladin before becoming a Proxy, but then againthat just means he would loose those abilities too. But this character was made and played in 2e, so the Great Wheel worked fine. But what I was figuring might be a good idea is to see if my DM would allow my character to become an Astral Deva or Planetar. Planetar seems to fit the character best though because of stats, abilities, HD, etc. this would still allow him to be an agent of Good, but he just wouldn't have his Paladin/Proxy abilities.

J.Blasingame

Thanks for the quick reply.
#4
zombiegleemax
Dec 09, 2003 15:52:29 But the thing is, it doesn't make much sense except that you don't want the character losing too much power.

The thing is. Paladine gave up all of his power to become mortal. Its really not fair for Paladine to go "Hey, I'll give up all of my power but lemme just upgrade my followers into more powerful beings so they can carry on my work before hand, that okay with you, Gil?." I doubt the other gods, the ones of Darkness and Twilight, would really allow such a power dump.

In any case, if your player had been on Krynn itself before Paladine's death he wouldn't have any power anyways as the gods had all vanished except Tak. I'd allow him to keep his Paladine abilities (you can rename it Mysticism instead of Clerical power) and remove his Proxy powers. Sure, he'll be qeaker, but such is the multiverse, your Deity can't just pull the plug without you feeling the hurt.
#5
jrblasingame
Dec 09, 2003 16:14:22 Well I can see where your coming from, but I also don't think he would strip all his power from all his followers either. Clerics and stuff of course would loose all thier abilities, but his personal agents would be a different matter. I'm not talking "dumping" his godly might into my character, but changing him so that he can continue to work for the other GOOD gods in general. My character would not become a god, but would become a servant who doesn't rely on Paladine for his proxy powers (the ones he would no longer have). Instead making it so he could continue fighting evil, but not to the same degree. The Deva and Planetar suggestions were stated because they are closest to what my character is....not only because of thier power level. My character is a champoin of good, a paragon of virtue, etc, etc....and based on this (and other factors) would make a decent A.Deva or Planetar. But of course this is moot....I mean I don't really play him anymore anyways, but I would like to know other suggestions on what would happen to him. Your suggestion is a good one, but I'm not sure if it is the correct one. The character wasn't on Krynn when the Gods disappeared btw, but was combating evil on a "higher" plane (Paladine doesn't usually let his upper planar residents run around on Krynn messing around with the locals). but gotta run, be back later.

J.Blasingame
#6
bob_the_efreet
Dec 09, 2003 18:09:55 It's not so much about Paladine stripping the power from his followers. More like he doesn't have the power to feed them anymore, so they revert to the power level they had without his help.
#7
jrblasingame
Dec 09, 2003 20:27:49 Yeah i got that, what I was saying though is that maybe just maybe he kind of "put his house in order" before he vacated. giving his followers one last command before going out and making it so he didn't have to power his upper lvl servants (ie: Assimon, Guardinal, Archon, or any other new form that didn't require his direct attention). But I guess you and Primus are right, he might give recommendations but probably wouldn't go through anything other than making sure his followers are taken care of. Especially since he wasn't doing all that great after the Chaos war (really drained from the battles) and probably not fully recovered by the time of War of Souls.

thanks for the replies,

J.Blasingame
#8
zombiegleemax
Dec 09, 2003 21:40:56 Personally I'd rule that as Proxy you could become a celestial, of appropriate alignment, with no memory of your past life. Thereby taking your power from no single Power but from the force of Good itself. Given your arguments that would be my ruling.
#9
zombiegleemax
Dec 11, 2003 21:27:33 One other thing that might be interesting to play out might be this: Your character loses all of his abilities, be they proxy or paladin related and becomes a plain ol' normal guy when Paladine gives up his divinity. But the side of good is not about to let such a champion fade away! I'm not an expert on Krynnish mythology, but I believe that the various Gods of good work well together (is not Mishakal Paladine's wife?), so Mishakal, for example, could take the ex-proxy under her wings, and grant him his former powers, and maybe status. This would all benefit the greater good, after all.
This might be really fun to play, as the ex-proxy, faithful and devoted to Paladine as he was, would now have a new patron. He'd be torn, at least to some extent, between his former and his new Power, trying to honor the memory and follow in the footsteps of the Paladine and obey and exemplify Mishakal.

My thoughts anyway...
#10
MephitJames
Dec 14, 2003 11:54:45
Originally posted by Brun
I'm not an expert on Krynnish mythology, but I believe that the various Gods of good work well together (is not Mishakal Paladine's wife?), so Mishakal, for example, could take the ex-proxy under her wings, and grant him his former powers, and maybe status.

The trick is that all of the gods left Krynn, so Mishakal's in the same boat (as far as I know). My personal reaction is that when your character became a proxy of Paladine he got turned into an exemplar (outsider, whichever). I'd imagine he loses a lot of power with his patron deity out of the picture, but he's still deep down something more than he was. I imagine he'd be reshaped into a more generalized planeborn, since Paladine's not keeping him in a shape that is suiting to his image the proxy would now be "given up" to the planes and become a regular planeborn type. A lot of his power would be lost in the transformation, but he should be able to hold his own (maybe a sword or hound archon instead of a planetar, those berks are fierce).
#11
zombiegleemax
Dec 14, 2003 11:59:27 Nah, MJ, the powers leaving Krynn was a whole two sagas ago. The powers are back with two notable exceptions after the "War of Souls" (Read about the "War of Souls" in the War of SOuls Trilogy).

Turns out, the gods didn't leave Krynn, Takhisis stole it. After a while a bunch of stuff happens and the gods find Krynn. Paladine agrees to give up Divinity to preserve the Balance and Takhisis is also stripped of Divinity. Takhisis is killed by the little whelp Silvanoshei (Little puke, worst character ever) and Paladine remains in mortal form.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jrblasingame Dec 09, 2003 15:36:19	Ok, I was reading the post on "How to become a Proxy" and thought of something I have been wondering about for awhile. I have a character who was a Greater Proxy of Paladine. If anyone has been keeping up with Dragonlance then they know that Paladine is no longer a god.What I want to know is what would be a good idea on what to do with my character? I have read where some proxies just kind of explode, or disintergrate from the power withing when their god is no longer a god. But seeing as Paladine willing gave up his power, I'm sure he wouldn't let that happen. I'm just curious on what would happen. Would Paladine change the character back to "normal" or let him keep his upped abilities (to continue the GOOD fight)? Would he change him into something totally different, say a Deva or Solar or something? Thanks, J.Blasingame
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2003 15:39:08	I'd say that the pulling of the plug would drain away all of Paladine's gifts. He'd be returned to the same place as he'd been before he was a Proxy. Really, if you wanna use the newest Dragonlance events I don't know that the Great Wheel is the best place for it, but that's just my opinion.
#3 jrblasingame Dec 09, 2003 15:45:44	The problem with this is...he was a Paladin before becoming a Proxy, but then againthat just means he would loose those abilities too. But this character was made and played in 2e, so the Great Wheel worked fine. But what I was figuring might be a good idea is to see if my DM would allow my character to become an Astral Deva or Planetar. Planetar seems to fit the character best though because of stats, abilities, HD, etc. this would still allow him to be an agent of Good, but he just wouldn't have his Paladin/Proxy abilities. J.Blasingame Thanks for the quick reply.
#4 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2003 15:52:29	But the thing is, it doesn't make much sense except that you don't want the character losing too much power. The thing is. Paladine gave up all of his power to become mortal. Its really not fair for Paladine to go "Hey, I'll give up all of my power but lemme just upgrade my followers into more powerful beings so they can carry on my work before hand, that okay with you, Gil?." I doubt the other gods, the ones of Darkness and Twilight, would really allow such a power dump. In any case, if your player had been on Krynn itself before Paladine's death he wouldn't have any power anyways as the gods had all vanished except Tak. I'd allow him to keep his Paladine abilities (you can rename it Mysticism instead of Clerical power) and remove his Proxy powers. Sure, he'll be qeaker, but such is the multiverse, your Deity can't just pull the plug without you feeling the hurt.
#5 jrblasingame Dec 09, 2003 16:14:22	Well I can see where your coming from, but I also don't think he would strip all his power from all his followers either. Clerics and stuff of course would loose all thier abilities, but his personal agents would be a different matter. I'm not talking "dumping" his godly might into my character, but changing him so that he can continue to work for the other GOOD gods in general. My character would not become a god, but would become a servant who doesn't rely on Paladine for his proxy powers (the ones he would no longer have). Instead making it so he could continue fighting evil, but not to the same degree. The Deva and Planetar suggestions were stated because they are closest to what my character is....not only because of thier power level. My character is a champoin of good, a paragon of virtue, etc, etc....and based on this (and other factors) would make a decent A.Deva or Planetar. But of course this is moot....I mean I don't really play him anymore anyways, but I would like to know other suggestions on what would happen to him. Your suggestion is a good one, but I'm not sure if it is the correct one. The character wasn't on Krynn when the Gods disappeared btw, but was combating evil on a "higher" plane (Paladine doesn't usually let his upper planar residents run around on Krynn messing around with the locals). but gotta run, be back later. J.Blasingame
#6 bob_the_efreet Dec 09, 2003 18:09:55	It's not so much about Paladine stripping the power from his followers. More like he doesn't have the power to feed them anymore, so they revert to the power level they had without his help.
#7 jrblasingame Dec 09, 2003 20:27:49	Yeah i got that, what I was saying though is that maybe just maybe he kind of "put his house in order" before he vacated. giving his followers one last command before going out and making it so he didn't have to power his upper lvl servants (ie: Assimon, Guardinal, Archon, or any other new form that didn't require his direct attention). But I guess you and Primus are right, he might give recommendations but probably wouldn't go through anything other than making sure his followers are taken care of. Especially since he wasn't doing all that great after the Chaos war (really drained from the battles) and probably not fully recovered by the time of War of Souls. thanks for the replies, J.Blasingame
#8 zombiegleemax Dec 09, 2003 21:40:56	Personally I'd rule that as Proxy you could become a celestial, of appropriate alignment, with no memory of your past life. Thereby taking your power from no single Power but from the force of Good itself. Given your arguments that would be my ruling.
#9 zombiegleemax Dec 11, 2003 21:27:33	One other thing that might be interesting to play out might be this: Your character loses all of his abilities, be they proxy or paladin related and becomes a plain ol' normal guy when Paladine gives up his divinity. But the side of good is not about to let such a champion fade away! I'm not an expert on Krynnish mythology, but I believe that the various Gods of good work well together (is not Mishakal Paladine's wife?), so Mishakal, for example, could take the ex-proxy under her wings, and grant him his former powers, and maybe status. This would all benefit the greater good, after all. This might be really fun to play, as the ex-proxy, faithful and devoted to Paladine as he was, would now have a new patron. He'd be torn, at least to some extent, between his former and his new Power, trying to honor the memory and follow in the footsteps of the Paladine and obey and exemplify Mishakal. My thoughts anyway...
#10 MephitJames Dec 14, 2003 11:54:45	Originally posted by Brun I'm not an expert on Krynnish mythology, but I believe that the various Gods of good work well together (is not Mishakal Paladine's wife?), so Mishakal, for example, could take the ex-proxy under her wings, and grant him his former powers, and maybe status. The trick is that all of the gods left Krynn, so Mishakal's in the same boat (as far as I know). My personal reaction is that when your character became a proxy of Paladine he got turned into an exemplar (outsider, whichever). I'd imagine he loses a lot of power with his patron deity out of the picture, but he's still deep down something more than he was. I imagine he'd be reshaped into a more generalized planeborn, since Paladine's not keeping him in a shape that is suiting to his image the proxy would now be "given up" to the planes and become a regular planeborn type. A lot of his power would be lost in the transformation, but he should be able to hold his own (maybe a sword or hound archon instead of a planetar, those berks are fierce).
#11 zombiegleemax Dec 14, 2003 11:59:27	Nah, MJ, the powers leaving Krynn was a whole two sagas ago. The powers are back with two notable exceptions after the "War of Souls" (Read about the "War of Souls" in the War of SOuls Trilogy). Turns out, the gods didn't leave Krynn, Takhisis stole it. After a while a bunch of stuff happens and the gods find Krynn. Paladine agrees to give up Divinity to preserve the Balance and Takhisis is also stripped of Divinity. Takhisis is killed by the little whelp Silvanoshei (Little puke, worst character ever) and Paladine remains in mortal form.