That's a 20% reduction!
Interestingly, the DLCS describes Ansalon as measuring roughly 1300 miles at its widest point.
Originally posted by iltharanos
The Atlas of Krynn described Ansalon as stretching 1,320 miles from Sancrist to the Courrain Ocean. I printed out the Ansalon map from Wizard's website and measured that same distance and came back with a distance of 1,050 miles!
That's a 20% reduction!
Interestingly, the DLCS describes Ansalon as measuring roughly 1300 miles at its widest point.
Go with what the DLCS says, I say.
Originally posted by jonesy
The great thing about the Wizards online map is that you can edit it, perhaps adding your things, making changes, correcting it if you spot errors, and making it fit your own campaign.
Hello Mr. One inch = 500 miles
So a good 50 nations (including city states) would be ideal for me.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
After reading the Draconomicon I also wonder how such a small continent can support the ecology of so many dragons. I’ve made the continents at least three times bigger in my campaign, but it still bugs me that officially it is so small.
The SAGA group increased the size of Ansalon in the 5th for the same kinds of reasons you state, Baron.
But people threw a fit. It became just another thing to dislike the 5th Age, rather than the fact that it actually made a heck of a lot of sense that Ansalon should be bigger.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
The SAGA group increased the size of Ansalon in the 5th for the same kinds of reasons you state, Baron.
*nods* Originally, Ansalon was somewhere around 1,200 miles across. The Fifth Age tripled this by making it 3,600 miles across.
But people threw a fit. It became just another thing to dislike the 5th Age, rather than the fact that it actually made a heck of a lot of sense that Ansalon should be bigger.
The counter-argument, of course, is that continuity wasn't maintained and the journeys of the Companions no longer made sense. ;)
This is a debate that has popped up off and on throughout the history of DL. There are many points to this argument, including original intent (for the case for a smaller Ansalon) vs. having plenty of room for adventure (for the case of the larger Ansalon).
Quite honestly, you will never see a final word on the issue. The debate will continue to exist forever. My advice is to pick the dimensions that work for you.
Of course, my personal belief is that the size doesn't matter so much as how you use what's there. ;)
Oh my. That just sounded all wrong. :embarrass
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I’ve always thought Ansalon is too small. If your neighbor has an army and decides to attack you have no time to prepare! An army can march from one end to the other in as little as seven days or less. After reading the Draconomicon I also wonder how such a small continent can support the ecology of so many dragons. I’ve made the continents at least three times bigger in my campaign, but it still bugs me that officially it is so small.
I don't know how fast your armies march, but Ansalon is not much smaller than Europe.
Besides, it is your neighbours that usually attack you anyway, so it really doesn't matter how big the continent is. Surprise attacks are a part of warfare.
I don't know how fast your armies march, but Ansalon is not much smaller than Europe.
Depending on the scale used, Ansalon post-Cataclysm is either the same size as Europe, or much larger. Pre-Cataclysm Istar also adds quite a lot of size to it.
The counter-argument, of course, is that continuity wasn't maintained and the journeys of the Companions no longer made sense.
Most of the time their travel was by griffin or dragon or other fast moving..umm..transports. Some of their longer journeys weren't even shown, so the Companions aren't really a good argument either way.
Originally posted by ferratus
I don't know how fast your armies march, but Ansalon is not much smaller than Europe.
Besides, it is your neighbours that usually attack you anyway, so it really doesn't matter how big the continent is. Surprise attacks are a part of warfare.
By Europe, do you mean Western Europe? Europe minus Russia? The continent of Europe? Or something else?
If you mean the continent of Europe, then I think Ansalon as it is described in the DLCS is distinctly smaller than Europe.
Ansalon's maximum proportions as stated in the DLCS are:
East to West: 1,300 miles
North to South: 1,000 miles
the continent of Europe has maximum proportions of:
East to West: 4,000 miles
North to South: 3,000 miles
Hehe, I guess they really love what's left of the Qualinesti nation. ;)
Originally posted by iltharanos
By Europe, do you mean Western Europe? Europe minus Russia? The continent of Europe? Or something else?
Mainland Europe, France to Palestine. Basically, I was thinking about the distance that the Franks had to go to fight the Saracens. That's about a 1,000 -1,500 miles right?
Anyway, room for 50 states and enough to make conquering the entire thing a tricky matter, but a few months to travel from Sancrist to Flotsam (Aquitaine to Jerusalem).
Originally posted by ferratus
Mainland Europe, France to Palestine. Basically, I was thinking about the distance that the Franks had to go to fight the Saracens. That's about a 1,000 -1,500 miles right?
Anyway, room for 50 states and enough to make conquering the entire thing a tricky matter, but a few months to travel from Sancrist to Flotsam (Aquitaine to Jerusalem).
I give you this, Ansalon is about the size of mainland Europe, but Europe is the smallest continent! And Europe didn’t have the vast overpopulation you get when a world is filled with humans, elves, dwarfs, goblins, dragons and much more. To answer your question Ferratus, my armies move at the rate giving in the rules. So yes that was a gross exaggeration. Still, a character could walk (barring misfortune) East to West, approximately 1,300 miles as provided by iltharanos, in little less than 2 months.
They should have made Ansalon as big as Asia to support the vast population encounter in a fantasy setting. That would make more sense anyway. At the current scale it takes 1 day of travel from Qualinost to Haven. That’s not much room for adventuring.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I give you this, Ansalon is about the size of mainland Europe, but Europe is the smallest continent!
Yet look at historical Europe. How many adventures happened there?
And Europe didn’t have the vast overpopulation you get when a world is filled with humans, elves, dwarfs, goblins, dragons and much more.
As opposed to the English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, etc. etc. etc.
Come to think of it, how many nations did historical Europe have compared to Ansalon?
To answer your question Ferratus, my armies move at the rate giving in the rules. So yes that was a gross exaggeration. Still, a character could walk (barring misfortune) East to West, approximately 1,300 miles as provided by iltharanos, in little less than 2 months.
Yet what lies throughout the travels? Mountains, dragons, the Lords of Doom, the New Sea...
They should have made Ansalon as big as Asia to support the vast population encounter in a fantasy setting. That would make more sense anyway. At the current scale it takes 1 day of travel from Qualinost to Haven. That’s not much room for adventuring.
Think about this. How many campaigns take place in a city? For example, the City of Greyhawk has so much to it that an entire campaign can take place there.
One can run a campaign in a city, and have plenty of adventure. One can have an entire continent to themselves, and not have an adventure at all.
So what happens then if Ansalon stayed at 3,600 miles long? Eventually, it would be filled up, and people would again say that there is not enough room to adventure.
Size does not equal adventure. Imagination equals adventure.
That doesn’t even begin to cover the conflicts found in Dragonlance. With the sheer size and appetite of dragons alone the continent is too small to support many dragons at all. But this is a silly thing to argue over we all love Dragonlance, and each of us is going to use the scale that suits our campaign needs the most. Personally, I like the Fifth Age scale better.
Originally posted by ferratus
Mainland Europe, France to Palestine. Basically, I was thinking about the distance that the Franks had to go to fight the Saracens. That's about a 1,000 -1,500 miles right?
Anyway, room for 50 states and enough to make conquering the entire thing a tricky matter, but a few months to travel from Sancrist to Flotsam (Aquitaine to Jerusalem).
Checking my handy-dandy map o' the world, it's roughly 2,100 miles as the crow flies from the eastern border of France to present-day Palestine. So even using that measure, Ansalon is still smaller.
Ansalon is smaller even than Australia, our own world's smallest continent.
Of course, even using Ansalon's indicated size, there's still plenty of adventure to be found ... unless you're into months-long sea voyages. ;)
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I give you this, Ansalon is about the size of mainland Europe, but Europe is the smallest continent! And Europe didn’t have the vast overpopulation you get when a world is filled with humans, elves, dwarfs, goblins, dragons and much more. To answer your question Ferratus, my armies move at the rate giving in the rules. So yes that was a gross exaggeration. Still, a character could walk (barring misfortune) East to West, approximately 1,300 miles as provided by iltharanos, in little less than 2 months.
Well, actually Europe's the second smallest continent, Australia's the smallest continent. ;)
As for walking across Ansalon east to west, it's no longer possible, what with the New Sea snaking throughout the center of the continent, the two island Ergoths, and Sancrist Isle.
I just remembered that while Ansalon is a relatively small continent and adventuring area, there are campaigns that are smaller still:
Dark Sun: the original boxed set's Tyr region was only 360 miles across at its widest.
Ravenloft: the Core was roughly the same size as Dark Sun's Tyr region.
Still, Ansalon seems like it should be bigger. Comparing it to land masses on Earth, its closest equivalent would be Greenland!
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
No matter how many different types of Europeans you list the fact remains that it is all one species. Fantasy worlds have countless of numerous races.
My point was merely to state that there are many peoples throughout the nations of Europe, perhaps moreso than in Ansalon. The difference, of course, being that Ansalon's races are fantasy races. Each of these nations in Europe, taken in a fantasy light, provide numerous opportunities for adventure.
You may have a point with dragons, although I will say that this may really only apply to the dragon overlords and dragonlords.
*shrugs*
As you say, it doesn't matter. People will use the scale that works best for them.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
My point was merely to state that there are many peoples throughout the nations of Europe, perhaps moreso than in Ansalon. The difference, of course, being that Ansalon's races are fantasy races.
Well, this just means that Dragonlance wasn't perhaps as well planned out as we thought - 380 years after the Cataclysm and a nearly-nonexistant group of knights "control" 1/4rd of the continent.
Which country has the largest part of Europe? France? Spain? western Russia? And even then that can't be but 10-15% of the entire continent.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
Which country has the largest part of Europe? France? Spain? western Russia? And even then that can't be but 10-15% of the entire continent.
Rome (Istar) did a pretty good job of it at one point. The Holy Roman Empire (Solamnia) did, also.
Europe's a tight little mess of nations, cultures, and conflicts, and it's the entire universe for its inhabitants for over a thousand years or more until travel and communication improved. Europe's highways were its rivers, and few people travelled overland for fear of walking into somebody else's territory. People spent their entire lives in villages without seeing anybody from over the mountains near their home, and kings were only kings as far as they could shout.
I think Ansalon's just fine the way it is, thanks. Most modern folks forget how incredibly small our planet has become in the past century, and how huge the world seemed to a lone peasant in 12th century Europe.
Cheers,
Cam
Anyway I made Ansalon triple in size which I think is the way to go.
Again I think its a individual call - do what you want!Originally posted by Cam Banks
Rome (Istar) did a pretty good job of it at one point. The Holy Roman Empire (Solamnia) did, also.
Europe's a tight little mess of nations, cultures, and conflicts, and it's the entire universe for its inhabitants for over a thousand years or more until travel and communication improved. Europe's highways were its rivers, and few people travelled overland for fear of walking into somebody else's territory. People spent their entire lives in villages without seeing anybody from over the mountains near their home, and kings were only kings as far as they could shout.
I think Ansalon's just fine the way it is, thanks. Most modern folks forget how incredibly small our planet has become in the past century, and how huge the world seemed to a lone peasant in 12th century Europe.
Cheers,
Cam
Cam, I don’t think the issue is that people have forgotten how much the planet has shrunk. Most of us have grown up in a world of globetrotters, real-time news, and continental communications. Krynn feels small to some of us because it is small. In such a place news should travel quicker, but they don’t. Medieval Europe had serfs tied down to the land, Dragonlance have adventures combing the continent. These are the bearers of tidings. Yet no one knows anything. Dragons are abundant, yet there’s very little room to support their ecosystem. Things don’t quite make sense all the time either; I never understood how the Plains of Dust could be a sandy desert when it’s so near Ice Wall. It should be a flat, cold tundra. I don’t mean to drag this any further, but it’s not always very accurate to compare a high-fantasy setting with the way things work in our medieval era. I’ve made Krynn bigger because I want even the land to feel epic, so when players look across the great valley of mountains that lead to Neraka they see a grand journey ahead of them filled with peril, not four days travel of hack-and-slash fillers.
Originally posted by Cam Banks:
Most modern folks forget how incredibly small our planet has become in the past century, and how huge the world seemed to a lone peasant in 12th century Europe.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. We have faster travel, faster communication. It takes a few hours to cross a state these days. How long did it take in Lewis and Clark's time?
Baron makes a good point in that fantasy elements can change how we perceive the size on Ansalon. While I don't think humanoid races affect things much, I do think that dragons can have an impact, especially the overlords.
Inevitably, our perceptions and experiences are what will guide us as we choose which dimension to use for Ansalon.
For me, I have a hard time envisioning distances at times. When I run a game, I just make up how long it will take to get from one area to the next. Between my players and I, we come up with a reasonable traveling time and we go with it. Size has never been a problem for me.
Also, my own experiences on how I got into DL affect how I view Ansalon's size. When I first started playing, it was 1,200 miles across. I used this size for years prior to SAGA tripling the size. Those who got into DL during the SAGA years are probably more likely to use the 3,600 mile diameter.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Halabis
...and Solamnia, although one could argue that Solamnia is largely defunct with the Dark knights controling Palanthas and the Solamnics the rest.
One could also argue that Solamnia was never a country in the traditional sense, and more of a union of city states, with a European Union type government in Palanthas.
Ah, history. How you make me smile.
Originally posted by The Udjat
Rather like the Holy Roman Empire, I would say. ;) Which, ofcourse, was neither Holy, Roman, nor an Empire.
Ah, history. How you make me smile.
I'm married to a medieval history instructor working on her PhD in Irish saint's lives and church history, so I'm very familiar with the smiling all the time.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by jonesy
One could also argue that Solamnia was never a country in the traditional sense, and more of a union of city states, with a European Union type government in Palanthas.
And this would be fine, but Solamnia has never been presented that way.
If anything, this is another of DL's flaws, that while you have the overall info, Solamnia is here, Qualinesti is there, you have no smegging idea who is in charge where, or what the situation is truly like.
If you look at a map, and go "this is Solamnia", and then you say "it's full of city states", I think anybody would just shake their head and laugh.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
If you look at a map, and go "this is Solamnia", and then you say "it's full of city states", I think anybody would just shake their head and laugh.
I agree...I was under the impression that the only city state in Solamnia was Palanthas...and it shared some governing duties with Solamnia.
That was my impression anyway.
Originally posted by Brimstone
I agree...I was under the impression that the only city state in Solamnia was Palanthas...and it shared some governing duties with Solamnia.
That was my impression anyway.
Mine as well. But that wasn't my point.
Originally posted by jonesy
Mine as well. But that wasn't my point.
Sorry...sarcasm doesn't always travel well on the waves of the internet.
My bad.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
[b]Baron - Originally, the Plains of Dust were a tundra. Now with the changing climate (due to moving the world, dragon overlords, and lack of Maelstrom), the Plains of Dust are more of a desert during the summer and a tundra during the winter.
All right, but the Plains of Dust are still very near the southern hemisphere. It should be cold as hell year around and I don’t see how it suddenly turned from a tundra to a sandy desert. Did Iyesta have anything to do with this? I didn’t think a good dragon would stoop to the level of the other Dragon Overlords and change the land drastically to suit her comfort.
WoS made this problem worse by describing the place like the american south west, with sand and plateus and stuff.
I know some of you would like to tell me to shut up and just accept it, but these inconsistencies should be address and answered for. I like my campaign to make sense.
Originally posted by talinthas
Maybe Sable's manipulations changed the weather stream and drew all the moisture north?
Between Beryl and Sable making their regions have more precip (Qualinesti became more like a rain forest, New Swamp... well, a bigger swamp
), it would be possible that it would affect other areas.Take from that what you will.
Here is how the plains of Dust would reasonably work. In the winter it snows, and since there is no heat, the snow sticks around. It doesn't snow much, so when the spring comes you only have a couple weeks of wet weather where you get a profusion of green plants that have adapted to grow very quickly. Then the winds start picking up, and the sands shred the plants to bits, leaving only some hardy seeds to wait for next spring.
It can even get extremely hot in the Plains of Dust during the summer, because temperature is regulated by moisture. Without moisture, the temperature climbs rapidly. Here in Saskatchewan for example, we can see temperatures up to +40 degrees celcius, even though our winters are 7 months long.
So as long as it snows in the winter time, the Plains of Dust as described are just fine.
However, with it being so far south, it would be more like Siberia I would imagine, not a temperate region. But I'm not a weather specialist type person so who knows! lol It sounds reasonable....
Rosisha, who is wondering if a DL designer could comment on this????
Originally posted by Rosisha
Rosisha, who is wondering if a DL designer could comment on this????
I thought I already did. *sniff* ;)
Rosisha, fumble!
Originally posted by Rosisha
haha whoops. sorry. i have the flu so i'm not thinking straight. Please forgive me!
Rosisha, fumble!
S'okay. Hope you get over the flu soon.
1) Sanction used to be entirely landlocked. Then the 1st Cataclysm came and now there's a sea lapping at its shore. Three volcanoes constantly spew lava down through (and now around) Sanction into the New Sea. So why hasn't Sanction's bay been filled up by all this lava flow?
The only thing I can thing of (besides saying it's magic and leaving it at that), is that the sea floor must be incredibly deep, so deep that over four centuries of near continuous lava flow have failed to fill up the bay.
2) The Missing City. In the Odyssey of Gilthanas it is described as being the location of a Silvanesti settlement from before the first Cataclysm. The impression I received was that this settlement was a mainland settlement and that residents of the city traveled to and fro in wagons, horses, by foot, etc. Yet when we consult maps of pre-1st Cataclysm Ansalon we find that the location of the Missing City is in the middle of the ocean! Eh?
3) Lacynos. The capital city of Mithas has been repeatedly described as having always been a port city, even before the first Cataclysm. Yet when I consult the pre-1st Cataclysm map (ala Atlas of Krynn ) it shows the area of Lacynos as being entirely landlocked!
What d'ya all think?
Originally posted by iltharanos
2) The Missing City....The impression I received was that this settlement was a mainland settlement...Yet when we consult maps of pre-1st Cataclysm Ansalon we find that the location of the Missing City is in the middle of the ocean! Eh?...3)Lacynos...has been repeatedly described as having always been a port city, even before the first Cataclysm. Yet when I consult the pre-1st Cataclysm map (ala Atlas of Krynn ) it shows the area of Lacynos as being entirely landlocked!
I think you are neglecting all of the effects of the Cataclysm. Parts of Ansalon were relocated, other parts lost land (due to it sinking), and some parts gained land. Lacynos could have either gained land to it's east side, or the stretch of land it's on could have rotated slightly. The Missing City isn't even on the pre-Cataclysm maps, and could have come from anywhere near Silvanesti.
Originally posted by iltharanos
Since we're all (mainly) talking about Ansalon and its quirky climate/geography, I wonder if anyone else has pondered some of the enigmas I've encountered in Dragonlance, such as:
1) Sanction used to be entirely landlocked. Then the 1st Cataclysm came and now there's a sea lapping at its shore. Three volcanoes constantly spew lava down through (and now around) Sanction into the New Sea. So why hasn't Sanction's bay been filled up by all this lava flow?
The only thing I can thing of (besides saying it's magic and leaving it at that), is that the sea floor must be incredibly deep, so deep that over four centuries of near continuous lava flow have failed to fill up the bay.
Heh, I brought this up on the other boards and the most reasonable (although not really entirely reasonable for me) is the bottemless creave located under sanction bay. That's the only way I could reasonably explain it. *shrug*
2) The Missing City. In the Odyssey of Gilthanas it is described as being the location of a Silvanesti settlement from before the first Cataclysm. The impression I received was that this settlement was a mainland settlement and that residents of the city traveled to and fro in wagons, horses, by foot, etc. Yet when we consult maps of pre-1st Cataclysm Ansalon we find that the location of the Missing City is in the middle of the ocean! Eh?
Well, not according to the Atlas. It seems to be right on the coastline both before and after the Catalcysm. In fact it looks like it just gained land on either side of it from what I can tell.
3) Lacynos. The capital city of Mithas has been repeatedly described as having always been a port city, even before the first Cataclysm. Yet when I consult the pre-1st Cataclysm map (ala Atlas of Krynn ) it shows the area of Lacynos as being entirely landlocked!
What d'ya all think?
Yeah, this one is harder, but I suppose if you said it was on a big lake (which there is one in that general area) then that might explain it.
:D
Originally posted by iltharanos
Since we're all (mainly) talking about Ansalon and its quirky climate/geography, I wonder if anyone else has pondered some of the enigmas I've encountered in Dragonlance, such as:
1) Sanction used to be entirely landlocked. Then the 1st Cataclysm came and now there's a sea lapping at its shore. Three volcanoes constantly spew lava down through (and now around) Sanction into the New Sea. So why hasn't Sanction's bay been filled up by all this lava flow?
The only thing I can thing of (besides saying it's magic and leaving it at that), is that the sea floor must be incredibly deep, so deep that over four centuries of near continuous lava flow have failed to fill up the bay.
Well, the Lords of Doom only flared to life during the War of the Lance with the construction of the Dark Queen's temple. After her defeat they cooled again, erupting again during the 5th Age.
Now, granted, that is still a few decades of lava. My explanation is that the same wizards that cleaned the sulfuric fumes out of the air also dredged the harbour and kept it in working order. Of course, with Hogan Bight missing and the lava still flowing, this means that Sanction could very quickly have a large problem on its hands.
2) The Missing City. In the Odyssey of Gilthanas it is described as being the location of a Silvanesti settlement from before the first Cataclysm. The impression I received was that this settlement was a mainland settlement and that residents of the city traveled to and fro in wagons, horses, by foot, etc. Yet when we consult maps of pre-1st Cataclysm Ansalon we find that the location of the Missing City is in the middle of the ocean! Eh?
Umm... it was right on the shore? Yeah, that's it.
We may have to nudge the shoreline down a little bit on the pre-cataclysmic maps to make sure the Missing City is there.
3) Lacynos. The capital city of Mithas has been repeatedly described as having always been a port city, even before the first Cataclysm. Yet when I consult the pre-1st Cataclysm map (ala Atlas of Krynn ) it shows the area of Lacynos as being entirely landlocked!
It is New Lacynos, built after the Istarians conquered Old Lacynos and renamed it Lattakay.
Or it was built after the Cataclysm destroyed Old Lacynos, or we point out that Minotaurs only took to the sea in a big way after the Cataclysm and that Lacynos doesn't need to be a port city. Yeah, but this is definately the stuff that needs to be looked out for.
Originally posted by iltharanos
[b]The Atlas of Krynn described Ansalon as stretching 1,320 miles from Sancrist to the Courrain Ocean. I printed out the Ansalon map from Wizard's website .
Where did you go to print it out from? Is the map downloadable?
Originally posted by iltharanos
[b]The Atlas of Krynn described Ansalon as stretching 1,320 miles from Sancrist to the Courrain Ocean. I printed out the Ansalon map from Wizard's website .
Where did you go to print it out from? Is the map downloadable?
Here's how I reached my conclusion. Using the map of southern Ansalon on page 139 of the DLCS I measured it out and found the Missing City to be approximately 123 miles southwest of Silvanost.
Going to the map of pre-1st Cataclysm Ansalon on page xv of the Atlas of Krynn I measured the same distance at the same angle to the southwest of Silvanost. The results indicate that the Missing City's location is almost 19 miles south of the mainland, in the middle of the sea. Maybe those Silvanesti cartographers weren't so sharp-sighted and sure of hand as we thought they were. ;)
Kipper, Ferratus: Sanction
Perhaps a combination of a relatively deep bay and dredging could explain Sanction Bay's existence. Now that you mention it, the Dragonarmies probably used dragons to dredge the bay during the War of the Lance and during the Age of Mortals Hogan/Crucible could have also fulfilled the same task. The deep bay theory could also account for the presumed several decades of non-dredging between those two periods.
Kipper, Ferratus: Lacynos
Hehe, Lacynos' pre-1st Cataclysm location does seem to correspond to the edge of a large swamp ...
Originally posted by bdg4life
[b]Originally posted by iltharanos
The Atlas of Krynn described Ansalon as stretching 1,320 miles from Sancrist to the Courrain Ocean. I printed out the Ansalon map from Wizard's website .
Where did you go to print it out from? Is the map downloadable?
It's downloadable at the link below:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20031121a
Here's another quirky Ansalon geography note.
4) Teyr: In the Age of Mortals it's described as originally being a satellite community of the dwarves of Thoradin, founded 200 years before the first Cataclysm. Consulting my handy Atlas of Krynn ... we find that its pre-first Cataclysm location corresponds to the open ocean. Sea dwarves, anyone? ;)
I don't know if they will ever be able to beat the TotL map for detail and accuracy (and sometimes it doesn't even look like anyone's trying). Don't get me wrong...this one's pretty...but something just seems...I don't know..."off" about it, I guess.
Both the Missing City and Teyr are on that map...but I haven' compared their possitions to pre-First Cataclysm maps.
Originally posted by Brimstone
I don't know if they will ever be able to beat the TotL map for detail and accuracy (and sometimes it doesn't even look like anyone's trying). Don't get me wrong...this one's pretty...but something just seems...I don't know..."off" about it, I guess.
Given the TotL map was apparently unfinished and shouldn't have gone to print with all of those additional symbols and notations all over it, it's still amusing to me to hear people describe it as detailed and accurate. But that's okay.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Given the TotL map was apparently unfinished and shouldn't have gone to print with all of those additional symbols and notations all over it, it's still amusing to me to hear people describe it as detailed and accurate. But that's okay.
Well...the amount of stuff on there is excellent. No map has more villages, towns, havens, cities, ruins, mystic sites (even though they didn't say what everything was)...but it did give plenty of adventure stops for the ambitious and creative DMs. Not to mention, it gave the future game designers a great foundation for their stories and such (if they were just used more often). One must applaud TOoG in this endeavor, if not for the story.
What I like the most about the TotL map though is the accuracy on where everything is placed. The only other maps that are that accurate, I believe, are in the Atlas (excluding original DL Module maps).
Originally posted by Brimstone
What I like the most about the TotL map though is the accuracy on where everything is placed. The only other maps that are that accurate, I believe, are in the Atlas (excluding original DL Module maps).
Accurate to what? Descriptions of things in the novels?
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Accurate to what? Descriptions of things in the novels?
Mostly to the Atlas (which was accurate to what was depicted in the modules).
But, mainly by "accurate" I mean that the borders and sites are printed accurately on the painted map. Way too often everything is shifted by like an eighth of an inch or so up or down or left or right, or crooked, or whatever...it's just off. Even the DLCS map is guilty of this.
Oh, and another thing the TotL has over the DLCS is the detail in the topography of the map (is that the right word?). Anyway, the level of detail in the mountain ranges and forests and deserts and the like. DLCS isn't nearly precise with their geographic features as TotL.
The DLCS does, however, did get quite a few of the villages, towns, ect. into the map. There still needs to be more, though.
On the down side the mystic sites bug the hell of me, I kept seeing those “white-dots” in my vision if stared too long.
On the up side I loved the inclusion of the Wall of China.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
On the up side I loved the inclusion of the Wall of China.
While I absolutely hated it, and was glad it was ignored.
If I was to crack open my conspiracy theories, I'd say the Totl map was an example of a design team planning to turn Krynn into a fully realized campaign setting, and was told by management that Dragonlance was about the Heroes of the Lance and that they should just do a 2e update of DLA.