does anyone know if it has been talked about in 3e?
aslo what all do we know about the gentlemen caller and the time of unparralleled darkness?
ashy
It's a do-whatever-you-want thing.
The current RL year is 758 so there's still 17 years in game and pretty much out before they need to detail it.
Originally posted by ashramry
i heard somewhere once that due to the fact that the writer of this particular plot thread was no longer employed by wotc (then tsr i believe), this partiular thread would just be forgotten about.
I believe I probably said that somewhere, at some point. The Gentleman Caller stuff was so loose and vague that I figured it was best for it to fade. For whatever reason, he seemed to have captured lots of imaginations.
does anyone know if it has been talked about in 3e?
aslo what all do we know about the gentlemen caller and the time of unparralleled darkness?
Look for him to reappear in an upcoming GAZ. (It happens that it will be the one I'm contributing to, even though the Gentleman Caller's role in it was actually dreamed up by someone else.)
As for what we know about him... he seems to be an incubus who is roaming the Demiplane of Dread while executing a convoluted and far-reaching plan, while seducing women and turning them evil. Think of him as similar to Leland Gaunt in "Needful Things." (I didn't realize how similar he could be considered until I saw the film again on TV over Thanksgiving.) He is also on the run from an arch-nemesis--a celestial who pursued him into Ravenloft against the express wishes of higher powers. As a result, she has is trapped in human form.
As for the Time of Unparralleled Darkness, nothing is known. It is a time of doooom that was prophesized when Van Ricthen dissapeared/died/opened a taco stand in Hazlan.
I still believe that he should be kept vague in official products, so that he can be kept mostly as a DM tool. However, there are enough people asking "what is this guy up to" that I am certain that WW will have to put something in the official products.
I hope, though, that it can be done in such a way that can remain completely open, too. Personally, I think "canon" should be meaningless to everyone but those who are writing for print. I realize that the sentiment is not universally shared, so unending vagueness can be irritating to some.
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
Follow-up thought...
I still believe that he should be kept vague in official products, so that he can be kept mostly as a DM tool. However, there are enough people asking "what is this guy up to" that I am certain that WW will have to put something in the official products.
I hope, though, that it can be done in such a way that can remain completely open, too. Personally, I think "canon" should be meaningless to everyone but those who are writing for print. I realize that the sentiment is not universally shared, so unending vagueness can be irritating to some.
If so, I hope they have the decency of involving you in the project.
Originally posted by Charney
If so, I hope they have the decency of involving you in the project.
Some time ago, the developers asked me for my thoughts on the GC and where to take him/the plots around him. i've been busy working on material for books, but I have a breather coming up. Then, I will probably follow through on their request.
As for decency... Ravenloft has been a group project since the days of "House on Gryphon Hill." Whoever's on the team at any given time can run with whatever ideas they feel like playing with, IMO.
~B4Real
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
Some time ago, the developers asked me for my thoughts on the GC and where to take him/the plots around him. i've been busy working on material for books, but I have a breather coming up. Then, I will probably follow through on their request.
As for decency... Ravenloft has been a group project since the days of "House on Gryphon Hill." Whoever's on the team at any given time can run with whatever ideas they feel like playing with, IMO.
Still they didn't do Carnival any justice in CoD. But I did like that Lowder was the one behind the appearance of the Wanderers. He did a great job and it was his creation.
Originally posted by B4Real
Sorry to say this but I actually have no idea whatsoever what or who GENTLEMAN CALLER is? Can someone fill me in on this?
~B4Real
Well in the products I have, he's turned up in Domains of Dread as Malchichio Adarre's dad (he seduced Gabrielle) and in Carnival as Isolde's nemesis. He's definatly an Incubus, which is the male form of a Succubus. Others can tell you about other stuf he's been in. I guess he just (dan dan dan daaaaan) really mysterious....
Originally posted by Sir T
Well in the products I have, he's turned up in Domains of Dread as Malchichio Adarre's dad (he seduced Gabrielle) and in Carnival as Isolde's nemesis. He's definatly an Incubus, which is the male form of a Succubus. Others can tell you about other stuf he's been in. I guess he just (dan dan dan daaaaan) really mysterious....
He does not sound too interesting at all. Thanks Sir T. :D
~B4Real
I do have a question. Who's idea was it to make Isolde the Caller's nemesis?
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
Then he's been described wrong.
I do have a question. Who's idea was it to make Isolde the Caller's nemesis?
Well then give me a better description if you will. I am genuinely interested in knowing who this guy is.
~B4Real
His nemesis is Isolde, mistress of the Carnival, who is a Greater Eladrin, a Ghale (sp?).
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
He's a demon, that's obvious. He looks like an incubus, but he may not be. He travels the domains, following a plan only he knows. So far he has created the penagallan vampires in Ravenloft, fathered Malocchio Aderre and Vlad Drakov II (or one of Drakov's bastard children), had the Pipes of Mordent created (apparently, this is mere speculation), told Loht where to find the Sword of Arak which would help Gwidiyon free himself from the Obsidian Gate and rule the Shadow Rift and probably most significantly, he told Madame Radanavich how to bring Baron Metus back from the beyond to help kill Van Richten.
His nemesis is Isolde, mistress of the Carnival, who is a Greater Eladrin, a Ghale (sp?).
Now see with that explanation I am actually starting to become interested in this guy. Thanks.
~B4Real
http://www.kargatane.com/sotk/rldb/rldb.shtml
That's the direct link. You can still get there via the www.kargatane.com route.
Originally posted by B4Real
Now see with that explanation I am actually starting to become interested in this guy. Thanks.
~B4Real
The real charm about this guy IMO is that he's an unknown boogeyman. The very real answer for who is he is...we still don't know. The first time he's officially stated and scheduled to directly fight the PCs his hold on my imagination will be broken. All we know about him are the evil deeds attributed to him, and that his enemy Isolde is so driven to stop him that she ignored the wishes of her superiors to pursue him into Ravenloft at the cost of many of her pwoers and her own imprisonment.
The GC sets things in motion that the PCs (usually) arrive in time to intervene and set right...but by then the GC is long gone and the PCs may not even realise his involvement. He's a pupeteer, who manipulates events through seduction and whispered information. Like Kaiser Sose' from the Unusual Suspects no one can tell you what he looks like. Yes we now know he is an incubous but even that information was slowly rolled out. The Gentleman Caller is just a label people use for the progenetor of these aweful events. He caused the doom of Gabrielle Aldere and Loht of the Shadow rift. He caused the fall of a priestess of Hala who became a Penagallen. He seems to have sired Drakov II behind the DLs back.
But we still don't know what he's doing in RL. We don't know what his grand plans are. And that makes him scary, because he can't be quantified or directly combated. In horror movies the unknown monster half seen is always scarrier than the gore covered one lumbering down the hallway. Likewise the "stat-less" monster in RL is scarrier because no one knows what it can do, or how it can be combated.
We don't know if his manipulations will result in the ToUD, but I think he makes a good canidate.
-Eric Gorman
Originally posted by HvF
.
But we still don't know what he's doing in RL. We don't know what his grand plans are. And that makes him scary, because he can't be quantified or directly combated. In horror movies the unknown monster half seen is always scarrier than the gore covered one lumbering down the hallway. Likewise the "stat-less" monster in RL is scarrier because no one knows what it can do, or how it can be combated.
true, but remember that the GC HAS been given stats in VRGt:demons in the compendium.
ashy
But the coolest thing I think about the GC was what HvF said. That he just initiates things and moves along.
He is Dues Ex Machina made flesh. If you ever need a way to initiate a plot or create a monster and you're just drawing a blank and the Dark Powers just don't seem right you can play the Gentleman Caller card.
Originally posted by HvF
He seems to have sired Drakov II behind the DLs back.
Where was this mentioned?
But really, who else springs to mind?
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
So far he has ... fathered Malocchio Aderre and Vlad Drakov II (or one of Drakov's bastard children...
Soory, but that's Vigo Drakov you're thinking of, not Vlad II. From Ravenloft Gazetteer, Vol. 2, page 104:
"The director of the Central Prison and head of the Ministry that governs it is Vigo Drakov, supposedly one of Vlad Drakov's bastard offspring. Born in 705 to a half-Vistani concubine-slave of the mercenary-king, Vigo is not in fact one of Drakov's by-blows. In truth, a namless, faceless nobleman forced himself upon the terrified half-Vistani girl in her cell in the depths of Draccipetri. Drakov, ignorant of this, believes Vigo to be his offspring, perhaps the sole child in whom he finds any pride. Vigo, however, is aware of his parentage, though he has hidden his true nature from his supposed father and disguises his fiendish deformities under a cloak of illusion."
As a note, the The Central Prison sidebar should not be a Dread Possibility (since the Central Prison and Vigo are intended to be solid facts in the setting). I mislabled it in my manuscript and didn't catch the error.
A little speculation based on this passage may reveal some interesting twists in the family trees of the Core's darklords...
...had the Pipes of Mordent created (apparently, this is mere speculation)...
Actually, this is a bit of retroactive continuity, since Forged of Darkness was published before the Gentleman Caller's first appearance in The Evil Eye. It still fits perfectly well though.
A second retroactive reference to the Gentleman Caller can be gleaned from the description of the Death-In-The-Box.
Chris Nichols
I think statting the GC would be a bad idea, much along the lines of the guy that defined the Dark Powers in that declared-non-canon trilogy about Azalin. But that's just my opinion.
Originally posted by Belac
Actually, the GC is just mentioned in the Van Richten's Monster Compendium 3, not statted.
Unfortunately untrue. His stats are provided in the book.
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
Personally, I think "canon" should be meaningless to everyone but those who are writing for print. I realize that the sentiment is not universally shared, so unending vagueness can be irritating to some.
Not quite on topic, but, as the point's been brought up. Well, at least partially; the response I give may not quite be to what you meant.
My take on Campaign Settings:
The less I need to change a campaign setting, the better it is in my opinion. That's why I buy one in the first place. The more I need to change or alter a campaign setting to my tastes, the more I begin to ask myself just why I'm not doing my own homebrewed world (which I do as well at times; but I'm addressing campaign settings here).
As such, I prefer to stick to canon. I change what I want to as it suits me, but the less I need to do that, the better I feel about having plunked down my dollars for the setting books I have. The more use I can get out of a book, the better.
Of course, with that said, I'm an avid hater of both metaplot and no leeway for interpretation. Were the Grand Conjunction to happen tomorrow, as opposed to however many years ago, I'd likely be livid - although the fact that it happens through adventures, and at the characters hands would alleviate that to a degree (Novels, on the other hand, are the worst of offenders when they change the setting). Same thing if the Time of Unparalleled Darkness were detailed - I'm of the opinion it's all a hoax, anyway, the Church of Ezra no more right than any other faith. Whereas the Dark Powers being defined would also draw my ire - even if only conceptually, as opposed to personally, were dumb luck to more or less show them to be how I think of them anyway, thus leaving me only the ability to sympathize with all those who had a different take on them.
So some amount of vagueness is certainly good. A good campaign setting offers up a place to play, NPC's to play with, a number of plot hooks (or Dread Possibilities, however you wish to define them) to run with, and essentially builds everything for you, then lets you get it all rolling. Hopefully that came across clear enough.
But, anyway. Yeah. Some amount of agreement, potentially some disagreement, and possibly an entirely wrong interpretation. Heh. But there's my input on the matter.
Originally posted by CNichols
A little speculation based on this passage may reveal some interesting twists in the family trees of the Core's darklords...
That's why my question has always been "Who was Vigo's _mother_?" My money's on Isabella Aderre, which leads to Vigo being a half-sister of Gabrielle. The Caller apparently has a thing for women of the Zarovan tribe . . . :-)
Actually, this is a bit of retroactive continuity, since Forged of Darkness was published before the Gentleman Caller's first appearance in The Evil Eye. It still fits perfectly well though.
Chris Nichols
Not quite--The Evil Eye was released in September of 1995, while Forged of Darkness came out in January or February of 1996.
Matthew L. Martin