In fact, some of the events listed don't even agree. For instance, in the DLCS you read that the Shadow Sorcerer was the one to start teaching sorcery. In Dawning of a New Age, it was Palin who discovered it...and a few years later than the DLCS timeline gives by the way (he discoveres it, in the book, about two years after the Last Conclave is listed in the DLCS).
Also, I saw the "Dragons of a New Age" trilogy listed as a "secondary storyline" on the Nexus or Dragonlance.com (not sure which one) so, I'm curious. Are these events explained in another book, in another order...or was the DLCS timeline changed to fit better with several other books that have come out?
Also, I've already passed over the time where many important events happened that I thought might have at least ben mentioned in the book, but not a word! lol Like Linsha becoming a Knight, the meeting of Goldmoon and Jasper, etc. I assume these events are explained in other books of fiction or D&D source material?
And, finally, is the Dragons of a New Age trilogy worth reading at all if it's so "out of wack" with what us D&D players view as Krynn history? Thanks for the information.
Ever since its inception...it has always been the Shadow Sorcerer who teaches Palin and the Master of the Tower how to harness sorcery (that's not to say that someone didn't cast a spell prior to this...in fact, I think Palin's Pyre came from an accidental casting). But it has allways been the Shadow Sorcerer to taught them how to use it. Then Palin went off and created the Academy of Sorcery to disseminate the information to the masses.
I'm pretty sure the timeline of the book follows exactly the timeline of the SAGA product at the time...which is the same as the DLCS timeline.
And I will say, alhtough the trilogy starts off slow (and has a couple bumps along the way) it gets much better, and it is one of my favorites...and very much not deserving of its "Second Level Story" status.
Yeah, that was a spoiler warning, by the way, for War of Souls
Palin and Dalamar, discussing amongst themselves in Dragons of a Lost Star (I think), admit that the Shadow Sorcerer actually taught them both how to wield wild magic (or in Dalamar's case, necromancy). So there you have it.
And, Brimstone, I didn't mis-interpret anything unless the book later goes back to say some of it's starting chapters were wrong, lies, etc (which I doubt). It clearly says that Palin was the one who came up with it.
As I said above...I'm getting the impression that the timeline in the DLCS agrees with offhanded statments in the War of Souls and has little to do with Dragons of a New Age. And, the timeline of the DLCS does NOT agree with the timeline as stated in Dragons of a New Age for sure...I can quote some parts of chapters if you want or give you page numbers. Either way, I think these books have little to do with DL so far.
But tweaked in the sense that many people probably believed the timelines presented. I mean in the world, not reading the book. Palin said he created it so that everyone believed he created it. It makes sense, to me. There is similar backtracking in place for Dragons of Summer Flame, where Fizban is revealed to be Takhisis in disguise, way ahead in War of Souls.
But that's the nature of surprises. To take what you know, and show that you don't know it. So yes, there are inconsistencies. But I don't think they kill any of the mood or enjoyment of it.
Originally posted by vader42xx
And, Brimstone, I didn't mis-interpret anything unless the book later goes back to say some of it's starting chapters were wrong, lies, etc (which I doubt). It clearly says that Palin was the one who came up with it.
I'll check it out tonight.
Do you have a page number for me?
Originally posted by vader42xx
As I said above...I'm getting the impression that the timeline in the DLCS agrees with offhanded statments in the War of Souls and has little to do with Dragons of a New Age. And, the timeline of the DLCS does NOT agree with the timeline as stated in Dragons of a New Age for sure...I can quote some parts of chapters if you want or give you page numbers. Either way, I think these books have little to do with DL so far.
But I will re-iterate that if there is a loss in continuity here...it is only the book Dragons of a New Age. On this aspect of the story...every bit of information that talks about the creation of sorcerery...whether it was before, or after that book was written (SAGA Boxed set, 5th Age promo comic, War of Souls, DLCS) they ALL say the Shadow Sorcerer showed Palin and Co. how to tap into this primative magic...not the other way around.
On page 75 you learn that it's 30 years after the Chaos War (they could be rounding as the last conclave was 28 years after according to the DLCS timeline but I don't think so because they mention it being 30 years later several times in the book, etc). So this part is wrong first of all (not to mention that the Shadow Sorcerer started teaching Palin much earlier than the last conclave according to the DLCS).
Secondly, you'll find that it's Palin (according to DoaNA) who tells the Shadow Sorcerer about this "new magic" on page 79. If you read between the lines for the next few pages it looks as if it may be that the Shadow Sorcerer already knows all of what Palin is saying...but it's pretty obvious that he hasn't been teaching Palin anything (either that or they were "acting" for the Master of the Tower for some reason...but, if that's the case, it's written VERY poorly).
Either way, there are still some time and event issues between the books and the timeline.
And, Baron, you say some of the characters actually die and are brought back in other books? Is this explained (magic, etc) or is "history" just changed to suit what they wanted to do (like the Lord Soth Ravenloft, Krynn thing)? And which character or characters are you talking about? Don't worry about spoilers (at least not for me, drop a notice for anyone else please)...I'd just like to know how much these books are considered part of the "official" timeline. As I said above, even the Nexus (or dragonlance.com) lists them as secondary and not part of the main flow of the Krynn timeline.
Anyway, thanks for the info.
Edit: Brimstone...I totally agree that all other sources say it's the Shadow Sorcerer who started teaching Palin (and Dalamar) how to use the "new magic." That's why I was so confused when I started reading DoaNA and so many things just don't match what everything else says.
Goldmoon died in those books, but in the War of Souls trilogy Goldmoon plays a vital role, thus her death never occur. It was changed in the timeline, if I recall well, Jasper takes the killing blow for her and she heals him. Not that it matters; he dies later on as well. A lot of what occur since the ending of Dragons of Summer Flame has been change to suit the needs of Weis and Hickman. Those books provide the framework for the new “Age of Mortals” presented by Sovereign Press, but are no longer canon.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Spoiler Ahead.
Goldmoon died in those books, but in the War of Souls trilogy Goldmoon plays a vital role, thus her death never occur. It was changed in the timeline, if I recall well, Jasper takes the killing blow for her and she heals him. Not that it matters; he dies later on as well. A lot of what occur since the ending of Dragons of Summer Flame has been change to suit the needs of Weis and Hickman. Those books provide the framework for the new “Age of Mortals” presented by Sovereign Press, but are no longer canon.
Actually all of that happened in DoaNA.
And as far as I'm concerned it's as much canon as anything in the W&H books. They all have continuity problems, and DoSF itself created far more problems than DoaNA.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Those books provide the framework for the new “Age of Mortals” presented by Sovereign Press, but are no longer canon.
I don't know where you're getting your information...
SPOILERS (Eve of the Maelstrom)
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but like Jonesy said, Goldmoons death and resurrection thanks to the sacrifice of Jasper all happened in the 3rd Book.
Those books are still very much canon. I mean...alot of stuff set up in that trilogy was ignored by War of Souls, yes, but none of it was refuted. The two trilogies work fine together without contradicting each other (no more than usual for a DL book, anyway ;))
Goldmoon died, but came back to life near the end of the series (Because, it was stated, Jasper was supposed to have died and not her - And so he did then, whereas he was only mortally wounded when Goldmoon died).
So no, that's not out of whack.
As far as I'm concerned, DoaNA can still be considered canon with relatively few problems. There are a few inconsistencies, but there are inconsistencies in all of the books - This is to be expected somewhat more when it's being written by Jean Rabe, and not W&H, who have a somewhat more intimate knowledge of the world. Not her fault.
Nor do I feel the books are a waste to read, as some others do. They may be considered 'secondary' books in several sources, but I read them as core material, and they fit fine - Though I admit, it is a pain to have some things not explained in the books, like the Legion of Steel and whatnot.
And just recall that many of the details had to be changed to fit the new direction of the setting. There were older plans, and they got cancelled. So W&H took what was there, and forged it into War of Souls. I, personally, am pleased with the result. The details aren't perfect, but I haven't been faced with anything that I don't understand so far.
EDIT: As a side note, I'll point out that I read from DoaNA directly into War of Souls. No books in between. And it's all working out fine for me.
On the subject of the date being wrong...when one uses terms like "decade" and the like, they can't always be taken literally...I'm sure that "three decades" and "thirty years" is fine for "28 SC". They did the same thing in the War of Souls...the terms "Four Decades" and "Forty Years" were used a few times...but it's actually 38 SC.
Well, Jean has described the situation many times...and it doesn't seem that it was very conductive for creating games and a trilogy on the same story. There was mis-communication alot apparently (which is why she had to bring Goldmoon back to life after she had already been given a go to kill her off...even by Margaret!) Anyway...this must have been another one of those situations.
But really...for the most part, I swear that trilogy can be taken as canon! :D
Anyway, the point is that the Dragons of a New Age seem to be the "kender version of history." They are correct in their own way and probably should be read...at least skimmed through. ;) But War of Souls does change a few things around and THAT is where we get most of our information for the DLCS timeline.
So thanks for the input everybody, I just wanted to know what was going on.
Originally posted by vader42xx
So she missed the date by quite a bit and got the conversation backwards...or she had the rug pulled out from under her by the War of Souls. ;)
Well, there are a couple things here.
First, the Last Conclave was in 28 SC (411 AC), not the 428 (like you mention above...but I'm sure that was just a typo).
Second, the way the promo comic was (and I take it as canon because there have references to the story in other products...gaming wise) Beryl had attacked Qualinost and was kidnapping Qualinesti elves and using their souls to power her magical artifacts (I think using the same kind of ritual the other Overlords used to drain the energy from their defeated enemies). Gilthas pleaded with Palin to help him...but he didn't know how...all they could do at this point was cast spells from scrolls and other magical items/artifacts. It was then that the Shadow Sorcerer explained to the Master of the Tower and Palin how to use this new sorcery (this was several years before the Last Conclave...probably around the time mentioned in the DLCS). Using this knowledge, Palin, Shadow, and Master all went and basically whooped up on Beryl (lotsa fun). But they only won because Beryl had surrounded herself with spirits who had readon to hate her...so the Sorcerers used that to their advantage.
Anyway, I'm assuming that over the next few years, the skill of sorcery started being disseminated to the masses...at which point Palin decided they needed to call a Conclave to determine how to handle the, more flexible (and less powerful) magic?
So, the War of Souls didn't "pull the rug out from under," that was done years ago thanks to most likely poor communication between the novel groups and the gaming groups.
Third, alot of the timeline in the DLCS tweaks things here and there. It's not that the old stuff doesn't matter any more...they were just trying to go for the most inclusive Dragonlance Timeline ever. And...because we all know that DL isn't exactly the most consistant fantasy world...some compromises had to be made here and there to make as much of it fit as they could.
But, I do not believe that negates any of the old material. All of it has it's own merit...and mistakes (even Margaret and Tracy's). And I still think DoaNA deserves First Level Story credit. But, make your own conclusions. At least you're giving it a try before deciding whether or not you like it. :D
And I agree with what you're saying (that it's possible at least) though it's not clear if the DLCS timeline does or not. The only two points that I really have an issue with is that (according to the DLCS timeline again) sorcery was introduced by the Shadow Sorcerer (not Palin) and she started teaching it (to both Palin and Dalamar) several years in advance of what DoaNA tells us it was even discovered. These are two minor "slips" or "changes" and the only ones I've really found. So not that big a deal really.
And what you say is very true...many things from all the books have been changed over the years, or told in other fashions, etc. Which is what I meant by DoaNA being a Kender's version of history.
Nothing wrong with the novels but I'm not big on the writing. While I agree that they should be considered as "first level" timeline material...I still would recomend to anyone who is more interested in a better grasp of the history of Krynn just to skim these three books (skim them well, but reading them at length doesn't get you much more information if any).
On the other hand, if you like the writing style...by all means, do enjoy. I just don't find these books to be at all well written. And I've learned very little history from the first two...so they don't hold much for me. But, never-the-less, they are part of the timeline as far as I'm concerned...they are just a bit misleading is a few places.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I don’t recommend you finish that trilogy. To me it was an utter waste of time. The characters are unappealing; the story tries to be epic but fails in its execution, and the ending is rather anticlimactic and fatalistic.
I sort of agree with you. Not having read any 5th age books I decided to start with these.
I found Rabe's writing style to be quite plain and boring for the most part, but as the books go along I got more interested in them.
The characters are not the most interesting, at least not as she writes them, and the story does just seem to end rather than coming to any conclusion but the third book had some top notch scenes that had me gripped.
I recommend you finish the trilogy and make your own mind up.
Also, I've got a couple other problems with Rabe's works. I should have mentioned them earlier but everything else caught my attention a bit more.
First off, in DoaNA it was obviously supposed to be Raistlin who caused the fall of the tower in Palanthas, not Dalamar. Just the description and the many clues dropped (not the least of which is the dragon claw staff with the faceted gem at the top...lol) tell us this. What's more, the tower was destroyed, not moved! Unless, of course, the War of Souls managed to explain all of this without just changing it (as they did with the dates and who discovered what...lol). Also, in Day of the Tempest, you'll find that the Master of the Tower confirms that the tower in Palanthas was destroyed...not moved.
Anyway, still history, but it seems like the Kender keeps creeping into the writing room every time I look away.
Originally posted by vader42xx
First off, in DoaNA it was obviously supposed to be Raistlin who caused the fall of the tower in Palanthas, not Dalamar.
It is in fact neither Raistlin nor Dalamar. It is the physical manifestation of the Tower of Palanthas itself - the Master of the Tower.
Just the description and the many clues dropped (not the least of which is the dragon claw staff with the faceted gem at the top...lol) tell us this.
The clues certainly point to Raistlin, but see above.
Besides, it helped draw out the mystery of who the character is. Although, what I've always wondered is how the Master of the Tower got what seems to be the Staff of Magius, when in fact Palin has it at the end of DoSF. Drained of it's magic, no less.
Unless, of course, the War of Souls managed to explain all of this without just changing it (as they did with the dates and who discovered what...lol). Also, in Day of the Tempest, you'll find that the Master of the Tower confirms that the tower in Palanthas was destroyed...not moved.
Well, WoS explains some of it without changing it, and some of it is explained while changing everything we knew before.
Either way, regardless of what WoS says, the Master claiming that the Tower has been destroyed works to his advantage. If everybody knew it had been moved, not destroyed, everybody would go hunting for it.
That is why the Master did what he did in the first place, to prevent Khellendros from getting anything.
Also, as far as I was aware, Raistlin took the staff of Magius with him at the end of Dragons of Summer Flame (that's always the impression that I got as Palin never carried the staff after that summer and he never seems to wonder where it is, etc).
As for the Master of the Tower being the one who moved/destroyed the tower...I'll keep reading but where does it actually tell you that in print? Don't worry about spoilers...at least with me.