I just got an I-6!!!! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

I just got an I-6!!!!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2003 14:39:34 Just gotta brag, I got an I-6 Ravenloft off e-bay and it came yesterday. Man it's in really good shape for being 20 years old as well. I can't wait to run this puppy.....
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2003 19:31:21 Congrats!

I discovered recently that I've either misplaced or given mine away somewhere along the line. *sigh*

I still have a copy of "House of Strahd," but that's not quite the same.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2003 22:41:37 Same here I paid a pretty penny for mine on Ebay, I just love the artwork, Tatania as a vampire (or is that greta the maid?) excelent... Only changes (I make on paper I would'dare write in the I-6) is I make Strahd a LE character.
#4
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2003 22:49:39 Thanks guys, right now I'm going through it to see if I can make a feasable conversion to 3e, so far it looks like I can. Either way it's nice to have even for it's role in the history of the game.
#5
zombiegleemax
Dec 12, 2003 22:55:34 I found a copy on eBay very cheaply-- but it's beat up, has lots of underlining, and smells of cigarette smoke (well, less so now that it's aired out in my house). Still, I could run it, and that's good enough for me.
#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 13, 2003 7:33:59 My 30 or so year old cousin, who brought me into Magic and has lent me an outrageous amount of AD&D material over the years, has this one from when it first came out. I'm hoping to get my hands on it, but I don't think he's willing to split with it permanently...

Now that I've finally got steady work, I might begin frequenting E-bay too... First on my list is Bleak House.
#7
zombiegleemax
Dec 13, 2003 7:45:09 All you young people make me feel old! I bought I6 when it came out at Halloween 1983 and still have it in my collection. I had already graduated college & been married for a year at that time as well. Cripes, just how long HAVE I been trapped in the mists?
#8
zombiegleemax
Dec 13, 2003 9:52:40 I guess now I'll try to get an I-10 I have the PDF but it's not the same as a hard copy.

Hard to believe that rl has been around 20 years now,ya?

Oh BTW, catman it's nice to see a fellow Missourian on here.
#9
zombiegleemax
Dec 13, 2003 11:09:01 Sorry for displaying my (vast) ignorance, but whats the difference between I6 and "House of Strahd"? I thought they were the same product..
#10
zombiegleemax
Dec 13, 2003 13:29:18 From what little I remember, mostly small tweaks like using the Tarokka instead of playing cards for Madam Eva's reading and some adjustments to reflect that it was a 2nd edition module.
#11
rucht_lilavivat
Dec 13, 2003 16:36:58
Originally posted by Northen_Spur
Same here I paid a pretty penny for mine on Ebay, I just love the artwork, Tatania as a vampire (or is that greta the maid?) excelent... Only changes (I make on paper I would'dare write in the I-6) is I make Strahd a LE character.

At the risk of starting a flood....

Oh, what the heck. I actually -like- Strahd as CE. I think that alignment suits him best. Why? Because Strahd is a creature of whim. His law is whatever suits him at the time. You could be a great burgomeister, but if he wakes up on the wrong side of the coffin one day...BAM! You're gone.

;)

By the way, congrats to Plunderer for getting I-6. I had to get my reprint of I-6 through buying the Silver Anniversary TSR Collector's Edition. So, people wanting to get I-6, remember that you can get it through that product also.
#12
zombiegleemax
Dec 13, 2003 17:15:44 I picture Strahd as someone who´d usually stick to his word like a LE character would do - but there may be exceptions, and those could be devastating (there´s the bloodlust after all). Still, he´s honored his pact with the vistani for quite some time now, didn´t he?

maybe we could just make him "evil" without the lawful/neutral/chaotic descriptor? Actually, I think that the alignment descriptor could be completely dropped for major RL villains. For minor NPCs it´s often convenient to just look up their alignment and play along - but characters like Strahd don´t seem to fit into these simple alignment boundaries and they could thus be omitted (granting more leevay and depth to the character).
#13
gotten
Dec 13, 2003 17:25:14
Originally posted by DennisKuester
I picture Strahd as someone who´d usually stick to his word like a LE character would do - but there may be exceptions, and those could be devastating (there´s the bloodlust after all). Still, he´s honored his pact with the vistani for quite some time now, didn´t he?

Isn't NE more close to his behavior ? i.e. chaotic and self centered, but also able to make pacts and respect them ?

Actually, I think that the alignment descriptor could be completely dropped for major RL villains. For minor NPCs it´s often convenient to just look up their alignment and play along - but characters like Strahd don´t seem to fit into these simple alignment boundaries and they could thus be omitted (granting more leevay and depth to the character).

Interesting idea.

Joël
#14
zombiegleemax
Dec 14, 2003 15:17:39
Originally posted by DennisKuester

maybe we could just make him "evil" without the lawful/neutral/chaotic descriptor? Actually, I think that the alignment descriptor could be completely dropped for major RL villains. For minor NPCs it´s often convenient to just look up their alignment and play along - but characters like Strahd don´t seem to fit into these simple alignment boundaries and they could thus be omitted (granting more leevay and depth to the character).

I agree with this. For me, the ethical aspect of alignments is just the base upon which the character's personnality is constructed. Strahd's personnality is well established beyond that.
#15
rucht_lilavivat
Dec 14, 2003 22:53:26
Originally posted by Gotten
[b]Isn't NE more close to his behavior ? i.e. chaotic and self centered, but also able to make pacts and respect them ?

Interesting idea.

Joël

That's certainly possible. I've always seen Strahd as someone who would "honor" their word so long as it suited them. And having an alliance with the powerful Vistani would suit just about anyone. ;)

But I would also agree that Strahd has sort of "transcended" the traditional definition of alignment.
#16
andrew_cermak
Dec 15, 2003 0:24:36 For me, the best way to determine whether Strahd should be LE is to compare him to someone who is, no questions asked, LE, and see if he "measures up."

So, for a moment, let's compare Strahd to his major rival, Azalin, who I don't think anyone would argue is Lawful Evil through and through.

Azalin executed his son Irik for treason. He didn't want to, but he did it because he "had" to; Irik had committed a crime and had to face the appropriate penalty. Azalin now desires nothing more than to uncover some arcane secret that will enable him to return his son to life, but to this day he does not believe (or claims not to believe) that he was wrong in executing his son.

So, ask yourself...would Strahd execute someone dear to him, even though it was against his own wishes, because the law required him to do so? Would he execute, say, Tatyana, for the sole reason that the law required her death?

I don't think he would. The law serves Strahd, not the other way around. He will kill for pleasure, he will kill for passion, he will kill for hunger, but he will not kill contrary to his interests and desires.

That's an example of why he's Chaotic Evil.
#17
john_w._mangrum
Dec 15, 2003 1:04:14 To tack onto what Andrew just wrote, I feel that Strahd's rule over Barovia is grounded in possession. He oversees it and "protects" it because it's his, and he takes any outside threat to it personally. As AC says, Strahd uses the law because it serves him. When and where the law doesn't serve him, he ignores it or changes the law.

He also has that little tendency of his to go on rage-fueled rampages, slaughtering everyone in his castle when weddings get ruined.

All that said, though, I feel that Strahd is one of many characters in Ravenloft who, if asked, would identify themselves as having much different alignments than they actually hold. I suspect Strahd would label himself as lawful neutral. Once upon a time, in his younger days, that might even have been true.
#18
zombiegleemax
Dec 15, 2003 8:04:18
Originally posted by Andrew Cermak
For me, the best way to determine whether Strahd should be LE is to compare him to someone who is, no questions asked, LE, and see if he "measures up."

So, for a moment, let's compare Strahd to his major rival, Azalin, who I don't think anyone would argue is Lawful Evil through and through.

Azalin executed his son Irik for treason. He didn't want to, but he did it because he "had" to; Irik had committed a crime and had to face the appropriate penalty. Azalin now desires nothing more than to uncover some arcane secret that will enable him to return his son to life, but to this day he does not believe (or claims not to believe) that he was wrong in executing his son.

So, ask yourself...would Strahd execute someone dear to him, even though it was against his own wishes, because the law required him to do so? Would he execute, say, Tatyana, for the sole reason that the law required her death?

I don't think he would. The law serves Strahd, not the other way around. He will kill for pleasure, he will kill for passion, he will kill for hunger, but he will not kill contrary to his interests and desires.

That's an example of why he's Chaotic Evil.

Azalin could also be seen as Chaotic if you look in his actions,

The Grim Harvest comes to mind, He killed his son for Legal reasons but his wife was an other story, letting a night Hag loose because she didn't suit his purpose (not caring what she would to to his population), Made magical experiments on captive women to see if he could engener himself a son, the barons and lords underhim seem to have as much life expectancy as the Burgomasters in Barovia.

So Azalin isn't the pragmatical example of Lawfull Evil
#19
mortavius
Dec 15, 2003 9:34:23 But the Grim Harvest had a purpose; it wasn't just random murder. It was to collect life energy for Azalin's transformation. I forget how he killed his wife (I thought she died naturally?). As for Styrix, I bet if Styrix went on a rampage, Azalin would step in real quickly.

Azalin doesn't care about his people the way that Strahd does (ie. possessively). But he doesn't want to see them slaughtered by a monster for no reason.

Sorry Northern_spur, but everything you quoted has a purpose as far as I can see, and it pretty much seems lawful to me.
#20
zombiegleemax
Dec 15, 2003 10:12:11
Originally posted by Mortavius
But the Grim Harvest had a purpose; it wasn't just random murder. It was to collect life energy for Azalin's transformation. I forget how he killed his wife (I thought she died naturally?). As for Styrix, I bet if Styrix went on a rampage, Azalin would step in real quickly.

Azalin doesn't care about his people the way that Strahd does (ie. possessively). But he doesn't want to see them slaughtered by a monster for no reason.

Sorry Northern_spur, but everything you quoted has a purpose as far as I can see, and it pretty much seems lawful to me.

Purpose isn't enghouh to be Enghou, did the people he killed tried to rebel againts him? where they criminals who needed to die?

He gatthered the souls in the grim Harvest for his own greed, to escape his prison.

While he din't give the blow that killed his wife, he made sure she wouldn't survive, he killed the man she loved, and easly had the power to prevent her death and sufferring. But He made sure that she knew of his deed, and made her suffering worst.

Azalin simply doesn't care what Strix does, as long as it still benifits him. If wiping Martina's Bay from the map is what it took for him to escape or something he realy wanted, Azalin wouldn't think twice.
#21
andrew_cermak
Dec 15, 2003 14:01:24
Originally posted by Northen_Spur
Azalin could also be seen as Chaotic if you look in his actions,

The examples you gave are of Evil actions, not necessarily Chaotic ones.

Azalin did not initiate the Grim Harvest on a whim, or in a rage. It was a calculated effort with a calculated goal. The deaths involved were necessary sacrifices from his perspective, not desired but unavoidable.

Also, Darkon is a different kingdom than the one he ruled on Oerth, and I doubt very much that it's a constitutional monarchy. He probably *does* have the legal right to sacrifice his subjects to grand projects, much as the Pharaohs or Kings of Ur woud have.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2003 14:39:34	Just gotta brag, I got an I-6 Ravenloft off e-bay and it came yesterday. Man it's in really good shape for being 20 years old as well. I can't wait to run this puppy.....
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2003 19:31:21	Congrats! I discovered recently that I've either misplaced or given mine away somewhere along the line. sigh I still have a copy of "House of Strahd," but that's not quite the same.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2003 22:41:37	Same here I paid a pretty penny for mine on Ebay, I just love the artwork, Tatania as a vampire (or is that greta the maid?) excelent... Only changes (I make on paper I would'dare write in the I-6) is I make Strahd a LE character.
#4 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2003 22:49:39	Thanks guys, right now I'm going through it to see if I can make a feasable conversion to 3e, so far it looks like I can. Either way it's nice to have even for it's role in the history of the game.
#5 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2003 22:55:34	I found a copy on eBay very cheaply-- but it's beat up, has lots of underlining, and smells of cigarette smoke (well, less so now that it's aired out in my house). Still, I could run it, and that's good enough for me.
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 13, 2003 7:33:59	My 30 or so year old cousin, who brought me into Magic and has lent me an outrageous amount of AD&D material over the years, has this one from when it first came out. I'm hoping to get my hands on it, but I don't think he's willing to split with it permanently... Now that I've finally got steady work, I might begin frequenting E-bay too... First on my list is Bleak House.
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 13, 2003 7:45:09	All you young people make me feel old! I bought I6 when it came out at Halloween 1983 and still have it in my collection. I had already graduated college & been married for a year at that time as well. Cripes, just how long HAVE I been trapped in the mists?
#8 zombiegleemax Dec 13, 2003 9:52:40	I guess now I'll try to get an I-10 I have the PDF but it's not the same as a hard copy. Hard to believe that rl has been around 20 years now,ya? Oh BTW, catman it's nice to see a fellow Missourian on here.
#9 zombiegleemax Dec 13, 2003 11:09:01	Sorry for displaying my (vast) ignorance, but whats the difference between I6 and "House of Strahd"? I thought they were the same product..
#10 zombiegleemax Dec 13, 2003 13:29:18	From what little I remember, mostly small tweaks like using the Tarokka instead of playing cards for Madam Eva's reading and some adjustments to reflect that it was a 2nd edition module.
#11 rucht_lilavivat Dec 13, 2003 16:36:58	Originally posted by Northen_Spur Same here I paid a pretty penny for mine on Ebay, I just love the artwork, Tatania as a vampire (or is that greta the maid?) excelent... Only changes (I make on paper I would'dare write in the I-6) is I make Strahd a LE character. At the risk of starting a flood.... Oh, what the heck. I actually -like- Strahd as CE. I think that alignment suits him best. Why? Because Strahd is a creature of whim. His law is whatever suits him at the time. You could be a great burgomeister, but if he wakes up on the wrong side of the coffin one day...BAM! You're gone. ;) By the way, congrats to Plunderer for getting I-6. I had to get my reprint of I-6 through buying the Silver Anniversary TSR Collector's Edition. So, people wanting to get I-6, remember that you can get it through that product also.
#12 zombiegleemax Dec 13, 2003 17:15:44	I picture Strahd as someone who´d usually stick to his word like a LE character would do - but there may be exceptions, and those could be devastating (there´s the bloodlust after all). Still, he´s honored his pact with the vistani for quite some time now, didn´t he? maybe we could just make him "evil" without the lawful/neutral/chaotic descriptor? Actually, I think that the alignment descriptor could be completely dropped for major RL villains. For minor NPCs it´s often convenient to just look up their alignment and play along - but characters like Strahd don´t seem to fit into these simple alignment boundaries and they could thus be omitted (granting more leevay and depth to the character).
#13 gotten Dec 13, 2003 17:25:14	Originally posted by DennisKuester I picture Strahd as someone who´d usually stick to his word like a LE character would do - but there may be exceptions, and those could be devastating (there´s the bloodlust after all). Still, he´s honored his pact with the vistani for quite some time now, didn´t he? Isn't NE more close to his behavior ? i.e. chaotic and self centered, but also able to make pacts and respect them ? Actually, I think that the alignment descriptor could be completely dropped for major RL villains. For minor NPCs it´s often convenient to just look up their alignment and play along - but characters like Strahd don´t seem to fit into these simple alignment boundaries and they could thus be omitted (granting more leevay and depth to the character). Interesting idea. Joël
#14 zombiegleemax Dec 14, 2003 15:17:39	Originally posted by DennisKuester maybe we could just make him "evil" without the lawful/neutral/chaotic descriptor? Actually, I think that the alignment descriptor could be completely dropped for major RL villains. For minor NPCs it´s often convenient to just look up their alignment and play along - but characters like Strahd don´t seem to fit into these simple alignment boundaries and they could thus be omitted (granting more leevay and depth to the character). I agree with this. For me, the ethical aspect of alignments is just the base upon which the character's personnality is constructed. Strahd's personnality is well established beyond that.
#15 rucht_lilavivat Dec 14, 2003 22:53:26	Originally posted by Gotten [b]Isn't NE more close to his behavior ? i.e. chaotic and self centered, but also able to make pacts and respect them ? Interesting idea. Joël That's certainly possible. I've always seen Strahd as someone who would "honor" their word so long as it suited them. And having an alliance with the powerful Vistani would suit just about anyone. ;) But I would also agree that Strahd has sort of "transcended" the traditional definition of alignment.
#16 andrew_cermak Dec 15, 2003 0:24:36	For me, the best way to determine whether Strahd should be LE is to compare him to someone who is, no questions asked, LE, and see if he "measures up." So, for a moment, let's compare Strahd to his major rival, Azalin, who I don't think anyone would argue is Lawful Evil through and through. Azalin executed his son Irik for treason. He didn't want to, but he did it because he "had" to; Irik had committed a crime and had to face the appropriate penalty. Azalin now desires nothing more than to uncover some arcane secret that will enable him to return his son to life, but to this day he does not believe (or claims not to believe) that he was wrong in executing his son. So, ask yourself...would Strahd execute someone dear to him, even though it was against his own wishes, because the law required him to do so? Would he execute, say, Tatyana, for the sole reason that the law required her death? I don't think he would. The law serves Strahd, not the other way around. He will kill for pleasure, he will kill for passion, he will kill for hunger, but he will not kill contrary to his interests and desires. That's an example of why he's Chaotic Evil.
#17 john_w._mangrum Dec 15, 2003 1:04:14	To tack onto what Andrew just wrote, I feel that Strahd's rule over Barovia is grounded in possession. He oversees it and "protects" it because it's his, and he takes any outside threat to it personally. As AC says, Strahd uses the law because it serves him. When and where the law doesn't serve him, he ignores it or changes the law. He also has that little tendency of his to go on rage-fueled rampages, slaughtering everyone in his castle when weddings get ruined. All that said, though, I feel that Strahd is one of many characters in Ravenloft who, if asked, would identify themselves as having much different alignments than they actually hold. I suspect Strahd would label himself as lawful neutral. Once upon a time, in his younger days, that might even have been true.
#18 zombiegleemax Dec 15, 2003 8:04:18	Originally posted by Andrew Cermak For me, the best way to determine whether Strahd should be LE is to compare him to someone who is, no questions asked, LE, and see if he "measures up." So, for a moment, let's compare Strahd to his major rival, Azalin, who I don't think anyone would argue is Lawful Evil through and through. Azalin executed his son Irik for treason. He didn't want to, but he did it because he "had" to; Irik had committed a crime and had to face the appropriate penalty. Azalin now desires nothing more than to uncover some arcane secret that will enable him to return his son to life, but to this day he does not believe (or claims not to believe) that he was wrong in executing his son. So, ask yourself...would Strahd execute someone dear to him, even though it was against his own wishes, because the law required him to do so? Would he execute, say, Tatyana, for the sole reason that the law required her death? I don't think he would. The law serves Strahd, not the other way around. He will kill for pleasure, he will kill for passion, he will kill for hunger, but he will not kill contrary to his interests and desires. That's an example of why he's Chaotic Evil. Azalin could also be seen as Chaotic if you look in his actions, The Grim Harvest comes to mind, He killed his son for Legal reasons but his wife was an other story, letting a night Hag loose because she didn't suit his purpose (not caring what she would to to his population), Made magical experiments on captive women to see if he could engener himself a son, the barons and lords underhim seem to have as much life expectancy as the Burgomasters in Barovia. So Azalin isn't the pragmatical example of Lawfull Evil
#19 mortavius Dec 15, 2003 9:34:23	But the Grim Harvest had a purpose; it wasn't just random murder. It was to collect life energy for Azalin's transformation. I forget how he killed his wife (I thought she died naturally?). As for Styrix, I bet if Styrix went on a rampage, Azalin would step in real quickly. Azalin doesn't care about his people the way that Strahd does (ie. possessively). But he doesn't want to see them slaughtered by a monster for no reason. Sorry Northern_spur, but everything you quoted has a purpose as far as I can see, and it pretty much seems lawful to me.
#20 zombiegleemax Dec 15, 2003 10:12:11	Originally posted by Mortavius But the Grim Harvest had a purpose; it wasn't just random murder. It was to collect life energy for Azalin's transformation. I forget how he killed his wife (I thought she died naturally?). As for Styrix, I bet if Styrix went on a rampage, Azalin would step in real quickly. Azalin doesn't care about his people the way that Strahd does (ie. possessively). But he doesn't want to see them slaughtered by a monster for no reason. Sorry Northern_spur, but everything you quoted has a purpose as far as I can see, and it pretty much seems lawful to me. Purpose isn't enghouh to be Enghou, did the people he killed tried to rebel againts him? where they criminals who needed to die? He gatthered the souls in the grim Harvest for his own greed, to escape his prison. While he din't give the blow that killed his wife, he made sure she wouldn't survive, he killed the man she loved, and easly had the power to prevent her death and sufferring. But He made sure that she knew of his deed, and made her suffering worst. Azalin simply doesn't care what Strix does, as long as it still benifits him. If wiping Martina's Bay from the map is what it took for him to escape or something he realy wanted, Azalin wouldn't think twice.
#21 andrew_cermak Dec 15, 2003 14:01:24	Originally posted by Northen_Spur Azalin could also be seen as Chaotic if you look in his actions, The examples you gave are of Evil actions, not necessarily Chaotic ones. Azalin did not initiate the Grim Harvest on a whim, or in a rage. It was a calculated effort with a calculated goal. The deaths involved were necessary sacrifices from his perspective, not desired but unavoidable. Also, Darkon is a different kingdom than the one he ruled on Oerth, and I doubt very much that it's a constitutional monarchy. He probably does have the legal right to sacrifice his subjects to grand projects, much as the Pharaohs or Kings of Ur woud have.