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The Arak - A Different Take.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
mortavius
Dec 16, 2003 1:52:30 Hey all.

I'm currently converting The Shadow Rift to 3.5E for my games, and I have come upon a notion which I would like to garner opinions on. In creating the Arak for 3.5E, I have thought about it, and why not just make the various breeds of the Arak 1 HD creatures? Then, to make them as they are portrayed in the book, simply give them classes.

For example, the Muryan. Give them their special attacks & qualities, their damage reduction, and spellcasting. But make their spellcasting a function of their HD. As well, you can then simply make the Muryan a 5th level Fighter, and having only 1 natural HD, it's class HD will replace it's natural one. The Alven could be Druids, the Brag & Fir could be Experts, the Portune could be Clerics (but of what Gods?), the Powrie could be Rogues, the Shee could be Bards, the Sith could be Wizards (Necromancers), and the Teg could be Rangers. These of course are just the classes naturally suited to them; there could easily be a Brag Sorcerer or a Powrie Monk.

I've worked out the stats, and they tend to work very nicely, creating the feel of the Arak, I think. So far I've only experimented with this method with the Muryan however.

Insights?
#2
The_Jester
Dec 16, 2003 3:24:01 Giving them favoured classes wouldn't be a bad idea and allowing them to take class levels works with 3E.
But that doesn't mean they should all be 1HD with no special abilities...
Shee and Sith are designed to be harder to kill than run of the mill Arak, while other Alven are far weaker. There should be some range to the hit dice otherwise it would hint the majority of once race is all higher levels than another.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 16, 2003 3:54:20 The developer of Forlorn had this question, if anyone knows the answer:

On the lower left hand column of p.69 of Gaz 1 the Good Folk are mentioned. Since some are Shadow Fay, first I'm assuming all in that block are Shadow Fay.

Also, are these Shadow Fay that are spreading out from the Rift?
Or are these a different group?

Finally if these belong to the Shadow Fay:
Buwrae
Amadan lochran
Banflur clann

Are these listed in the Shadow Rift material, and if so which templates?

Is this something that is addressed in Van Ritchen's Guide to the Shadow Fay?

If
Buwrae
Amadan lochran
Banflur clann
are something already mentioned in the Shadow Rift book can I be told which Arak they are so we, the developers can begin adding them to Forlorn?

Thank you for your time.

~Andrew
#4
The_Jester
Dec 16, 2003 5:41:08 No templates in the Shadow Rift because it is 2E. Rough write up of a handfull of Shadow Fey is in the Denzines of Darkness book.'

I think the Fofarian legends are just a nod to Celtic mythology and folklore, of which the Fey and wee folk are a big part. The Shadow Fey of the Rift are heavily inspired by these myths.
This is more a nod to the similarity than outright tying of the two lands. Although it is possible that there may be a Mistway from the Rift to somewhere in Forlorn. We'll have to wait for Gaz V to find out for sure. Or VRG: Shadow Fey to see if there are any new additions or Fey from other places than the Rift.
#5
tryst_91
Dec 16, 2003 10:19:57 hey since i am the one doing forlorn and actually had the question i felt i might need to clarify.

In the gaz it does mention those three new "fey" creatures for forlorn that players should be wary of, but it goes no description what-so-ever. Now in there it also states that one of the druid factions is trying to lure "the good folk" from the lands to the north and S doesnt believe them until they show her what she takes to be a pseudodragon... i figured that it is more based off celtic myth since i have the shadow rift assessory but upon doing a search for said creature i have thusfar been completely unable to locate ANYTHING on them. I was hoping that perhaps the writers of the gaz could enlighten me so that our beloved Forlorn could become even more Forlorn-like.

Tryst
#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 16, 2003 11:19:16 No they aren't just a nod, because some of the Shadow Fay they list as being in Forlorn ARE in the Shadow Rift book. I consider it a direct tie to both lands because the teg and sidhe who are Arak are mentioned as well as the Druids stating that they are returning to the land.

In the prime material they had their good folk, and the Arak must be similar enough, that the Druids refer to the Arak by good folk names. They are "returning" because some Arak have found their way there. Why they couldn't leave us all alone and stay in the Rift is beyond me, but they are here now and the sooner we know what they are and how to fight them, the sooner we can exterminate them. .:D

I was enquiring to the 3 we can't issolate yet. I'll check the Dezins book to see if any are in there, and if any mention of their Forlorn names are given.

I know the Shadow Rift is 2E
I meant templates as in what the literal traslation is-
Buwrae - its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________
Amadan lochran- its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________
Banflur clann- its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________

I would assume the Arak don't need a special mode of travel like a mist way. They could just hoof it. Lolt came out of the Rift and traveled around so no reason others don't. They also were in (was it Tepest?) where they were making changlings?
Who cares where it was. They could travel anywhere as long as they seek shelter during the day.
#7
mortavius
Dec 16, 2003 11:26:21
Originally posted by The_Jester
Giving them favoured classes wouldn't be a bad idea and allowing them to take class levels works with 3E.
But that doesn't mean they should all be 1HD with no special abilities...
Shee and Sith are designed to be harder to kill than run of the mill Arak, while other Alven are far weaker. There should be some range to the hit dice otherwise it would hint the majority of once race is all higher levels than another.

Note Jester, that I actually said to give them all their special abilities.

And I can understand that Shee & Sith are supposed to be more powerful, but at the same time, here's the bit that nags at me. The Shadow Fey as a whole are a people; there are many Shee, Sith, Powrie, etc. all throughout the Rift. And they ALL have 5-7 HD? What about the "commoners" of the Shadow Rift society? The untrained members? Sure, they have their Damage Reduction and other mystical powers, but their HD is only 1d6 (standard for Fey). The Brag would probably have good Constitutions, so they would have bonus HP, making them tougher; perhaps the Alven would have weaker Constitutions, making them weaker.

I'm just saying that for the module, to maintain balance, one could make the encounters with the Muryan encounters with 5th level Fighter Muryan, so as to keep the module as close to how it was written.
#8
mortavius
Dec 16, 2003 11:28:23
Originally posted by daffy72
I know the Shadow Rift is 2E
I meant templates as in what the literal traslation is-
Buwrae - its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________

Well, sounds to me like that one might be a translation error between the languages of the Domains. Reads phoenetically like "Boowray" and they are detailed in Denizens of Darkness.
#9
zombiegleemax
Dec 16, 2003 13:17:25
Originally posted by Mortavius
What about the "commoners" of the Shadow Rift society? The untrained members? Sure, they have their Damage Reduction and other mystical powers, but their HD is only 1d6 (standard for Fey).

Changelings and Kin.

"Untrained" members implies more out and out humanity than I really see the Arak as having. They create Kin just so they don't have to do the "boring" stuff.
#10
The_Jester
Dec 16, 2003 15:39:51
Originally posted by Mortavius
Note Jester, that I actually said to give them all their special abilities.

And I can understand that Shee & Sith are supposed to be more powerful, but at the same time, here's the bit that nags at me. The Shadow Fey as a whole are a people; there are many Shee, Sith, Powrie, etc. all throughout the Rift. And they ALL have 5-7 HD? What about the "commoners" of the Shadow Rift society? The untrained members? Sure, they have their Damage Reduction and other mystical powers, but their HD is only 1d6 (standard for Fey). The Brag would probably have good Constitutions, so they would have bonus HP, making them tougher; perhaps the Alven would have weaker Constitutions, making them weaker.

I'm just saying that for the module, to maintain balance, one could make the encounters with the Muryan encounters with 5th level Fighter Muryan, so as to keep the module as close to how it was written.

But an elf in the MM is just a 1st level warrior, about as common as you can get, for high levels you all but need to advance them some. But other monsters start out with high Hit Dice from the getgo due to higher powers.
I'd say the same for Shadow Fey (with and E). Weak ones like Alven, Fir or Portune are better served with a few classes just to be comperable to their brethern.

Perhaps the Forlon thing was going to be a Dread Possibility but the text was trunciated for lack of space. Or they decided not to go into detail because there was so little on the Fey to follow up on that story line.
#11
zombiegleemax
Dec 16, 2003 16:27:08 why would it be a dread possibility? we arent talking about anything special here.

evil and undead treants went from forlorn up to the area of the rift.. they could have found out about Forlorn that way, or they could have just appeared there because of the mists. Or maybe they went cause they heard it was a huge forest with little to no humans to worry about.

I don't care why they are there. I just want to know who the 3 are. Or could be.

Mortavius had a good educated guess as to one. Sounds good to me.
#12
zombiegleemax
Dec 16, 2003 16:28:32 Thanks Mortavius
#13
The_Jester
Dec 16, 2003 22:28:07 Well google the names or check the Encylopedia Mythica and see what comes up then compare the descriptions with pre-existing monsters.
As for why they can't have walked from the Rift, there's no reason why they couldn't have. I just see it as risky for them to take long treks as they die from exposre to the sun. I can see them only making short treks.
#14
tryst_91
Dec 16, 2003 22:51:43 actually both of those sources were the first ones i checked. As i stated, we can't find anything on them.

tryst
#15
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2003 2:52:55 Hope this doesn't sound too cheeky Mortavius, but I would love to see your 3e take on the entity Gwydion please???
#16
mortavius
Dec 17, 2003 10:08:31 Not cheeky at all, Kossie. However, it will be awhile. I'm converting the book from start to finish, and of course, Gwydion doesn't come in until the end.
#17
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2003 23:52:05 Straight from the horse's mouth:

Buwrae is a Forfarian-ization of boowray.

Amadan lochran translates to 'fool's lantern,' is is Forfarian for will-o'-wisp.

The banflur clann are the 'white-flower children,' fey spirits of disease that are tied to certain white flowers. These are a personal creation that I pulled from my notes. I think they've been sitting in my collection of sketches for a good five years at least.

As a note, although no-one asked about it, the rhare-ceann's fhuil-cnaimh is the infamous boogy Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones. The appelation 'the black vengeance' came from the idea that the Forfarians could, if they were desperate and amoral enough, call up Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones to avenge a grevious wrong done to their family. Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones would slay as many of the offending family as it could in a night, but only at the price of a life from the summoner's family. I my mind's eye, Rhare-Ceann's Fhuil-Cnaimh is a kind of undead-like fey, all skull-face and wet muscle, wreathed in a smoke-like transparent darkness.

Chris Nichols
#18
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2003 23:56:16
Originally posted by CNichols
The appelation 'the black vengeance' came from the idea that the Forfarians could, if they were desperate and amoral enough, call up Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones to avenge a grevious wrong done to their family.

Hey, sorta like in African-American folktales... cool!
#19
zombiegleemax
Dec 18, 2003 0:16:47 Thanks for the explaination Chris. I appreciate it.

~Andrew
#20
tryst_91
Dec 18, 2003 1:54:54 Chris,

Hey i really appreciate the clarification. I want forlorn to be as authentic as possible and since you made it a point to have those creatures in the book, i figured there is some signifcance to them. You beat me to the punch too, because i was actually going to ask about the rhare-ceann's fhuil-cnaimh as soon as i got off work. (which is now) Anyway i really do appreciate the imput! You did a magnificent job on forlorn by the way!

Tryst
#21
zombiegleemax
Dec 18, 2003 2:14:42 I must point out that the Forlorn (and Hazlan) gazetteer wouldn't have been half so good were it not for my skilled and talented co-author, Andrew Cermak.

Chris Nichols
#22
tryst_91
Dec 18, 2003 2:34:05 Well then, i truely do thank you both and would like to say that any imput at all you guys would like to give would be extremely appreciated in making forlorn a NWN reality.

tryst

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mortavius Dec 16, 2003 1:52:30	Hey all. I'm currently converting The Shadow Rift to 3.5E for my games, and I have come upon a notion which I would like to garner opinions on. In creating the Arak for 3.5E, I have thought about it, and why not just make the various breeds of the Arak 1 HD creatures? Then, to make them as they are portrayed in the book, simply give them classes. For example, the Muryan. Give them their special attacks & qualities, their damage reduction, and spellcasting. But make their spellcasting a function of their HD. As well, you can then simply make the Muryan a 5th level Fighter, and having only 1 natural HD, it's class HD will replace it's natural one. The Alven could be Druids, the Brag & Fir could be Experts, the Portune could be Clerics (but of what Gods?), the Powrie could be Rogues, the Shee could be Bards, the Sith could be Wizards (Necromancers), and the Teg could be Rangers. These of course are just the classes naturally suited to them; there could easily be a Brag Sorcerer or a Powrie Monk. I've worked out the stats, and they tend to work very nicely, creating the feel of the Arak, I think. So far I've only experimented with this method with the Muryan however. Insights?
#2 The_Jester Dec 16, 2003 3:24:01	Giving them favoured classes wouldn't be a bad idea and allowing them to take class levels works with 3E. But that doesn't mean they should all be 1HD with no special abilities... Shee and Sith are designed to be harder to kill than run of the mill Arak, while other Alven are far weaker. There should be some range to the hit dice otherwise it would hint the majority of once race is all higher levels than another.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2003 3:54:20	The developer of Forlorn had this question, if anyone knows the answer: On the lower left hand column of p.69 of Gaz 1 the Good Folk are mentioned. Since some are Shadow Fay, first I'm assuming all in that block are Shadow Fay. Also, are these Shadow Fay that are spreading out from the Rift? Or are these a different group? Finally if these belong to the Shadow Fay: Buwrae Amadan lochran Banflur clann Are these listed in the Shadow Rift material, and if so which templates? Is this something that is addressed in Van Ritchen's Guide to the Shadow Fay? If Buwrae Amadan lochran Banflur clann are something already mentioned in the Shadow Rift book can I be told which Arak they are so we, the developers can begin adding them to Forlorn? Thank you for your time. ~Andrew
#4 The_Jester Dec 16, 2003 5:41:08	No templates in the Shadow Rift because it is 2E. Rough write up of a handfull of Shadow Fey is in the Denzines of Darkness book.' I think the Fofarian legends are just a nod to Celtic mythology and folklore, of which the Fey and wee folk are a big part. The Shadow Fey of the Rift are heavily inspired by these myths. This is more a nod to the similarity than outright tying of the two lands. Although it is possible that there may be a Mistway from the Rift to somewhere in Forlorn. We'll have to wait for Gaz V to find out for sure. Or VRG: Shadow Fey to see if there are any new additions or Fey from other places than the Rift.
#5 tryst_91 Dec 16, 2003 10:19:57	hey since i am the one doing forlorn and actually had the question i felt i might need to clarify. In the gaz it does mention those three new "fey" creatures for forlorn that players should be wary of, but it goes no description what-so-ever. Now in there it also states that one of the druid factions is trying to lure "the good folk" from the lands to the north and S doesnt believe them until they show her what she takes to be a pseudodragon... i figured that it is more based off celtic myth since i have the shadow rift assessory but upon doing a search for said creature i have thusfar been completely unable to locate ANYTHING on them. I was hoping that perhaps the writers of the gaz could enlighten me so that our beloved Forlorn could become even more Forlorn-like. Tryst
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2003 11:19:16	No they aren't just a nod, because some of the Shadow Fay they list as being in Forlorn ARE in the Shadow Rift book. I consider it a direct tie to both lands because the teg and sidhe who are Arak are mentioned as well as the Druids stating that they are returning to the land. In the prime material they had their good folk, and the Arak must be similar enough, that the Druids refer to the Arak by good folk names. They are "returning" because some Arak have found their way there. Why they couldn't leave us all alone and stay in the Rift is beyond me, but they are here now and the sooner we know what they are and how to fight them, the sooner we can exterminate them. .:D I was enquiring to the 3 we can't issolate yet. I'll check the Dezins book to see if any are in there, and if any mention of their Forlorn names are given. I know the Shadow Rift is 2E I meant templates as in what the literal traslation is- Buwrae - its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________ Amadan lochran- its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________ Banflur clann- its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________ I would assume the Arak don't need a special mode of travel like a mist way. They could just hoof it. Lolt came out of the Rift and traveled around so no reason others don't. They also were in (was it Tepest?) where they were making changlings? Who cares where it was. They could travel anywhere as long as they seek shelter during the day.
#7 mortavius Dec 16, 2003 11:26:21	Originally posted by The_Jester Giving them favoured classes wouldn't be a bad idea and allowing them to take class levels works with 3E. But that doesn't mean they should all be 1HD with no special abilities... Shee and Sith are designed to be harder to kill than run of the mill Arak, while other Alven are far weaker. There should be some range to the hit dice otherwise it would hint the majority of once race is all higher levels than another. Note Jester, that I actually said to give them all their special abilities. And I can understand that Shee & Sith are supposed to be more powerful, but at the same time, here's the bit that nags at me. The Shadow Fey as a whole are a people; there are many Shee, Sith, Powrie, etc. all throughout the Rift. And they ALL have 5-7 HD? What about the "commoners" of the Shadow Rift society? The untrained members? Sure, they have their Damage Reduction and other mystical powers, but their HD is only 1d6 (standard for Fey). The Brag would probably have good Constitutions, so they would have bonus HP, making them tougher; perhaps the Alven would have weaker Constitutions, making them weaker. I'm just saying that for the module, to maintain balance, one could make the encounters with the Muryan encounters with 5th level Fighter Muryan, so as to keep the module as close to how it was written.
#8 mortavius Dec 16, 2003 11:28:23	Originally posted by daffy72 I know the Shadow Rift is 2E I meant templates as in what the literal traslation is- Buwrae - its Arak/ Shadow Fay name is ____________ Well, sounds to me like that one might be a translation error between the languages of the Domains. Reads phoenetically like "Boowray" and they are detailed in Denizens of Darkness.
#9 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2003 13:17:25	Originally posted by Mortavius What about the "commoners" of the Shadow Rift society? The untrained members? Sure, they have their Damage Reduction and other mystical powers, but their HD is only 1d6 (standard for Fey). Changelings and Kin. "Untrained" members implies more out and out humanity than I really see the Arak as having. They create Kin just so they don't have to do the "boring" stuff.
#10 The_Jester Dec 16, 2003 15:39:51	Originally posted by Mortavius Note Jester, that I actually said to give them all their special abilities. And I can understand that Shee & Sith are supposed to be more powerful, but at the same time, here's the bit that nags at me. The Shadow Fey as a whole are a people; there are many Shee, Sith, Powrie, etc. all throughout the Rift. And they ALL have 5-7 HD? What about the "commoners" of the Shadow Rift society? The untrained members? Sure, they have their Damage Reduction and other mystical powers, but their HD is only 1d6 (standard for Fey). The Brag would probably have good Constitutions, so they would have bonus HP, making them tougher; perhaps the Alven would have weaker Constitutions, making them weaker. I'm just saying that for the module, to maintain balance, one could make the encounters with the Muryan encounters with 5th level Fighter Muryan, so as to keep the module as close to how it was written. But an elf in the MM is just a 1st level warrior, about as common as you can get, for high levels you all but need to advance them some. But other monsters start out with high Hit Dice from the getgo due to higher powers. I'd say the same for Shadow Fey (with and E). Weak ones like Alven, Fir or Portune are better served with a few classes just to be comperable to their brethern. Perhaps the Forlon thing was going to be a Dread Possibility but the text was trunciated for lack of space. Or they decided not to go into detail because there was so little on the Fey to follow up on that story line.
#11 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2003 16:27:08	why would it be a dread possibility? we arent talking about anything special here. evil and undead treants went from forlorn up to the area of the rift.. they could have found out about Forlorn that way, or they could have just appeared there because of the mists. Or maybe they went cause they heard it was a huge forest with little to no humans to worry about. I don't care why they are there. I just want to know who the 3 are. Or could be. Mortavius had a good educated guess as to one. Sounds good to me.
#12 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2003 16:28:32	Thanks Mortavius
#13 The_Jester Dec 16, 2003 22:28:07	Well google the names or check the Encylopedia Mythica and see what comes up then compare the descriptions with pre-existing monsters. As for why they can't have walked from the Rift, there's no reason why they couldn't have. I just see it as risky for them to take long treks as they die from exposre to the sun. I can see them only making short treks.
#14 tryst_91 Dec 16, 2003 22:51:43	actually both of those sources were the first ones i checked. As i stated, we can't find anything on them. tryst
#15 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2003 2:52:55	Hope this doesn't sound too cheeky Mortavius, but I would love to see your 3e take on the entity Gwydion please???
#16 mortavius Dec 17, 2003 10:08:31	Not cheeky at all, Kossie. However, it will be awhile. I'm converting the book from start to finish, and of course, Gwydion doesn't come in until the end.
#17 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2003 23:52:05	Straight from the horse's mouth: Buwrae is a Forfarian-ization of boowray. Amadan lochran translates to 'fool's lantern,' is is Forfarian for will-o'-wisp. The banflur clann are the 'white-flower children,' fey spirits of disease that are tied to certain white flowers. These are a personal creation that I pulled from my notes. I think they've been sitting in my collection of sketches for a good five years at least. As a note, although no-one asked about it, the rhare-ceann's fhuil-cnaimh is the infamous boogy Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones. The appelation 'the black vengeance' came from the idea that the Forfarians could, if they were desperate and amoral enough, call up Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones to avenge a grevious wrong done to their family. Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones would slay as many of the offending family as it could in a night, but only at the price of a life from the summoner's family. I my mind's eye, Rhare-Ceann's Fhuil-Cnaimh is a kind of undead-like fey, all skull-face and wet muscle, wreathed in a smoke-like transparent darkness. Chris Nichols
#18 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2003 23:56:16	Originally posted by CNichols The appelation 'the black vengeance' came from the idea that the Forfarians could, if they were desperate and amoral enough, call up Raw-Head-And-Bloody-Bones to avenge a grevious wrong done to their family. Hey, sorta like in African-American folktales... cool!
#19 zombiegleemax Dec 18, 2003 0:16:47	Thanks for the explaination Chris. I appreciate it. ~Andrew
#20 tryst_91 Dec 18, 2003 1:54:54	Chris, Hey i really appreciate the clarification. I want forlorn to be as authentic as possible and since you made it a point to have those creatures in the book, i figured there is some signifcance to them. You beat me to the punch too, because i was actually going to ask about the rhare-ceann's fhuil-cnaimh as soon as i got off work. (which is now) Anyway i really do appreciate the imput! You did a magnificent job on forlorn by the way! Tryst
#21 zombiegleemax Dec 18, 2003 2:14:42	I must point out that the Forlorn (and Hazlan) gazetteer wouldn't have been half so good were it not for my skilled and talented co-author, Andrew Cermak. Chris Nichols
#22 tryst_91 Dec 18, 2003 2:34:05	Well then, i truely do thank you both and would like to say that any imput at all you guys would like to give would be extremely appreciated in making forlorn a NWN reality. tryst