Divine Punishment for awesome hubris - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Divine Punishment for awesome hubris

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Charles_Phipps
Dec 18, 2003 18:57:33 Well we just finished a game and my Player's PC has perplexed me again.

The character is a LE Wizard of the Qualinesti and we're playing to the Trilogy of the Twins from the war of the Lance with the fact the player has taken the role as Raistlin's OTHER apprentice.

Well the game took the epic level characters (Raistlin is 35th level in our games with 36th being automatic assumption of demigod status which he will achieve by devouring the essence of so much evil destroyed in his Abyss journey with Crystania)

The character is a 23rd level Black Robe and with the players journeyed to the Citadel of Gilean to do battle with a group of Takhasis's minions that were preparing her for her battle with Raistlin and her fellow gods by stealing the One Book.

Well of course the players thrawted the evil and saved Gilean whom had been imprisoned by a divine version of Takhasis's Dark Lances (a creation of my game)

The players were outsmarted though by Black Robe in what was the end game of Raistlin's chess match against Takhasis. Takhasis never believed Raistlin's minion would escape with Gilean's book (the one you read to become a god and he's fated to die if anyone else reads) and she would enter the world laughing to torture his pathetic demigod self for all eternity as she remade the Heavens.

The player showed up duely and truly on time with the book and Raistlin would be able to read it, becoming a greater God instantly and in his "homeplane" of Krynn. Gilean would automatically die and Nuthari along with the rest would throw their lot behind Raistlin as he waged war against the Neutrals to drain their power and let Takhasis live long enough to defeat the good

(hence the horrible future)

Well we know Raistlin died and playing it by ear the player now had the universe's most powerful relic. Epic confrontation with the PCs and former party member was what was in my mind and perhaps a new Evil deity!

No....

The Black Robe promptly returned to the party, apologized, explained the situation and going to the temple of palanthas the High High Priest of Paladin summoned an avatar of Paladin whom he asked to give back the book of Gilean

(his minions had now had time to pull out the dark lance with the players help)

The game session ended about there but the Black Robe more or less stated.

Here's his words which lead into the next session...

"The opportunity to be a God is not an unappealing one Lord Paladine but I am aware my teacher deserved such more. I have much more to learn before I crave such an exotic dish. Returning the book is the least reward I can give my teacher for all he has taugh me since I would assume this his will."

Okay....HOW THE HELL should the Neutral Gods punish him for this? Maybe the Good or Bad?

If at ALL oddly...the thought has occurred to me.
#2
jonesy
Dec 19, 2003 2:12:36 You mean Gilean right? Or do you really have Gilgeam in your campaign as a god?

I'm a little confused with your explanation as to what happened. Did Takhisis die or is she still around? To whom did the black robe ask the avatar to give the book back to? Is Gilean still alive? Why would the neutral gods be the ones to exact punishment if the black robe gives the book back? Why did the black robe go to a temple of Paladine? And why is he still a black robe if he is returning a neutral god's property with the help of a good god?
#3
Charles_Phipps
Dec 19, 2003 4:34:13 Mispelling Gilean's name is a common problem of mine.

Allow me to explain a few things....

The ending fits rather neatly into the Time of the Twins storyline.

1. Takhasis is still alive, having been denied entry to the world. Events transpired exactly as they did in Time of the Twins or whichever book was the third.

2. Because Cryos (another party member) is the Chosen of Paladin (concept stolen from FR I know) he summoned Paladin's avatar

Sort of the only God with direct access too at this point. Valance (the dark wizard) obviously couldn't hand it to Nuthari because he knew his shalafi would not want this and the book would instantly be read by the Dark Moon God for HIS benefit.

Valance's perspective on good is....stupid, naive, judgemental, weak, and hypocritical it may be but you can trust it.

3. Gilean is alive as well and probably escatic to get his book back since I imagine Paladine hands it over immediately to preserve the balance.

4. Were I to ask the man's player, I assume he'd probably say something like

"It was closer and more thematically appropriate than Astius's library"

5. Good question actually

Valance is something of a problem player in a world of absolute moralities. Suffice to say I don't think he's repentent about evil experimentation, world domination schemes, or likely to change his ways.

He's just honoring Raistlin's dying wish to not see the world's balance destroyed as a way of saying thanks for all the knowledge he bestowed upon him.

The points that occur to me though on WHICH gods will smack him down (if any are...)

* To the Good Gods this uppity mortal nearly killed Gilean and almost gave us unto Raistlin's evil

* Gilean.....aside from saving my red robed arse from Takhasis's minions...he nearly killed me and gave us up to Raistlin's evil

* Takhasis...ditto only Nuthari says

YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME THE BOOK OR RAISTLIN OR READ IT YOURSELF?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

Valance is an unusual case among evil PCs. He values his party's friendship and the love of his family (former PC) over power. As long as he's sure he has their grudging respect he's satisfied but never breaks his word and holds true to the spirit of his oaths

But he's still a ruthless, arrogant, and power mad wizard

Basically I need to know what sort of rewards or smackdown you think this warrants
#4
jonesy
Dec 19, 2003 5:13:19
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
* To the Good Gods this uppity mortal nearly killed Gilean and almost gave us unto Raistlin's evil

But still didn't kill Gilean and didn't go with Raist. I'd say the gods of good are big on forgiveness (being good and all) and would leave him be.

* Gilean.....aside from saving my red robed arse from Takhasis's minions...he nearly killed me and gave us up to Raistlin's evil

Almost killed, but then didn't, and gave the book back. The balance remains, Gilean is probably just content with the way things have turned out (thus far).

* Takhasis...ditto only Nuthari says

YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME THE BOOK OR RAISTLIN OR READ IT YOURSELF?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

Now this is where I see the Mr.Valance's problem. Nuitari will be royally angry at him.

Valance is an unusual case among evil PCs. He values his party's friendship and the love of his family (former PC) over power. As long as he's sure he has their grudging respect he's satisfied but never breaks his word and holds true to the spirit of his oaths.

But he's still a ruthless, arrogant, and power mad wizard.

Being ruthless, arrogant and power mad doesn't rank someone a black robe in my book. The actions of that person do. I see him turned into a red robe because of his actions. He hasn't gone good, he didn't side with evil, and he helped neutrality and the balance big time.

That, or make Nuitari demand something really major of him before he is allowed to remain what he is.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Charles_Phipps Dec 18, 2003 18:57:33	Well we just finished a game and my Player's PC has perplexed me again. The character is a LE Wizard of the Qualinesti and we're playing to the Trilogy of the Twins from the war of the Lance with the fact the player has taken the role as Raistlin's OTHER apprentice. Well the game took the epic level characters (Raistlin is 35th level in our games with 36th being automatic assumption of demigod status which he will achieve by devouring the essence of so much evil destroyed in his Abyss journey with Crystania) The character is a 23rd level Black Robe and with the players journeyed to the Citadel of Gilean to do battle with a group of Takhasis's minions that were preparing her for her battle with Raistlin and her fellow gods by stealing the One Book. Well of course the players thrawted the evil and saved Gilean whom had been imprisoned by a divine version of Takhasis's Dark Lances (a creation of my game) The players were outsmarted though by Black Robe in what was the end game of Raistlin's chess match against Takhasis. Takhasis never believed Raistlin's minion would escape with Gilean's book (the one you read to become a god and he's fated to die if anyone else reads) and she would enter the world laughing to torture his pathetic demigod self for all eternity as she remade the Heavens. The player showed up duely and truly on time with the book and Raistlin would be able to read it, becoming a greater God instantly and in his "homeplane" of Krynn. Gilean would automatically die and Nuthari along with the rest would throw their lot behind Raistlin as he waged war against the Neutrals to drain their power and let Takhasis live long enough to defeat the good (hence the horrible future) Well we know Raistlin died and playing it by ear the player now had the universe's most powerful relic. Epic confrontation with the PCs and former party member was what was in my mind and perhaps a new Evil deity! No.... The Black Robe promptly returned to the party, apologized, explained the situation and going to the temple of palanthas the High High Priest of Paladin summoned an avatar of Paladin whom he asked to give back the book of Gilean (his minions had now had time to pull out the dark lance with the players help) The game session ended about there but the Black Robe more or less stated. Here's his words which lead into the next session... "The opportunity to be a God is not an unappealing one Lord Paladine but I am aware my teacher deserved such more. I have much more to learn before I crave such an exotic dish. Returning the book is the least reward I can give my teacher for all he has taugh me since I would assume this his will." Okay....HOW THE HELL should the Neutral Gods punish him for this? Maybe the Good or Bad? If at ALL oddly...the thought has occurred to me.
#2 jonesy Dec 19, 2003 2:12:36	You mean Gilean right? Or do you really have Gilgeam in your campaign as a god? I'm a little confused with your explanation as to what happened. Did Takhisis die or is she still around? To whom did the black robe ask the avatar to give the book back to? Is Gilean still alive? Why would the neutral gods be the ones to exact punishment if the black robe gives the book back? Why did the black robe go to a temple of Paladine? And why is he still a black robe if he is returning a neutral god's property with the help of a good god?
#3 Charles_Phipps Dec 19, 2003 4:34:13	Mispelling Gilean's name is a common problem of mine. Allow me to explain a few things.... The ending fits rather neatly into the Time of the Twins storyline. 1. Takhasis is still alive, having been denied entry to the world. Events transpired exactly as they did in Time of the Twins or whichever book was the third. 2. Because Cryos (another party member) is the Chosen of Paladin (concept stolen from FR I know) he summoned Paladin's avatar Sort of the only God with direct access too at this point. Valance (the dark wizard) obviously couldn't hand it to Nuthari because he knew his shalafi would not want this and the book would instantly be read by the Dark Moon God for HIS benefit. Valance's perspective on good is....stupid, naive, judgemental, weak, and hypocritical it may be but you can trust it. 3. Gilean is alive as well and probably escatic to get his book back since I imagine Paladine hands it over immediately to preserve the balance. 4. Were I to ask the man's player, I assume he'd probably say something like "It was closer and more thematically appropriate than Astius's library" 5. Good question actually Valance is something of a problem player in a world of absolute moralities. Suffice to say I don't think he's repentent about evil experimentation, world domination schemes, or likely to change his ways. He's just honoring Raistlin's dying wish to not see the world's balance destroyed as a way of saying thanks for all the knowledge he bestowed upon him. The points that occur to me though on WHICH gods will smack him down (if any are...) * To the Good Gods this uppity mortal nearly killed Gilean and almost gave us unto Raistlin's evil * Gilean.....aside from saving my red robed arse from Takhasis's minions...he nearly killed me and gave us up to Raistlin's evil * Takhasis...ditto only Nuthari says YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME THE BOOK OR RAISTLIN OR READ IT YOURSELF?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!? Valance is an unusual case among evil PCs. He values his party's friendship and the love of his family (former PC) over power. As long as he's sure he has their grudging respect he's satisfied but never breaks his word and holds true to the spirit of his oaths But he's still a ruthless, arrogant, and power mad wizard Basically I need to know what sort of rewards or smackdown you think this warrants
#4 jonesy Dec 19, 2003 5:13:19	Originally posted by Charles Phipps * To the Good Gods this uppity mortal nearly killed Gilean and almost gave us unto Raistlin's evil But still didn't kill Gilean and didn't go with Raist. I'd say the gods of good are big on forgiveness (being good and all) and would leave him be. * Gilean.....aside from saving my red robed arse from Takhasis's minions...he nearly killed me and gave us up to Raistlin's evil Almost killed, but then didn't, and gave the book back. The balance remains, Gilean is probably just content with the way things have turned out (thus far). * Takhasis...ditto only Nuthari says YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME THE BOOK OR RAISTLIN OR READ IT YOURSELF?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!? Now this is where I see the Mr.Valance's problem. Nuitari will be royally angry at him. Valance is an unusual case among evil PCs. He values his party's friendship and the love of his family (former PC) over power. As long as he's sure he has their grudging respect he's satisfied but never breaks his word and holds true to the spirit of his oaths. But he's still a ruthless, arrogant, and power mad wizard. Being ruthless, arrogant and power mad doesn't rank someone a black robe in my book. The actions of that person do. I see him turned into a red robe because of his actions. He hasn't gone good, he didn't side with evil, and he helped neutrality and the balance big time. That, or make Nuitari demand something really major of him before he is allowed to remain what he is.