Variant Classes

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

crossover-chronicler

Dec 20, 2003 0:43:42
I'm working on reinventing Ravenloft to suit my own DMing ends. At present, I am working only with Ravenloft 3rd edition, and Denizens of Darkness though I will eventually regain my copies of Heroes of Light and Gazetteer (...whichever one studies Barovia, Kartakass, Hazlan, and Forlorn). I am at present working with the 3.5 Player's Handbook and the SRD, as well as a handful of other 3.0 supplements and Complete Warrior. In addition to standard classes, I will likely allow the variant base classes from CW (though Samurai will have limitations on originating Domain)

Generally, RL3e tends to weaken many character classes without offering much in the way of compensation, a tendency I intend to balance with house rules.

Here I am laying out the general ideas for the changes I'm thinking of making:
Magic: Magic in Ravenloft is rare and morally suspect. "Secondary" spellcasters are less suited to the setting, especially as paladins and rangers often come upon their callings "intuitively." Paladins and Rangers will use the non-spellcasting Complete Warrior variants.

Barbarians:
Rage: Barbarians are used to reacting to situations with anger. A Barbarian may choose the "rage" effect of a failed Horror check upon failing any Fear or Horror check. This does not count toward the number of times per day a Barbarian can Rage.

Bards:
Bardic Music: Nonevil Bards may use "Tales of Death and Madness," and must beat the DC by only 7. Less brutal bards use their skills to frighten away enemies rather than fight them.
Five ranks in knowledge (local), knowledge (history) or knowledge (religion) check can allow a Bard to tailor the song to his audience, gaining a +2 synergy bonus to his Perform checks.
Bardic Knowledge: Curses of Vengeance can be amplified by calling upon dark forces or forces of vengeance. A successful Bardic Knowledge check (DC 25) can add a +2 circumstance bonus to a curse check.

Clerics:
Clerics are generally unchanged, though the "channelling" options from Defenders of the Faith will be in use.

Druids:
Druids are generally unchanged, save that a Druid is closely tied to the land. A Druid may perceive a Domain border or reality wrinkle within line of sight with a spot check (DC 20). A druid may opt to automatically fail the dark powers check when laying a curse of vengeance. Knowledge(ravenloft) is a class skill.

Fighters and Monks: These classes are not altered, and need little to no further alteration.

[b]Paladins:[/b]
divine grace: The paladin's aura of "divine grace" functions as an "outcast rating" when dealing with evil characters, rather than influencing reactions alone.
aura of courage: This class ability is reinstated. While this may not suit a "horror" game, I run Ravenloft more like "dark fantasy." The dice should not force a paladin to violate his code (by lacking valor) without some form of compulsion.
disruption: This quality has some minor benefits. The paladin's aura of good repels the being of the demiplane, leading to interesting effects. Paladins tend to be very clean, as dirt fails to cling to them. Also, paladins tend to be accompanied by strange "auras," such as breezes (caused by air driven from them) or tall grass parting at the paladin's approach. Witnesses may make a spot check (DC 25 minus the paladin's Charisma bonus, if positive) to recognize a paladin. This can also serve as a circumstance bonus to Bluff, Intimidate, or other social checks.
A paladin gains an additional +1 to Fortitude and Reflex saves, as the disrupting aura rejects and repels harmful substances.
A darklord can locate a paladin within his Domain with sucessful Wisdom check (DC of 20 minus the paladin's Charisma bonus), retried automatically every 24 hours.
detect evil: Paladins lose this ability, but do not gain detect chaos, which is generally unsuitable. Instead, the paladin develops a "domain sense." A paladin may sense whenever she crosses a Domain border as the border presses against her disrupting aura. Similarly, she can sense an Outsider's reality wrinkle. She can identify good and evil Outsiders with a Sense Motive check (resisted by the Outsider's will save, if it does not wish to be identified; possession hides such a creature with a "mental hide check," requiring the paladin to beat each roll individually to sense the fiend). A paladin may sense a Darklord's presence if within a range of 100ft with a successful Wisdom check (DC of 25 minus Darklord's Charisma bonus, if positive).
Special mount: This ability now summons a steed from the Mists. Once per day, the paladin can cast phantom steed with a caster level equal to his class level minus 2. Unlike a normal phantom steed, this mount can enter combat as a heavy warhorse with half the HD of its master. It still gains the "dread companion" template, but is among the most subtle and respectful of these companions (in order to maintain the paladin's trust). Such a steed is always summoned from, and composed of, the Mists.
smite evil: Because the demiplane itself is suffused with darkness, the paladin's smite ability is even more dramatic. When activated, it genetrally causes the paladin's weapon to flash and crackle, often leaving the smell of ozone. This power can be used in an attempt to damage some "evil" structures or objects.

Sorcerer, Wizard, and Hexblade (Complete Warrior):
Familiar: The hexblade's familiar gains the "dread companion" template. All spellcasters count as two levels higher for the purpose of having an Improved familiar, or for the purpose of crafting a guardian familiar.
EDIT: Hexblade's Curse: Instead of the normal curse, a Hexblade may lay an indefinite Embarrassing curse, or a Troublesome curse for the space of an hour.
Greater Hexblade's Curse: Instead of the normal curse, a Hexblade may lay an indefinite Troublesome curse, or a Dangerous curse for the space of an hour.
Dire Hexblade's Curse: Instead of the normal curse, a Hexblade may lay an indefinite Dangerous curse, or a Lethal curse for the space of an hour (this curse cannot include immediate death or permanent transformation).

Any Hexblade's Curse requires a Dark Powers check. Indefinite curses laid in this fashion must have an escape clause.

Where do balance issues arise? Am I overcompensating for the losses these classes suffer? Is this just a big waste of time? What flavor elements am I missing here?

[b]edit: don't have the Sithicus Gazetteer yet; all teh Sithican heroes in Heroes of Light confused me, as I'm still quoting from memory at present).
#2

john_w._mangrum

Dec 20, 2003 7:10:54
I think there's definitely some interesting variants here.
#3

belac

Dec 20, 2003 9:10:49
Very cool ideas, and along the lines of the sorts of changes I often make enough that I might actually use them in my game. 5 stars.

I don't see any obvious balance issues. If there are any, they're probably subtle. (I admit I don't know much about bards though.)

I haven't read Complete Warrior either, but I'm starting to want to now
#4

zombiegleemax

Dec 20, 2003 14:06:24
I like these. Any special quirks for the Ranger or Rogue?
#5

zombiegleemax

Dec 20, 2003 17:58:46
It looks interesting and well thought out. I like what you've done with the Paladin to represent "Dark Fantasy". By the Darklord check do you mean DC 20 minus the charisma bonus of the Paladin? If you are subtracting striaght cha then it seems likely that the DL will be making DCs or 6 or less...just let them always find the Paladin in this case.

I do have a question though on a philosophical level. In RL the odds are supposed to be tilted in favor of the villians, with that in mind I don't necesarily agree with granting additional abilities to the PC classes. I don't personaly don't like Barbarian Rage = Horror Rage. While they give similiar bonuses they represent different things...and the rage inspired by horror is more restrictive in what you can do. Maybe the Barbarian's Rage bonuses should stack instead with a horror Rage? One of the abilities granted to Druids also bothers me. Knowledge Ravenloft as a class skill? Yes they should know that its a dark and dangerous world...but doesn't everyone else who takes the time to look?

-Eric Gorman
#6

bob_the_efreet

Dec 20, 2003 18:54:17
I like the paladin's disruption. That's a neat change.
#7

crossover-chronicler

Dec 20, 2003 23:24:28
Originally posted by HvF
It looks interesting and well thought out. I like what you've done with the Paladin to represent "Dark Fantasy". By the Darklord check do you mean DC 20 minus the charisma bonus of the Paladin? If you are subtracting striaght cha then it seems likely that the DL will be making DCs or 6 or less...just let them always find the Paladin in this case.

Yes. I meant Charisma bonus. That line has been corrected.
I do have a question though on a philosophical level. In RL the odds are supposed to be tilted in favor of the villians, with that in mind I don't necesarily agree with granting additional abilities to the PC classes.

Still, game balance is a spectre that I cannot completely abandon. Every class I mentioned above, with the exception of the Barbarian, is in some sense restricted or diminished by the Ravenloft setting rules, while other classes are left alone. I felt that as long as I was reinventing the feel of the setting (moving away from "horror," in a sense), I might as well bring these classes back into some sense of their original "balance." IMO, the villains get more than enough favor from the various other considerations the Demiplane gives: removal of alignment-detection, various "evil" spells enhanced, and more magic in general falling into the "evil" category, Dread Companions (which generally inconvenience good characters more than evil), and Powers Checks and Darklord powers. Also, I am confident that I can challenge the players sufficiently by making the villains more terrifying, as opposed to making the heroes less effective.
I don't personaly don't like Barbarian Rage = Horror Rage. While they give similiar bonuses they represent different things...and the rage inspired by horror is more restrictive in what you can do. Maybe the Barbarian's Rage bonuses should stack instead with a horror Rage?

I think I was unclear on that point. Barbarians are generally rage-filled. Thus, a natural response for a Barbarian to any threat to life, limb, or sanity is to fly into a rage. Therefore, rather than randomly rolling for the result of a failed Fear or Horror save, a Barbarian may choose to suffer the "rage" effect of a failed Horror save, with the assumption that his "fight or flight" response tends to favor "fight" even in the face of all reason.
One of the abilities granted to Druids also bothers me. Knowledge Ravenloft as a class skill? Yes they should know that its a dark and dangerous world...but doesn't everyone else who takes the time to look?

Knowledge(Ravenloft) represents a metaphysical knowledge of "the Land." Given that the land is the source of a Druid's power, it made sense to me that Druids would have this skill. To clarify, I am referring to Knowledge (planar [Ravenloft]) as described on p.46 of the Ravenloft setting book, which deals with the nature of the demiplane rather than knowledge of its geography or inhabitants (which are separate Knowledge skills)
Originally posted by Brandi
I like these. Any special quirks for the Ranger or Rogue?

Other than using the Complete Warrior Ranger variant, I have considered none at present. Because Rangers and Rogues are essentially unaltered, I felt no need to apply any additional modifications. Further, a Rogue's abilities are pure skill, and probably shouldn't be affected by the Demiplane.

EDIT: Rangers: Woodland Stride: This ability is limited as the Druid ability of the same name. However, this is more of a clarification (woodland stride has no effect against magically animated plants) than an actual rule.

...

Eventually, I'll post my psionics variant, but that's undergoing major overhaul as I try to "patch" psionics for 3.5 using what I know of the spellcasting revisions until the Expanded Psionics Handbook comes out.
#8

crossover-chronicler

Dec 21, 2003 2:43:21
This is the psionic variant I'm toying with, though I'm less likely to use it than the above alterations.

[b]Psionics:[/b] Psychic powers are about as suited to Ravenloft as magic. While not quite as flavorful due to its lack of "dark" elements, it is more suited to heroes for that very reason. The setting accomodates some clairsentient, telepathic, and even occasional psychokinetic powers easily; as for the rest, biocurrent is no less innately suited than is fireball.

Psionic modifications owe a lot to If Thoughts Could Kill.

Updating to 3.5: Any power with a name identical to a 3e spell now functions identically to the 3.5e spell description. Other power are now identical to 3.5e spells as well (burning ray becomes scorching ray, and detonation duplicates implosion) while with others I tried to follow the 3.5 example when dealing with similar spells (animal affinity compared to bull's strength et al).

Psicrystals grant skill bonuses more in line with familiars (+3 to a skill instead of +2, occasionally +2 to two skills, or else +2 to a save).

Telepaths get "Wild Empathy" to replace the Animal Empathy skill; to balance the other psions, "Autohypnosis" is now a similar class ability for Savants, Egoists, and Psychic Warriors. Nomads, Seersm and Shapers instead get a good Reflex save, though I am toying with the idea of instead giving them Evasion or Mettle (mettle being a class ability introduced first in Defenders of the Faith and later in Complete Warrior that is like Evasion, but for the other saves).

All aspects of all powers are based on the manifester's primary ability score; psychic warriors must choose an ability score at first level.

Setting Notes: Psionic abilities are generally intuitively discovered rather than taught. Most commoners and even many adventurers make no distinction between a psion and a sorcerer. Psionics and magic are effectively the same, and interact fully. Psionic powers are limited and augmented in the same fashion as magic.

Psicrystals: Psicrystals may gain the "dread companion" and/or "dread golem" templates; I'm still toying with the possibilities. Psicrystals' persona fragments may be renamed to reflect darker impulses.

Disciplines: The Discipline of Metacreativity does not exist; many of its powers are divided among the other Disciplines. Instead, the Intelligence-based Discipline is Channeling, an esotric discipline devoted to channeling otherworldy energies, most notably those of life and death (positive and negative energy), the psionic equivalent of necromancy. For purposes of balance and concept, other powers have been shuffled to and from their original lists as well.
Psions who specialize in Channeling are called Mediums.

Non-native psions may igore these changes.

Any power below with two listed Disciplines can count as a power for either.
Powers and their Disciplines: 0-level: Bolt (Psychoportation), Control Shadow (Channeling), Finger of Fire(Psychokinesis), Trinket (Channeling or Psychoportation),
1st-Level: Astral Construct I (Channeling), [i]Control Object (Channeling), Firefall (Psychokinesis), Grease (removed), Lesser metaphysical weapon (Channeling), Minor Creation (Psychoportation), Psycholuminescence (Psychometabolism: "bioliminescence"),
2nd-Level: Astral Construct II (Channeling*), Burning Ray (Psychokineis) Ectoplasmic Coccoon (Channeling), Ecto puppet (Channeling), Sudden Minor Creation (Psychoportation),
3rd-Level Powers: Astral Construct III (Channeling*), Claws of the Vampire (Channeling or Psychometabolic), Create Food and Water (Psychometabolism), Ectoplasmic Form (Channeling or Psychometabolism), Metaphysical Weapon (Channeling), Whitefire (Psychokinesis)
4th-Level: Astral Construct IV (Channeling), Dismiss Ectoplasm (Channeling), Fabricate (Removed), Quintessence (Psychoportation), Wall of Ectoplasm (Channeling)
5th-Level: Astral Construct V (Channeling), Ectoplasmic Armor (Channeling), Ectoplasmic Shambler (Channeling), Incarnate (Channeling or Telepathy), Major Creation (Psychoportation),
6th-Level Powers: Astral Construct VI (Channeling), Flaming Shroud (Psychokinesis), Improved Fabricate (remove),
7th-Level Powers: Astral Construct VII (Channeling), Contingency (Clairsentience), Mass Coccoon(Channeling),
8th-Level Powers: Astral Construct VIII (Channeling), Mind Store (Channeling), True Creation (remove),
9th-Level Powers:Astral Construct IX (Channeling), Astral Projection (remove), Genesis/Antigenesis (Channeling or Psychoportation)

Channeling (and the metacreative powers of non-native psions) call upon an Ethereal variant of ectoplasm (sometimes called "etherplasm"). In most cases, this substance functions like ectoplasm, save that it is generally unrefined and as "disobedient" as inert matter can be. This matter is related to "ethereal resonances."

Psychoportive powers that create objects now summon them as per call weaponry.


With the exception of burning shroud, pyrokinetic powers now attributed to psychokinesis are no longer dependent upon ectoplasm.
New powers:
Animate Dead: Channeling 4, Display: Me, Ol; Power Points: 7, hp cost (1hp/HD of undead). This is otherwise identical to the spell.
Create Greater Undead: Channeling 8, Display: Me, Au, Ol; Power Points: 15, hp cost (2 hp/HD of undead). otherwise identical to the spell.
Create Undead: Channeling 6, Display: Me, Au, Ol; Power Points: 11, hp cost (2 hp/HD of undead). Identical to spell.
Dark Pulse: Channeling 2, Display: Au, Me, Vi; Power Points: 3, hp cost (1d4).
This power allows the manifester to channel negative energy, rebuking undead as if evil cleric, though without the need for an unholy symbol. It can be utilized in all of the same fashions, including commanding undead, dispelling turning, bolstering udead, and so on (This only counts as a prerequisite for a feat or prestige class by DM approval). Unlike a cleric, a Medium does not have innate access to positive energy as a result of his divine affiliations; instead he fuels the power with his own life-force, losing 1d4 hit points every time he manifests the power. Unead manifesters can draw the negative energy from their own beings; while this is very different in a metaphysical sense, it results in a similar loss of vitality.
This power calls for a Dark Powers check.
Speak With Dead: Channeling 3, Display: Me, Au, Vi; Power Points: 5. Identical to spell.

The following powers require powers checks: claws of the vampire, ectoplasmic shambler, fatal attaraction, mind seed, mind store, psychic vampire, and any power that duplicates a spell or type of spell that would call for a Dark Powers check, or if used in a fashion that would call for a Dark Powers check.

Altered Powers:
Astral Constructs are often called "Poltergeists"; apply the "Animator" template to any Astral Construct created with the Channeling discipline; such a creation requires a Dark Powers check.
aura sight: Aura sight can still perceive alignment/auras of Outsiders and Paladins, and can perceive the moral status of willing Virtuous characters. Any attempt to read a darklord's aura automatically results in the "overwhelming" aura (alignment still not revealed) unless the manifester's level exceeds the darklord's HD by at least 5. Further, this power can now also perceive lawful and chaotic auras at the manifester's discretion.
animal affinity, bite of the tiger, bite of the wolf, claws of the bear, and talons: Those who witness the use of these powers may be required to make a fear or Horror check, depending on the circumstances. A character manifesting these powers may be mistaken for a lycanthrope or other monster by those unfamiliar with psionics.
claws of the vampire: the claws deal 2d4+1 base damage instead of 1d8.
Create Food and Water (Psychometabolic ersion) encourages the growth of edible fungus, out-of-season berries, and other edibles within an area. Though such food may not be tasty, the power can manifest nourishing matter in any environment. "Water" created can be some form of juice or can be specified as pure water.
conceal thoughts: This power cannot trump darklords' abilities.
dream travel: This power transports the manifester through the Nightmare Lands. This power cannot be used to escape a closed Domain or from the Demiplane itself.
ectoplasmic shambler: This power always functions as if its manifester were two levels higher.
empathic transfer: this power can transfer the effects of failed Madness checks. Use of this power opens the manifester up to the possibility of lycanthropic infection (10% chance) or possibly other maladies.
fatal attraction: This power also requires that the victim make a madness check at the power's save DC.
fission: Witnessing this power may call for a horror check.
(anti)genesis: Use of this power creates a tiny, desolate Domain, of which the manifester is lord. Use of this power is an Act of Ultimate Darkness.
hypercognition: This is pure deduction, not prognostication, and therefore is not subject to the demiplane's bans on divinations. However, insight can be frightening: Roll d%: on 01-05%, the manifester must make a Madness save (DC=3d12); on 06-15%, the manifester must make a Horror save (DC=3d10); on 16=30%, the manifester must make a fear save (DC=3d8). If the manifester must make any of these saves, she has also learned some salient fact about teh Domain in which she resides.
inkling: This power cannot make moral judgments, and can therefore not warn the manifester of the possibility of a Powers Check when undertaking a course of action.
mind seed: This power also requires that the victim make a madness check at the power's save DC.
mind store: if this power is disrupted(normally destroying the stored mind), the manifester still persists as a ghost. Should the manifester fail the powers check required by this power, he reappears as a psionic lich (use either the standard/Ravenloft version but substituting psionics for magic).
psychic chirurgery: This power can remove the effects of a failed Horror or Madness check.
psychic vampire: this power is now "fortitude half" instead of "fortitude negates."
#9

crossover-chronicler

Dec 21, 2003 22:00:17
Check for the "EDITs above: added a little consideration for the Ranger, and also the Hexblade's Curse.

Thank you fof all the feedback so far :D
#10

crossover-chronicler

May 17, 2004 20:58:14

Book of Exalted Deeds and Book of Vile Darkness:
The Mortal-Hunter prestige class implies more congress between the "material" and Outer Planes than strictly occurs in the Demplane of Dread, and so should generally not be used.
Likewise, the Archfiends have signifuicamtly less influence in a world already oppressed by the Darklords and Dark Powers. At present, the Archfiends are limited by the "unspoken pact" like any other godlike entity. As a consequence, "Thrall of..." and "Disciple of..." prestige classes, as well as Diabolist, should be rare at best.

Most of the optional mechanics in the Book of Vile Darkness - torture, execution, sacrifice, new poisons and diseases - will be in use. However, most will require Dark Powers checks. Depending on the circumstances, sacrifice may constitute an Act of Ultimate Darkness.

Just as the "Thrall" classes are uncommon, the following Exalted classes are also usually not suited: Beloved of Valarian, Champion of Gwynharwyf, Defender of Sealtiel, Emissary of Barachiel, Fist of Raziel, Initiate of Pistis Sophia, Lion of Talisid, Prophet of Erathaol, Sentinel of Bharrai, Slayer of Domiel, Stalker of Kharash, Troubador of Stars, and Vassal of Bahamut; These classes are available to members of small local cults at best, and the Celestial Paragons' very existence are unknown to most in the Demiplane.
Further, Vassal of Bahamut is generally useless in a world with almost no dragpons.
Risen Martyr demands divine intervention, and so should appear only sparingly.
Because Exalted Arcanist implies Celestial ancestry, the character's heritage and backstory should be establishe before such a character is approved.

The barrier for entry into "Exalted" status is slightly lower, as Ravenloft characters are more fallible.

A Celestial Familiar does not gain the Dread Companion Template. Outsider familiars project reality wrikles as normal. However, calling such a familiar now requires the character to cast planar ally (or pay to have it cast) and bargain with the celestial being prior to gaining the benefits.

A Celestial Mount does not gain teh Dread Companion Template.

Gift of Faith grants a bonus to Fear, Horror and Madness checks.

Favored of the Companions, Knight of Stars, and Servanto of the Heavens are as restricted as the classes associated with the Celestial Paragons are; you have to know they exist before you can swear to serve them.

Righteous Wrath affects the Horror effect: Rage.

Spells will be examined on a case-by-case basis, but most fall under the standard rules for magic in Ravenloft.

3.5-updated Psionics house rules coming soon
#11

zombiegleemax

Jun 01, 2004 12:58:21
I'll probably use that distortion aura effect too, as it gives Paladins that little something extra that I think they need. Besides, it's going to freak my players out if they notice it. Since this is Ravenloft, they'll assume the worst.

It also represents the minor reality wrinkle the Paladin actually is.
#12

anansi

May 15, 2007 20:10:00
Sounds pretty nifty, though I have a couple of concerns:

Druids getting Knowledge(Ravenloft) as a class skill: Are you sure this is a good idea? It gives druids a real edge over other characters. Also, would a druid PC have to back up ranks in this skill with in-game research, like other characters?

Celestial familiars gaining reality wrinkles: Again, is this really a good idea? If the wrinkle is large enough, the familiar's master (and possibly his companions) can cross domain borders or mess with a darklord's granted powers. Also, I know this is a houserule thread but normally outsiders that bind themselves to a mortal lose their wrinkles. There's a pretty good reason for that.
#13

abraham

Jun 05, 2007 16:43:42
what about warmages,warlocks,ninjas & spellthieves?
#14

crossover-chronicler

Nov 17, 2007 0:15:00
what about warmages,warlocks,ninjas & spellthieves?

Sorry for the lack of replies, all. I fell off the boards for a while and lost many of my working notes for this project.

abraham - I began working on this before I had access to complete arcane, complete adventurer, and complete divine. Without an in-depth review (which I may be doing later, if I ever get a group willing to play through Ravenloft again), I think I can say the following:
In general, Wu Jen and Warmage will probably follow the same general rules as Wizards and Sorcerers, respectively.
Warlocks will require more attention, but in some respects their powers are well-suited to the tone of Ravenloft so I am inclined to leave then alone, for the most part. Invocations that replicate spell effects are subject to the same alterations.

The same can be said of ninjas and spellthieves - most of their modifications would similar to those of rogues and spellcasters. Keep in mind, though, that stabbing someone to steal her magic could easily be considered "more evil" act than forms of theft that don't involve stabbing, so mugging mages for magic might call for a Powers Check. On the other hand, stabbing an enemy spellcaster in battle to steal her spells is about as immoral as disarming an enemy fighter.

I suspect that Favored Souls, Shugengas and Spirit Shamans would need some more serious work.
Also, I still need to update for 3.5 psionics, meaning I'd need to include Psion, Wilder, Psychic Warrior, and Soulknife (and possibly Ardent, Divine Mind, and Lurk) if and when I manage to update again.

QUOTE=Anansi;12408925]Sounds pretty nifty, though I have a couple of concerns:

Druids getting Knowledge(Ravenloft) as a class skill: Are you sure this is a good idea? It gives druids a real edge over other characters. Also, would a druid PC have to back up ranks in this skill with in-game research, like other characters?
I'm not sure what you're asking. It's a Knowledge skill. It has the same values and limitations as any Knowledge skill. And though it is obviously more relevant to the setting than some other skills might be, I do not see it as any more or less powerful than any other Knowledge skill, and is subject to the exact same restrictions. While Knowledge(Ravenloft) is rare, Druid circles in Ravenloft tend to be secretive and hidden cults as well, and a logical source for knowledge of the Land. The trick is that while the demiplane must seem mysterious, some knowledge of its secrets must fall in to the PCs' hands or the whole setting just seems arbitrary.
Celestial familiars gaining reality wrinkles: Again, is this really a good idea? If the wrinkle is large enough, the familiar's master (and possibly his companions) can cross domain borders or mess with a darklord's granted powers. Also, I know this is a houserule thread but normally outsiders that bind themselves to a mortal lose their wrinkles. There's a pretty good reason for that.

I don't recall this rule. Could you point me to its source? Keep in mind that I'm working with a handful of 3.0 setting books ere, and never invested heavily in the supplements or the updates.

As for whether it's a good idea, I'm not sure I can say. I've only rarely used sealed borders as a plot point, and I'd think that a darklord who encountered such a familiar would have little trouble eliminating the little pest quite soon. On the other hand, it does also make the PC detectable, which is a liability.
#15

zdb

Nov 19, 2007 7:54:21
Question Hereeee!!!!

The idea of the paladin`s disrruption is awesome, but how would it work for a Paladin of Tyranny? or a Paladin of slaughter? (From the U. Arcana)
#16

kwdblade

Nov 20, 2007 15:39:30
I expect the grass wouldn't simply move aside, it would just die in their presence, or perhaps loss its color. Maybe animals become increasingly uncomfortable around them.

I always thought the idea of the Paladin of Slaughter was pretty silly. I mean, you pretty much have to kill any person you meet, burn down every village you stay at, and generally just cause rampage everywhere you go. Even in Ravenloft, someone like that wouldn't last long. Either a darklord would put them down, or a mob would.
#17

zdb

Nov 21, 2007 7:24:18
Well yes, the PoS is quite lame but the PoT is great, and it think it would work great in Ravenloft.
But besides this "cosmetic" effects, what are the numeric effects?
Like:
The paladin's aura of good repels the being of the demiplane, leading to interesting effects

or
A paladin gains an additional +1 to Fortitude and Reflex saves, as the disrupting aura rejects and repels harmful substances.
A darklord can locate a paladin within his Domain with sucessful Wisdom check (DC of 20 minus the paladin's Charisma bonus), retried automatically every 24 hours.

and what about?
smite evil: Because the demiplane itself is suffused with darkness, the paladin's smite ability is even more dramatic. When activated, it genetrally causes the paladin's weapon to flash and crackle, often leaving the smell of ozone. This power can be used in an attempt to damage some "evil" structures or objects.

He has Smite good, so?
#18

beepaladin

Nov 23, 2007 0:24:13
I frankly love the what you've done with paladin. The description of smite evil is so evocative, as is the disruption.

I've been out of DnD for about 2 years, so maybe I'm wrong on the variant paladins (this tyranny/slaughter rot), but I think it makes perfect sense, given the nature of Ravenloft, that the nature of a paladin might be something innately repulsive to the realm itself.

I don't think an evil aligned paladin would function in the same way, given the aura of displacement and such.

Excellent work.
#19

crossover-chronicler

Dec 15, 2007 6:49:56
Question Hereeee!!!!

The idea of the paladin`s disrruption is awesome, but how would it work for a Paladin of Tyranny? or a Paladin of slaughter? (From the U. Arcana)

Well, my first response would be that I'm not sure Paladins of Slaughter and Tyranny fit well in the setting, but given the way Ravenloft favors "dark" elements and tends to exacerbate evil and subvert good, I can't very well leave it at that.

The rules for paladins in Ravenloft tend to presume paladins are paragons of good, so we'll start there - Paladins of Freedom follow the same rules as Paladins of Honor.

Evil paladins are still paladins - devoted vessels of the will of their deity and alignment, in some respects held to even higher standards than priests. Therefore, many of their abilities will fall out much the same.

divine grace: The paladin's aura of "divine grace" functions as an "outcast rating" when dealing with good characters, rather than influencing reactions alone.
debilitating aura: Coming in contact with the aura of a Paladin of Slaughter for the first time may be cause for a Fear save. Failed horror or madness saves made it regard to the paladin are more likely to result in phobias, anxiety, or hypochondria. Note that because it "otherwise functions as aura of courage" that it still renders the paladin immune to fear, even if the aura has a different effect.
aura of despair: A paladin of tyranny's aura applies to Fear, Horror, and Madness saves as well. Because it is subtler, it does not normally impose a Fear check. Failed horror or madness saves within the aura are more likely to result in depression or anxiety disorders. Note that because it "otherwise functions as aura of courage" that it still renders the paladin immune to fear, even if the aura has a different effect.
disruption: Though evil, a paladin's aura is still in some respects a weak "reality wrinkle." However like that of a fiend, an evil paladin's aura tends to absorb the nature of the land rather than repel it. The "grass dying" example mentioned above is a good idea, but most examples tend to be less extreme (I generally think it shouldn't be possible to track an evil paladin by following the brown footprints, nor for most evil paladins to be able to blight crops with their mere presence).
Evil paladins tend to blend in with crowds, almost always having a sense of belonging exactly where they are. They are accompanied by strange "auras" similar to their holy counterparts, but of a different character. They cast long, deep shadows and their very existence tends to darken a room. In an evil paladin's presence, one might find the air stuffy as if lacking of oxygen. In extreme cases (when the DM feels it appropriate), milk might spoil or beer might go flat in an evil paladin's presence. Witnesses may make a spot check (DC 25 minus the paladin's Charisma bonus, if positive) to recognize an evil paladin. This can also serve as a circumstance bonus to Bluff, Intimidate, or other social checks.
An evil paladin gains an additional +1 to Hide, Move SIlently, and Disguise checks, as the disrupting aura attracts shadows, muffles sound, and blends the paladin with the background.
A darklord can locate a paladin within his Domain with sucessful Wisdom check (see above) but sense the movements of a kindred spirit (or rival evil), not a champion of virtue.
detect good: Paladins lose this ability. Instead, the paladin develops a "domain sense." (see above).
smite good: This power is significantly less dramatic than smite evil, as it does not burn through the evil of the demiplane as it is used. However, most uses of this power are grounds for a Dark Powers check.
While darkness and silence do gather around the smiting weapon as it concentrates the evil of the demiplane, it's generally not as visible or audible as the crackle and flash of smite evil, leaving only a blur of movement instead of a loud noise or trail of light. Still, an astute character would notice it, and some dark paladins are fond of showing off.
#20

kwdblade

Dec 16, 2007 13:17:50
Awesome, sound ideas. I like it. I assume most of these can be applied to blackguards as well?
#21

crossover-chronicler

Dec 16, 2007 17:20:47
I don't see why not.
#22

ravenloftlover347

Dec 16, 2007 17:34:21
The RLDMG had rules for adding more classes and adding prestige classes in "Expanding the Mists" (part of Chapter 2) starting on page 104. It also includes all the prestige classes in the DMG.
#23

abraham

Dec 19, 2007 19:09:31
What about the prestige classes in complete arcane or complete mage?