Also, I could never find any discussion of the monk class and why it wasn't included in DS3.5. I guess pairing this class with the Thri-kreen was a bad idea?
If Monk is definitely out, any thoughts on how to do Martial Arts on AThas? There still is precedent fo their existence, right?
On prestige classes, it's here, somewhere. Might even be on the old board, depending on how long ago you saw it posted.
Originally posted by 16th Champion
There used to be a thread on prestige classes, with big lists of what classes were appropriate for a DS campaign. I searched, and can't find them anymore. Any idea where they went?
Also, I could never find any discussion of the monk class and why it wasn't included in DS3.5. I guess pairing this class with the Thri-kreen was a bad idea?
If Monk is definitely out, any thoughts on how to do Martial Arts on AThas? There still is precedent fo their existence, right?
I think it just wasn't included for simplicity's sake. The new PsiHB is supposed to have 2 new main classes, one of which might be a Psionic Monk-like class, which IMO would fit far better in Athas than the standard PHB version. In the PHB, the monks seem to have more of a tie with magic, and Athasian magic is rather restrictive (Arcane magic is for Wizards drawing life energy for spells, Clerics gain their magic through the Elements, Druids from the Spirits of the Land, and Rangers from lesser spirits; Templars recieve their magic through the wishes of their Sorcerer-Monarch), so a magically-tied monk wouldn't fit as well with how I see magic working on Athas. Psionics, however, are rather rampant and everyone (supposedly) can access psionic powers, so a Psionic Monk would tend to work better.
By that I mean, an ability could magical in an official document, but easily explained as psioninc with little change.
An example is the Arcane Trickster in Tome and Blood. On Athas, it could be the Psionic Trickster. The only necessary changes are to the requirements (psicraft instead of spellcraft, etc.) and viewing the spell-like abilities as psionic instead of magic. This last part is only in our heads, right?
If you accept this, then monk is no problem, right?
About that prestige class thread, no sign of it. I saw it here a few weels ago.
Power Points - would a psionic monk acrue power points, and at what rate? Would using abilities drain these points, rather than uses per day limitations (making them a little more flexable than your standard monk)? That would make a more psionically-capable monk interesting. Imagine if Wholeness of Body, Abundant Step or Empty Body used power points from the Psionic Monk, and then (s)he would be able to decide how to spend these each day.
Psionic Combat - would a Psionic Monk have combat modes available? Seems like (s)he would. How would the Psi Monk get these, how frequently, etc. This would of course be important when tied with power points.
Psionic Feats - would a Psionic Monk have the ability to gain Feats with the [Psionic] tag to them?
Perfect Self - rather than spells and magical effects, it might be more fitting to say that the ability here would work for powers and psionic effects, but that's pretty easy to handle.
---
As you see, there's actually several things to take into account for a Psionic Monk. I'd say they don't have many power points, far fewer than a Psychic Warrior or (gasp) a Psion. But such gameplay mechanics would definitely add to the idea of a Psionic Monk and separate it from your standard cut-and-dry PHB one.
I don't want to alter any mechanics. I had in mind allowing the regular monk class. Why can the Monk do, say, leap of the clouds? In D&D, its a magical talent he develops. Now, in DS we could say, its a sort of psionic talent he develops.
In this case, no need to have pp, combat modes, or psi-feats. The Monk hasn't learned to use the Way like others. His intense inner focus inadvertently allows him to draw on powers similar to a psions. (just like D&D monk draws on powers similar to mage) This is just a story device.
BUT
The idea of a real Psi-Monk like you were decribing is good. If not a core class, maybe Psi-Warrior/Monk prestige class?
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112652
and maybe this...
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54341
Anyway, what 16th said is basically true: there's nothing in the PHB which says that the monk abilities are "magic." They're just special. Special can be explained by the Way.
So, in my opinion, you can have the Nibenese monks use the monk class from the PHB with no changes whatsoever. The only thing is that they MUST be from Nibenay, the only place that's said to have them.
The idea of a real Psi-Monk like you were decribing is good. If not a core class, maybe Psi-Warrior/Monk prestige class?
If I could access his site right now to provide a direct link, Nytcrawler has a decent psionic monk write-up. Renamed the Mystic, its mechanically sound and has a good DS flavor background. Best I can do: Crimson Sun
P.S. Nyt: Fix your site
Originally posted by 16th Champion
BUT
The idea of a real Psi-Monk like you were decribing is good. If not a core class, maybe Psi-Warrior/Monk prestige class?
I might toy with the idea some more, but first I've got a few other things on my plate. With any luck, shortly here I'll have a website up and running of my own where I can toss around ideas available to the public.
I've got the server up (mostly), and am currently in the process of helping my rommate reinstall his computer (he got a new hard drive, and we just decided that with everything that was going to be done with his computer, to start from scratch once again on it.... a rather lengthy process in and of itself).
Plus we're (my roommate & myself) in.... heated negotiatians (sp?) with our DSL provider which apparently doesn't understand the concept of "exactly the same service with the same price" that they had told us (and sent in writing) when our previous DSL provider went belly-up and they took over. Once we can get this rather simple concept through their heads, then I'll be able to get another step out of the way (re-acquire a static IP).
No mechanical changes are necesssary ... and I'd discourage them, really.
Basically, think of them as aestetics. They torture themselves under the heat of the sun, beat themselves up and train all the time ... Unlike Psions and Psychic warriors, who learn to channel their inner strength into psionic powers, monks learn to focus their iner strength to enhance their own bodies.
The mental gymnastics to make the switch are actually pretty minimal.
The objection to including the monk class was kind of one of niches ... Monks and psycic warriors sort of compete for the same niche ... a lot of monkish abilities are mimiced in psionic feats. We wanted to emphasis the psionic, and so the monk (remained) dropped ...
But that's not to say that they don't work.
Originally posted by flip
The objection to including the monk class was kind of one of niches ... Monks and psycic warriors sort of compete for the same niche ... a lot of monkish abilities are mimiced in psionic feats. We wanted to emphasis the psionic, and so the monk (remained) dropped ... [/b]
I like this line of thinking (and suspected it was something like this).
Canon has still got martial arts, though. Has Athas.org got any (even embrionic) ideas on how to fit them into the game?
If not, I'll say again (and someone else said this too), the Starwars books have some good ideas for martial arts without monks. Add a couple feast and styles ala Oriental Adventures, and you'd be done.
You call styles something like "Crouching Braxat."
Originally posted by 16th Champion
There used to be a thread on prestige classes, with big lists of what classes were appropriate for a DS campaign. I searched, and can't find them anymore. Any idea where they went?
There are several on the old boards, check the old boards link and search from there.
Also, I could never find any discussion of the monk class and why it wasn't included in DS3.5. I guess pairing this class with the Thri-kreen was a bad idea?
There are plenty of arguments on the old boards as well.
I've always thought monk should be added as is from the PHB to go into Athas. Most of the abilities are SU and EX so there shouldn't be too much difficult with just saying that is what the monk does and can do so via internal strength, and not saying they are magic or psionic tied in anyway. Kinda like what Flip is saying.
However, despite how much I and others have tried, and no matter how well we argued and how right we were, monks, as far as I know, won't be added any time soon. It's unfortunate, but you can't win them all.
So basically you could do it one of two ways, allow monks in and just say all their SU abilities come from internal strength and has nothing to do with outside influences other than training, or you could use my version of the psimonk that may or may not be in the new PsiHb called the Mystic. Brax and I created this version once I took up the job of creating a monk that would fit Athas more and one Brax could agree with, he liked the flavor behind it so much that he helped me with the mechanics of it.
Now there is probably some issue with the mechanics of it, and it's not 3.5 compatible, so take it as is and fix it up if you want and let me know what issues you run into because I would love to use it as another monk class or PrC from Nibenay which represents the monk order there.
Once I start cranking out my new website I'll take a look at it and get it 3.5 compatible at least, but will probably wait till I at least get the 3.5 PsiHb.
Enjoy.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
If I could access his site right now to provide a direct link, Nytcrawler has a decent psionic monk write-up. Renamed the Mystic, its mechanically sound and has a good DS flavor background. Best I can do: Crimson Sun
P.S. Nyt: Fix your site
Fixed.
Thanks, even though I didn't even see this thread till after I fixed the site, hehe.
Fixed.
Cool. Needed the fix . . . .
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Cool. Needed the fix . . . .
LOL, now if I can just get my lazy ass to update it.