Now, i need help to find the 10 strategists, the time frame is about 5 to 15 years after the war of the lance.
So i have :
Huma Dragonbane
Vinas Solamnus
...
Kith-kanan?
...
please help!
XIII
Kitiara Uth Matar and Laurana the Golden General were thought to be expert tacticians, as was Ariakan, the founder of the Knights of Takhisis.
Others to include...
Ariakas
Kang
Kitiara
Laurana
Gunthar uth Wistan
Galan Dracos
Hotak de-Droka & Nephera (they're a set ;) )
Tanis? (not so much in a military unit, but with a small group)
Hope that helps.
Originally posted by Tasslehoff the Great
The kingpriest may not have been a strategist...but he could sure get people to obey his commands....gods excluded of course;)
Which brings up one of the greatest strategists of all time...
Takhisis.
Oh, sure, she lost many wars and never did conquer Ansalon outright throughout the millenia, but I have to say that any god who can pull the wool over everyones' eyes and steal the world of Krynn deserves a spot in the Strategist Hall of Fame.
What about Kronin (?) Thistleknot, the kender hero of the War of the Lance?
Dragonhelm: My personal favorite is Ariakan.
Others to include...
Ariakas
Kang
Kitiara
Laurana
Gunthar uth Wistan
Galan Dracos
Hotak de-Droka & Nephera (they're a set )
Tanis? (not so much in a military unit, but with a small group)
Hope that helps.
*EDIT*
Of those, only Galan Dracos is dead by the end of the war of the lance and he didnt leaved a body since he sent himself to oblivion to deny the Dragonqueen to torture him... or maybe Hotak de-Droka & Nehpera, which i dont know anything about... aint they Minotaur from the DLCS? which mean they arent dead yet =(
*EDIT*
The kingpriest may not have been a strategist...but he could sure get people to obey his commands....gods excluded of course
That is a good idea!
Which brings up one of the greatest strategists of all time...
But since she is a god, her "remains" cant be used...
*sigh*
How about Crynus? from the Legend of Huma?
XIII
So back to your current list:
Huma
Kingpriest
Vinas Solamnus
Ariakas
Kitiara (5-15 years after the War? Yup, she's dead)
Other Highlords (Their strategy is debatable, but the big thing holding them back in the war was the dragon, imo - Salah-Khan, Lucien, Feal-Thas, Verminaard are all options here.)
I don't know Tolandruth, or much of anybody in Huma's time, so I honestly couldn't tell you about them. I'm not even sure that Huma is really a great tactician so much as a hero. So I'm poor at helping there.
Come to think of it, most of my DL knowledge comes into being at the WotL and goes from there... Sorry.
You also have Cathan Twice-Born from the Kingpriest trilogy. He was the first of the Kingpriest's knights. (Knights of the Sacred Hammer I think).
Fordus Firesoul - He led a band of desert rebels with plans to invade IStar. The dark queen got involved, trying to stop him!!! He must have some power. (The Dark Queen)
Colin Stonetooth - Leader of the Last clan of Calnar darves (hylar before hylar) last thane of Thorin. (Yes, dwarf) (Dwarven Trilogies)
Giarna - The ergothian who fought against Kith-Kanen in the kinslayer wars (he even extended his lifespan through magic) (Kinslayer Wars)
Nianki - From Sister of the Sword. She organized the few remaining plainspeople and banded them together. (Sister of teh Sword)
Moreen - From the icewall trilogy. She banded together teh tribes of human on the icereach, took back a citadel from the thanois, and defeated numerous attacks by the Icereach ogres.
Tol - From A Warrior's Journey. Went from peasant to great general (and eventually king of Ergoth?).
Thats what 8 people.
Tol(andruth) - A warrior's Journey. (Ergoth)
Moreen - Icewall Trilogy. (Icereach)
Nianki - Barbarians Trilogy. (Plains of Abasinia)
Giarna - Kinslayer Wars (Ergoth)
Colin Stonetooth - Covenant of the Forge (Thorbardin, Thorin?)
Fordus Firesoul - The Dark queen (Istar?)
Cathan - Kingpriest Trilogy (Istar?)
Pirvan - Knights of the Crown, Sword, Rose and Wayward knights (Solamnia)
All without getting into the really big names. :D :D
Thats exactly what i was looking for!
Tol(andruth) - A warrior's Journey. (Ergoth)
This one i dont remember but thats look nice.
Moreen - Icewall Trilogy. (Icereach)
I do remember her!
Nianki - Barbarians Trilogy. (Plains of Abasinia)
So true! and her brother too! ill take only her tho!
Giarna - Kinslayer Wars (Ergoth)
I do remember him, 1st general is Ergoth during Kinslayer war!
Colin Stonetooth - Covenant of the Forge (Thorbardin, Thorin?)
This one is a nice chief too, remember reading it a few months ago
Fordus Firesoul - The Dark queen (Istar?)
No clue about this one.
Cathan - Kingpriest Trilogy (Istar?)
One nice knight to use!
Pirvan - Knights of the Crown, Sword, Rose and Wayward knights
(Solamnia)
Never heard of, might buy the book!
Gee! this make for a power leader!
Thanks!
XIII
As far as Nianki's brother yeah he was a great leader but not much of a stategist IMO. He was more along the lines of a diplomat who tries to avoid war.
Fordus Fireesoul - Is mentioned in "The Dark Queen" from the Villains series. He is kinda of hard to remember because I read that book sometime in the far past (possibly years).
Tol(andruth) - From "A Warrior's Journey" is mentioned (primary character) in the new Ergothian series.
Spoilers
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He goes from being a peasant, to a squire, to the leader of infantry (where he develops new tactics for fighting cavalry), to the leader of cavalry (where he develops new techniques for fighting infantry), to being one of the big generals for the Ergothian king. He has two plains woman for wifes and is having an affair with the king's wife. A true man's man. :D :D :D
How is this strategist being made? Is it going to be some sort of zombie or skeleton made from the remains, or are the remains just a part of the reanimating spell? Are the different parts of the different generals going to have to fight over what to do inside the mind of the being they become, or work as a harmonious group? An especially good point if you're going to include some good and some evil generals...
Actually, i have another post on the "What's a DM to do" thread about my idea.
To make a long story short, There is a cult of the snake in my game, based on Yuan-Ti. The Yuan-Ti leader is dying and he thought about using his best necromancer and priests ( of which i didnt choose a god yet) to find the remains of the 10 greatests strategists of all time and bring them back to the cult. The cultists will use some spells (not decided which yet) to bring all that is useful into one being.
Take our 10 best, add a yuan-ti leader remain, mix, cook for 30 minutes at 350 F and serve hot!
No joke, they will take a pureblood who was cared for by the cultist leader, and "taint" him with the mix of the remains. This way, the pureblood will become their new leader and will have all the memories of the best leaders before him.
Of course, at first he might be confused, but he will have ease to overcome it, and then will find his memory to be so acurate that we will think about reinserting the Yuan-ti as a prime race on Ansalon.
darthsylver : i'll sure read the new ergothian serie.
Tell me want you think about it.
BTW, the whole thing was started a few weeks ago, and last week, i read a GI JOE comics which had Serpentor as a character, so thats where the idea of the leader came from.
Think i said it all, if more needed, ask away. you can also see my other post in the DM board, "What's a DM to do" under "The making of a villain : Serpentor"
XIII
I am currently druging through the last of the "Starlight and Shadows," "Windwalker" by Elaine Cunningham. The first two in the series were great and I really enjoyed them. This one however just drags and drags.
C-O-O-B-R-A-A-A-A-A!!!
Edit: Yes Colin Stonetooth Deserves a spot as well, being the father of Thorbardin itself. Willen Ironmaul, Colin's captain of the Guards and thane of the Hylar after Colin dies is also very good. He led the dwarves to victory in the Wizards War (Hammer and Axe).
I still think Derkin was better than them though.
I was just pointing out characters who were great but since they are not the main-line characters, are rarely remembered.
What you must remember is that I read the books almost as soon as they come out and when referencing books, unless I am looking for something specific, I merely glance at the back cover to refresh my memory.
But yes, there are many great characters who would fill the specific roll without resorting to the "famous" names.
Yarus - The last High Clerist, he was the best Khas player in the world or something
Kurnos - was an evil bishop in the time just before the cataclysm, he was kept a prisoner in the Tower of the High Clerist, and played khas with yarus constantly...
The Commander of the Armies of Fistandantilus?
Kaz the Minotaur?
Why not kidnap Gunthar?
Kitiara?
I mentioned the people still alive because it will be difficult to tie in the locations of all these tombs in your campaign.
Unless you mean Sir Michael. But I don't think he fits the 'great strategist' category.
Just wondering, how do you plan to snare the abilities of these great leaders? This is going to be a very grand campaign, please let us know how it turns out.
XIII has a wizard who has an army but the wizard is not a strategist. In short he needs a general who knows about conducting a prolonged military campaign, which is where the strategist comes in.
Back to the beginning. XIII, are the heroes going to try to stop this harnessing of strategy? Or is this process already completed? Where do the heroes start from? Are they behind the eight ball already or do they have the chance to prevent this catastophe from happening? These questions that must be considered before we continue batting around the philosophical concept of "strategy".
Back to the beginning. XIII, are the heroes going to try to stop this harnessing of strategy? Or is this process already completed? Where do the heroes start from? Are they behind the eight ball already or do they have the chance to prevent this catastophe from happening? These questions that must be considered before we continue batting around the philosophical concept of "strategy".
Now as to exactly how the knowledge will be retained I am not sure.
But if you were to take a page, and a great leap, from the real world, humans who have amnesia sometimes are able to do things that they did not realize they could do.
I hate to use a movie to point this out but look at the movis "The Bourne Identity" and "The Long Kiss Goodnight," and you will see.
Now I am not in any way medically knowledge, but from what I have heard and picked up these movies do express what some doctors believe to be possible. The body remembering how to do things even when the minds has no memory of doing them.
Perhaps through magic this same theory will be applied when creating this strategist.
Ahem.
So, someone with amnesia might be able to touch-type (even badly, like I can), because it's been stored in a different way/place in the brain. When drawing on experience, like you would need to do with complex strategy, you wouldn't be able to rely on instinct. In basic combat, yes, your body will react to a swing of the sword or a jab of a spear, and you'll be able to whack them back (although sneak attack and weapon finesse with a club *is* absurd).
It's a known fact (in as much as any facts are) that if you are in the state of mind of when you learnt something, you'll be able to recall better. That's why an exam you revised quite coolly for will be harder if you panic. However, if you panicked whilst revising, when you get to the exam... best advice, is to try and hyperventilate
I say
Ariakan
Kith Kanan
Kitiara
Colin Stonetooth
Derkin Winterseed
Vinas Solamnus
General Giarna
Tolandruth
Balif
Yarus
*banging head on keyboard*
XIII
Why do you want strategists for a wizard? Why not some of the greatest wizards of all time?
Because the wizards i use in the Yuan-ti cult arent leaning toward becoming leader and because their leader is still alive (himself being a fighter/strategist with good knowledge of war and war's history) he is working on creating his sucessor.
Quote from : Cyrus
Just wondering, how do you plan to snare the abilities of these great leaders?
The cult will take the remains together and they will bring all the spirits together merging them together and since spirits retain some of or all their knowledge, the host shall be able to "remember" knowledge from the spirits.
Quote from : Darthsylver
Well strategy is not an "ability" like smite good (...), but knowledge which has been learned and can be pu into practice against an enemy.
True, thats why i thought about binding the spirits together and merging them with the host, that way all theirs knowledge become his, henceforth is great strategic abilities.
Quote from : Darthsylver
XIII has a wizard who has an army but the wizard is not a strategist. In short he needs a general who knows about conducting a prolonged military campaign, which is where the strategist comes in.
Actually, its a cult of Yuan-Ti with some great necromancers & priests. They need a human or a human-like general so that they can enlist mercenaries and barbarians tribes without raising suspicion. Thats why the host is a pureblood Yuan-Ti, he looks human but has strong ties to the yuan-ti cult.
Quote from Cyrus :
Well how is the knowledge going to passed to the "host" body? If stategy is not an ability and therefore nontransferable, XIII's campaign has just Hindenberged. Why not trap the souls in precious gems and force them to advise the wizard in all his military exercises.
Thats where the merged spirits come foward. Knowledge can be taught (sp?) but what if all the spirits are merged together and infused into the host either but transforming all theif knowledge in a potion (like the one used by yuan-ti to create tainted human) or directly sending the spirits into the host body.
And i wont use "soulgems" because anyone could use them, and i dont feel like my players should get a hold on that =)
Quote from : Cyrus
Back to the beginning. XIII, are the heroes going to try to stop this harnessing of strategy? Or is this process already completed? Where do the heroes start from? Are they behind the eight ball already or do they have the chance to prevent this catastophe from happening? These questions that must be considered before we continue batting around the philosophical concept of "strategy".
The heroes are going to be hired as mercenaries by the cult. they will be assigned a pureblood yuan-ti priest to act as supervisor. they will hunt for a tomb, get the remains and bring it back to where they were hired to get their reward. They might even be sent for a 2nd tomb if everything went nice on the first one. Since there will be a few teams of mercenaries hunting for the remains of these strategists, they will surely hear about someone seeing snakes, or their advisor being "scaly". anyway, they will find that something IS wrong about their doing, because the cult wont tell them what they are doing.
After that, they might want to stop this process which might be long underway by that time. Of course the process will take some times and since my players are quick to change subject if they dont find easy clues, they might just pass to some other quests, until the process is completed, and the new yuan-ti leader is ready to wage war on ansalon...
Quote from : Darthsylver
Well from what I gather there is not going to be a host body as the body will be made from the remains of the strategists.
Actually, there is an host body, and its a living one.
I had so much more stuff said in my first post, but i lost it somehow, typed submit, and went to unregistered!
*sigh*
Here is my actual list of strategists :
Moreen : Good - Ambush & Guerilla?
Yarus : Good - Best Khas player
Cathan Twice-Born : Good - 1st knight to King-Priest
Giarna : Good - General of Ergothian Empire during Kinslayer war
Nianki : Good - Barbarian who united her ppl vs elves
Tolandruth : Good - from peasant to general
Vinas Solmanus : Good - creator of KoS
Ariakus : Evil - Dragon army High Lord
Crynus : Evil - General to Dragonqueen during same war as huma
Yuan-Ti leader (after his death) (evil)
So i need one more evil strategist or great warrior to add to my list to be completed. Since the last spirit to be merged will be the cult leader, the whole merged will turn evil, but adding some more villains will add some flavor.
I also still need some information about serpent cult, if anyone find anything in any book from WotC, tell me, ill just buy it to get my cult started!
thanks a lot for your reply, it help me precise my thoughts
XIII
*EDITED : list of strategists i will use so far.*
Pureblood Yuan-ti : +2 ECL
Fighter lv 12 : to give a feel that the spirit gave him their fighter prowess.
Legendary Tactician : lv 5 or more : to represent the knowledge of the spirits (should be more like 10 lv tho)
Dragon rider : lv 1 : I thought about giving him a green dragon cohort so that he could roam the battlefield at ease. And green dragon sound similar to serpent to me. Also, the green dragon would have been captured by the yuan-ti when he was an hatchling so they would have raised it.
How you like it?
Also, is it possible to give more than 20 lv without going into epic stuff? i mean pureblood + 12 lv fighter + 5 Tactician + 1 dragon rider = 20 lv, if i add some legendary tactician lv, he bust 20... how to do that. ( i dont have epic handbook yet)
"This i command!"
Thanks!
XIII
could i please get some help with the last post i did about my cult leader...?
Thanks a lot!
XIII
I do think that he was one of the greatests strategists in the whole game, after all he cheated death.
The old commander of the Mercenary Army from the Brothers' Majere would be a good canidate, as well as the Battle Wizard Hogarth, or whatever his name was, who taught Raistalin how to 'Battle Cast' his wizard spells.
Also, if the essences of all these great strategists are being harnessed, why is the alignment issue a non-issue? I'd've though that a lot of the abilities of these people would rely on having good, well trained troops, who they are generous and respectful towards, and most had a long time to plan stuff - including the training. Mercenaries and barbarian tribes are not the kinds of people you can effectively lead without being a tribal leader (for the tribes) or having an absurd amount of money. Where's this cult going to get it's money from?
The mercenaries would bugger off as soon as anything nasty happened to them anyway.
I still don't see why you need to combine all the greatest strategical minds (essences - whatever) to get a good strategist. If you're playing with wizards, why not just have this pureblood absorb loads of strategic knowledge from the corpses/essences themselves? This would save the alignment issue, because they'd've had the knowledge unwillingly sucked out of them, and they wouldn't be a part of the whole at the end. There'd also be room for this person to absorb an increasing amount of knowledge, and from living people as well.
I'm also unsure about the whole Legendary Tactician thing. Everyone is trying to tack this prestige class onto every strategist in the history of Krynn, which makes sense, because those are the legends. True, you can have living legends, but they have to build up a legend... this guy has no legend, so how can he be legendary? No one's even heard of this snake cult (due to you having made it up, or at least I presume no one will have). A lot of the abilities of the legendary tactician rely on the legend, which is why the abilities are extraordinary. If you just made a cut down version the Tactician, and gave it only the abilties related to fighting and directing troops, maybe it'd make more sense. That solution would also mean that you wouldn't have to worry about epic so much.
Hope some of that was coherent.