Wizard Question - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Wizard Question

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 23, 2003 17:32:52 I'm a DM for a campaign that involves a Wizard who's primary object of worship is NOT one of the 3 moons of magic. He is taking the Divine Mystic (I believe its called that) from the Book of Exalted Deeds and there for worships the gods of Mount Celestia and not the moons. I asked him about this and he gave me a generalized answer of While he WORSHIPS the gods of mount celestia he acknowledges the Moon of his alignment (Good). What I'm asking is would it be unfair if I had this wizard resieve a vision from some celestial saying he must choose one or the other, forsaking the benefits of one to gain those of the other? Because the way I see it, he must be devoted to one singular diety, not skimming over them so he can reap the benefits of both.
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 23, 2003 18:16:13 Most people would probably agree that only the Gods of the Dragonlance pantheon should apply in a Dragonlance campaign. It's your campaign, so do what you want, but I'm not sure how much else you'll get from anyone.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 23, 2003 18:25:18 I haven't heard of Mount Celestia, but then I don't have the Book of Exalted Deeds.

The purist in me urges me to give you this advice:

You're the DM. You have every right to tell this player what he can and cannot play. If you say 'no Divine Mystic', then it's no Divine Mystic for him! This is especially valid since, well, only the Dragonlance pantheon exists in Dragonlance. That means the 3 Gods of Magic are the gods in charge of magic (except when Takhisis steals it). My call would be that this player is free to worship the gods of Mount Celestia if he wants - But they don't exist. So he gets nothing. I'd be fair, though, and warn him up front and outright. I'd also do it out of character, rather than in character. An honest, upfront telling of 'the way things are' is better than having it hinted at in chracter. At least as far as this is concerned.

Gods don't like fickle worshippers. Pick one, be faithful, and stop trying to taste from both cookie jars.

The non-purist in me says:

Err, it's your campaign, dude. You're in charge. Do what feels right.
#4
Charles_Phipps
Dec 23, 2003 18:29:58 If your incorporating the "Wheel" and Dragonlance from 2nd edition...

"worshipping" the gods of the Mount Celestia would be worshipping all the gods that live on Mount Celestia on Krynn.....let's see who those are

Paladin
Mishakale...
Solanari...

Oh wait more or less the entire pantheon of good.

Effectively I suggest that you might have Solanari appear to him in avatar form (more appropriate) and ask him for his complete devotion and an arrogant solar perhaps

It might represent a test of the divine...

On one hand he could become a full wizard
a full priest

or a balance of both if you allow the mystic class but testing mortals is all about what Exalted Deeds is for

Just remember on Krynn, ALL answer to Paladine
#5
zombiegleemax
Dec 23, 2003 18:33:27 What does the prestige class actually do? You could offer a 'DLed' version of it, if you'd rather not be so against canon.
#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 23, 2003 18:41:04 Aha! Is Mount Celestia essentially the old Dome of Creation? Except for the Wheel?
#7
zombiegleemax
Dec 23, 2003 18:50:44 Mount Celestia is kind-of the D&D version of Mount Olympus, and the Good deities reside there. The Wheel is the description of the entire cosmos, with DL, FR, DS, RL and so on all nice and neatly tucked next to each other. You can get from one to the other with a hop, skip and a plane shift, and hence, the heavens (and hells) all house the different worlds gods. It's just in one world, people only know of certain gods.

DL always kept away from these other worlds (only letting the occasional kender or gnome slip out), and made sure nothing else slipped in. Of course, when the Gods left after Chaos, the alien dragons could get in... and so on.
#8
Charles_Phipps
Dec 23, 2003 18:59:22 Actually a CHAOTIC good realm is the plane of Mount Olympus and Arvandor

Mount Celestia aka the Seven heavens is based on Dante's description of Paradise and lawful good
#9
darthsylver
Dec 23, 2003 21:29:58 Well as far as the worlds being tucked close to each other during the Fifth age, they weren't. If they were the gods of DL could have found it easily.

It is kind of hard to imagine a mortal being able to find Krynn when the gods who made could.

Now let's just say hypothectically the mortal did find Krynn during the fifth age. There were no gods during that age so any benefits from worshipping the gods is lost during this time period.

As far as when the gods are there, I doubt they (as a whole) would tolerate say an invasion by other gods. (How the "Alien" dragons found Krynn I don't know and don't buy).

Now as everyone else said if you are the DM, you are free to do what you want.
#10
Dragonhelm
Dec 23, 2003 22:03:01
Originally posted by Woodland Hero
Because the way I see it, he must be devoted to one singular diety, not skimming over them so he can reap the benefits of both.

And therein lies the key.

Basically, you cannot gain magical power from two deities in Krynn. This, in turn, affects what classes a spellcaster can multiclass with. A cleric of Chislev can also be a druid, since both classes gain their power from Chislev. A cleric of Sirrion cannot be a druid, since druids gain their power from one of the nature deities (Habbakuk, Chislev, and Zeboim).

Has this character taken the Test of High Sorcery yet?

If not, you've got a perfect Test. The Test could revolve around dedication to magic and the gods of magic, or dedication to some other deity. Of course, to fail the Test is to die... ;)

If he has taken the Test, try to work this in-game somehow. Sure, he's considering taking this course. However, when he works towards this, the Conclave gets air of it, and becomes concerned. They send a representative to reel the guy in, letting him know that he may possibly become a renegade for his lack of dedication to the Orders of High Sorcery, the magic, and the gods of magic.

Basically, I'd recommend setting your player down, and explaining that you aren't just casually a mage in Krynn. The magic of High Sorcery requires full dedication. To be honest, I believe a WoHS could easily have multiclassing restrictions similar to the paladin or monk.

Or, as a compromise, allow him to take the prestige class, but only if Solinari is the power he gets his magic from in Mount Celestia.

Now here's hoping Mrs. Dragonhelm got me the Book of Exalted Deeds for Yule. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 23, 2003 17:32:52	I'm a DM for a campaign that involves a Wizard who's primary object of worship is NOT one of the 3 moons of magic. He is taking the Divine Mystic (I believe its called that) from the Book of Exalted Deeds and there for worships the gods of Mount Celestia and not the moons. I asked him about this and he gave me a generalized answer of While he WORSHIPS the gods of mount celestia he acknowledges the Moon of his alignment (Good). What I'm asking is would it be unfair if I had this wizard resieve a vision from some celestial saying he must choose one or the other, forsaking the benefits of one to gain those of the other? Because the way I see it, he must be devoted to one singular diety, not skimming over them so he can reap the benefits of both.
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 23, 2003 18:16:13	Most people would probably agree that only the Gods of the Dragonlance pantheon should apply in a Dragonlance campaign. It's your campaign, so do what you want, but I'm not sure how much else you'll get from anyone.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 23, 2003 18:25:18	I haven't heard of Mount Celestia, but then I don't have the Book of Exalted Deeds. The purist in me urges me to give you this advice: You're the DM. You have every right to tell this player what he can and cannot play. If you say 'no Divine Mystic', then it's no Divine Mystic for him! This is especially valid since, well, only the Dragonlance pantheon exists in Dragonlance. That means the 3 Gods of Magic are the gods in charge of magic (except when Takhisis steals it). My call would be that this player is free to worship the gods of Mount Celestia if he wants - But they don't exist. So he gets nothing. I'd be fair, though, and warn him up front and outright. I'd also do it out of character, rather than in character. An honest, upfront telling of 'the way things are' is better than having it hinted at in chracter. At least as far as this is concerned. Gods don't like fickle worshippers. Pick one, be faithful, and stop trying to taste from both cookie jars. The non-purist in me says: Err, it's your campaign, dude. You're in charge. Do what feels right.
#4 Charles_Phipps Dec 23, 2003 18:29:58	If your incorporating the "Wheel" and Dragonlance from 2nd edition... "worshipping" the gods of the Mount Celestia would be worshipping all the gods that live on Mount Celestia on Krynn.....let's see who those are Paladin Mishakale... Solanari... Oh wait more or less the entire pantheon of good. Effectively I suggest that you might have Solanari appear to him in avatar form (more appropriate) and ask him for his complete devotion and an arrogant solar perhaps It might represent a test of the divine... On one hand he could become a full wizard a full priest or a balance of both if you allow the mystic class but testing mortals is all about what Exalted Deeds is for Just remember on Krynn, ALL answer to Paladine
#5 zombiegleemax Dec 23, 2003 18:33:27	What does the prestige class actually do? You could offer a 'DLed' version of it, if you'd rather not be so against canon.
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 23, 2003 18:41:04	Aha! Is Mount Celestia essentially the old Dome of Creation? Except for the Wheel?
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 23, 2003 18:50:44	Mount Celestia is kind-of the D&D version of Mount Olympus, and the Good deities reside there. The Wheel is the description of the entire cosmos, with DL, FR, DS, RL and so on all nice and neatly tucked next to each other. You can get from one to the other with a hop, skip and a plane shift, and hence, the heavens (and hells) all house the different worlds gods. It's just in one world, people only know of certain gods. DL always kept away from these other worlds (only letting the occasional kender or gnome slip out), and made sure nothing else slipped in. Of course, when the Gods left after Chaos, the alien dragons could get in... and so on.
#8 Charles_Phipps Dec 23, 2003 18:59:22	Actually a CHAOTIC good realm is the plane of Mount Olympus and Arvandor Mount Celestia aka the Seven heavens is based on Dante's description of Paradise and lawful good
#9 darthsylver Dec 23, 2003 21:29:58	Well as far as the worlds being tucked close to each other during the Fifth age, they weren't. If they were the gods of DL could have found it easily. It is kind of hard to imagine a mortal being able to find Krynn when the gods who made could. Now let's just say hypothectically the mortal did find Krynn during the fifth age. There were no gods during that age so any benefits from worshipping the gods is lost during this time period. As far as when the gods are there, I doubt they (as a whole) would tolerate say an invasion by other gods. (How the "Alien" dragons found Krynn I don't know and don't buy). Now as everyone else said if you are the DM, you are free to do what you want.
#10 Dragonhelm Dec 23, 2003 22:03:01	Originally posted by Woodland Hero Because the way I see it, he must be devoted to one singular diety, not skimming over them so he can reap the benefits of both. And therein lies the key. Basically, you cannot gain magical power from two deities in Krynn. This, in turn, affects what classes a spellcaster can multiclass with. A cleric of Chislev can also be a druid, since both classes gain their power from Chislev. A cleric of Sirrion cannot be a druid, since druids gain their power from one of the nature deities (Habbakuk, Chislev, and Zeboim). Has this character taken the Test of High Sorcery yet? If not, you've got a perfect Test. The Test could revolve around dedication to magic and the gods of magic, or dedication to some other deity. Of course, to fail the Test is to die... ;) If he has taken the Test, try to work this in-game somehow. Sure, he's considering taking this course. However, when he works towards this, the Conclave gets air of it, and becomes concerned. They send a representative to reel the guy in, letting him know that he may possibly become a renegade for his lack of dedication to the Orders of High Sorcery, the magic, and the gods of magic. Basically, I'd recommend setting your player down, and explaining that you aren't just casually a mage in Krynn. The magic of High Sorcery requires full dedication. To be honest, I believe a WoHS could easily have multiclassing restrictions similar to the paladin or monk. Or, as a compromise, allow him to take the prestige class, but only if Solinari is the power he gets his magic from in Mount Celestia. Now here's hoping Mrs. Dragonhelm got me the Book of Exalted Deeds for Yule. ;)