Frankly, I've been thinking lately how each Gaz's revelations about S have shown a colder side of her personality. We've known since Gaz I that she (well, at the time we didn't know it was a "she") was acerbic, conceited and ungrateful. What we didn't know is just how far she'll go in the pursuit of her "goal" - I don't mean a goal of cataloging the domains either, but a goal of showing everyone how she's just so much smarter. The death of her child seems not only something of which she has little remorse, but that she almost flaunts like a tool - trying to guilt her sponsor into feeling sorry for her because he's making her face the daughter's death. We've seen multiple occurences of her using torture to gain information. The woman vivisects with the best! Hmm...actually the more I think about it the more S reminds me of some of the surgeons I dealt with during internships.
Seriously though this woman has to be failing Power Checks left and right. Azalin is putting up with her attitude because he has an alterior goal in mind besides the catalog - prior to his comments about Malocchio, I was honestly starting to think he was trying to push S into becoming a Darklord so he could better analyze the situation. My long rambling point - sorry - is that as a person, I don't think any of us would like S very much (then again, how many of us would like Homer Simpson in real life?
). Yet as a character she's intriguing and not just because of her storyline.I see S as having had a very emotionally deprived life. Her mother died giving birth to her, and her father, whom S describes in the introduction to Gaz 3 as "a cold and distant man" suspected S was not his daughter and never forgave her role in his wife's death. S recalls how he called her 'his little "cuckoo's egg",' and shipped her off to distant academies. Of course S claims she was happy to go, but her resentment still echoes off the page. S spent her childhood and adolescence at a series of boarding schools, first in Nartok, then in Dementlieu, and finally at the University of Il Aluk. Did she have any friends? In Gaz 3 we meet Gaston, who was a friend of S's in Dementlieu. S says Gaston "abandoned his studies to pursue stage magic (much to my distain at the time). At subsequent meetings, he demonstrated his burgeoning skills to me." While S and Gaston remained close enough for S to see him again when she returned to Dementlieu, I think Gaston's abandonment of his studies for stage magic hurt S, because it meant she saw much less of one of her few friends.
S continued her academic career after she got a degree at Il Aluk, by doing post graduate work at the Brautslava Institute. At Brautslava she meet some professional colleagues who had skills and interests similar to her own. She might have formed an emotional tie with one or more of them, but they belonged to the Fraternity of Shadows, and they rejected S because she was a woman. That really hurt S. She is still angry about it when she writes Gaz 2.
At some point in this period of her life, S got married. Here's how she describes her marriage. "The more resources a family wields, the greater the chance that its children will be brokered away in arranged wedlock. Indeed, this is how I came by my spouse." In other words, S's family, which had given her no help except for paying for her expensive education, insisted she marry a man she did not love. In the 4 books so far published, S has never mentioned her husband again, but it's worth noting that divorce in Darkon is illegal. Unless her husband is dead, S is still legally married to him.
S's marriage produced at least one child, a daughter. When S "turned her back on Darkon in 751 to study the doom of Il Aluk", she took her daughter with her. Why did S decide to spend 5 years studying Necropolis? S has so far not answered this question. Could it be that she was fascinated by undeath? Or perhaps she shared the common Darkonian view that the destruction of Il Aluk might be the first stage in an even more horrific Doom, the Hour of the Ascension, when the Dead would take back Darkon. If one wanted to, one could picture S as a great hero, studying Necropolis in hopes of finding a way to save Darkon. But this is probably an incorrect interpretation, given the "anti-S" attitude of some of the Gazetteer's authors. Whatever S's motives for studing Necropolis, it's obvious she was absolutely determined to learn everything possible about it. So much so that when her daugher was accidently turned into a Ghoul, S decided that she would not kill her daugher, but would allow her to exist as a Ghoul in hopes her daughter might help her learn more of Necropolis.
That S 'let' her daughter become a Ghoul, is, of course, the single most important thing we know about S's psychology. It's the thing that most clearly makes S a villian, or at least an antihero. When S goes to Sithicus and must confront her sins, this is the sin that weighs upon her. S seems on the surface very unemotional, but we received a strong hint from the authors that S is a very, very unhappy woman in Gaz 3. Each of the sections in the Gazetteer's begins with a non Ravenloft quotation that's relevant to the emotional mood of the following section. In Gaz 3 the Forward, which is about S, begins with a quote from The Curious Vehicle, by Alexander Drake. It says, "...and she was gone, the sunsets were in vain, and all nature seemed mourning. After this I busied myself with all kinds of occupation, but without success. Life became sadder and sadder, until finally in despair I took a foreign trip. I travelled far and wide, but always with the same weary despondency and gloom." Why was this quotation chosen to describe S, if S is still not deep in mourning for her daughter?
I think it makes sense to conclude that S loves her daughter very deeply, and that her daughter is probably the only person S has ever loved. Despite some comments to the contary by Ryan Naylor, I think it's at least plausible to believe that one major reason (though not the only reason) why S allowed her daughter to 'live' as a Ghoul was because she couldn't bear to finally kill the one person she had ever loved. I strongly suspect her daughter plays a very important role, perhaps a pivotal role, in whatever metaplot the Kargatane had planned for S. Am I right about that?
I tend to think one reason why S accepted her assignment from Azalin, and why she resents Azalin's secrecy so much, is because she is so starved for emotional contact that she wants, perhaps without consciously realizing it, to establish an emotional relationship with Azalin. She badly wants his respect and friendship. I'm reminded of the reference in Gaz 1 to how Kartakan's must prove their worth before they can marry by performing various "labors" and how S can currently sympathize with this, because she's performing a labor that might earn her Azalin's respect. S strikes me as a very lonely woman, which is one reason why I find her an interesting and sympathetic character.
In regards to your specific comments, S doesn't seem to me motivated by a desire to prove to everyone how smart she is. She accepted Azalin's job knowing that nobody except Azalin would get to read her work. From the point of view of establishing a professional reputation, the years she's spending on the Gazetteers are entirely wasted.
Regarding the issue of torture, it's worth noting that all of the vivisections we've seen S do so far have been on various "monsters", ie wolfwere, and werepanthers, who would have been more than willing to kill S, if they'd had the chance. Van Richten would have been more than willing to kill these creatures, and to kill them in ways that would cause them great pain, and to then cut them up after they were dead to examine them, but he might, or might not, have drawn the line at examining their insides while they were still alive. S would argue the extra knowledge gained was worth it. She may be wrong,(since the Dark Powers do not believe the end justifies the means) but I can understand why she thinks that way. If most of Ravenloft's "heroes" have no objection to the killing of every "monster" they can find, (which also means a power check, though they don't know it) then isn't the issue of how quickly or painfully one kills the "monsters" a secondary issue?
Glenn Brown
Let me add a few bits more. S is smart and resourceful and is used to success. With the one possible exception of her daughter's fate I don't think "S" have ever known defeat. Conversely she doesn't generally think she can be defeated, and beleives she can handle most/all situations with proper care. She is guilty of Pride.
We also know she vivisected a lycanthrope/wolfwere. That takes some nerve and I find myself drawing parallels to Shelley and the "hubris of man". I don' think she's aware of the consequences of her actions. I don't think she cares who gets hurt in the name of her science. The ends (to her) seems to justify alamost any means.
Such a flawed charcter who none the less is very interesting to watch.
-Eric Gorman
I still feel like she's trying to prove how smart she is - even if it's only to one person, she knew setting out it was a heck of a patron (and finding out later it was Azalin was just the proverbial icing). Now she gets to try and show Azalin how smart she really is and she likes to try and tell him she's smarter. I believe she's even made comments about how she's the only one who could accomplish these tasks. I think HvF maybe put it better than me - she's committing the sin of Pride.
Regarding the vivisections, I'm not sure I would compare Van Richten's slaying of monsters to experimenting on them, especially while they're alive. Remember too that Van Richten's vengeful streak called a great curse down upon him - one which caused a lot of innocents to suffer. He might be the great hero of the demiplane, but even he had his faults - ones which he later admitted and tried to change (namely his unreasoning hatred of all Vistani). S's actions on the matter are even worse - just because they're "monsters" does not make her treatment of them any less cruel or painful. Think of it this way - even when a person is executed we don't draw the process out. Another way to think of it is this - it might be okay to kill someone in the heat of war, but I think all of us would stop and take issue to tying the person up and doing a vivisection on them; that's a sadism normally performed by individuals we liken to "evil". True the creatures weren't "human" in the normal sense but they do have human form (and in the case of the werepanther might have been human at one point) and have full intelligence. Yes, it may have been in the name of science, but I believe Mordenheim made that same arguement. ;) In other words, if the Dark Powers slap her for these actions I don't think it's a case of them being arbitrary or indiscriminate.
Still, I really liked your post and like I said it definitely made me review some of the other actions we've seen from S.
I'd give a hint, but I'm having too much fun.
Although, to back myself up, Ylem has far too much of a positive view of Our Hero. She might be deeply unhappy, but she's also a ice cold vivisectionist. The argument that she only flays alive werebeasts is not a valid one.
Given that Ryan says that S is an "ice cold vivisectionist", I think it's relevant to ask, why have Ryan and the other authors choosen to make S an ice cold vivisectionist? Why does S NEED to be so evil, to fulfill her role in the metaplot the authors have designed? Are they planning to eventually make her a Darklord? If so, what kind of curse would be appropriate for S, given that she is a vivisectionist? If S's goal is the acquisition of knowledge, one might suspect her curse will somehow limit her ability to learn. But I think that curse is far too similar to the curse which binds Azalin, so I hope that won't be S's curse, if she becomes a Darklord and acquires one. I wonder, given that S seems in Gaz 4 to be looking forward to the end of the travels she's been doing while working on the Gazetteers, whether her curse might involve her being forced to continue travelling through Ravenloft's domains forever, searching for...something. Perhaps she herself won't really know what she's looking for, since Darklords often fail to understand exactly why they are being punished. She may think it's the clue she needs to fully understand Ravenloft's mysteries. Or maybe she's looking for her daughter's spirit. Or for someone who can understand and fully forgive her sins. Or for Erza. But if S does acquire a curse along these lines, becoming something like a scholarly version of the flying dutchman or the wandering jew, she'd probably need to have a pocket domain that can travel across Domain borders. And if Azalin guessed she might acquire such a travelling domain if she became a darklord, it would explain why he is interested in her. Or perhaps S is already a travelling Darklord, (Because of something she did while studying in Necropolis?) and either doesn't know it or won't admit it? If she had some lethal curse that forced her to keep travelling, it could explain how she survived being killed by the werewolves in Gaz 4. Giving S this type of curse would also have the out of game benefit of giving future Ravenloft authors the option to use S as a narrative device if they want to do so.
So how do you like that speculation, Ryan? I know I'm probably as far off the mark as I was before, but feel free to share more hints with us, if you like.
And I hope whatever you and the other authors eventually end up doing with S makes her character more interesting rather than less.Comments, comments...
Keep in mind that while S may be making a number of Powers Checks, she typically only performs her more heinous deeds to evil individuals - which does make a difference. Not that I believe she'd be above vivisecting an individual of a goodly nature, but I highly doubt she'd ever be in a position where it would be necessary or educational (outside of possibly nabbing a wereraven or some of the Arak). As such, her Powers Checks are typically low, low, low. I'd say your average Talon does far worse than her, and about as often. So S may be reasonably making a number of Powers Checks, but the percentages are typically low, and one can argue her academic intent blunts (although does not eliminate) some of the percentile. Not to mention, Power Checks essentially exist for PC's. NPC's only become Darklords by DM (or in this case, writer) fiat.
Proving one's intellectual superiority - would you rather prove this to a large number of people of potentially good intellects, or just to one exceptionally intelligent one? Who also happens to be a king and archmage? The acquisition of reputation, contacts, and a sense of esteem boosting would be better served through Azalin than most anyone else, I'd say, whose respect would go a long way further than just about anyone elses in Ravenloft, which even one not privy to his nature could see.
Darklordship - not possible, not yet, anyway. She directly interviewed Dominic D'Honaire. That's either not possible, or one really, really small domain. I'll go with the not possible option. Besides, she doesn't seem to have much of a curse at the moment; judging from S' character, if she were to be cursed, the last thing she would be gaining would be the attention of Azalin Rex, from my perspective. His attention seems only feed her ego even more.
The why's of her character...she's meant, in part, at least from my perspective, to provide a contrast to Van Richten. This is why she's evil. This is also why she's not going to be seeking any form of redemption. Good has been done. A sense of redemption has been done. Humility, mercy, a sense of martyrdom, and so on, and so on...done, done, done and done.
Of course, her being evil may play into the plot above and beyond just providing the contrast to Van Richten, but it's just as valid an attitude as a lighter one. One likely wouldn't ask why Van Richten was good. Then again, Van Richten didn't seem to have been made with the same purpose and plot behind him as S has.
Ahh...lessee...passing notes...
I doubt S is going to become a Darklord, if for the simple fact that it might put more emphasis on her, and less on the domains that she's traveling through - which is, after all, the point of the Gazetteers.
Anyway. Blah. Off I go.
Did anyone else notice in Gaz 2 that she visited a Vistani allegedly with the power to tell someone's time of death, and the Vistani just looked at her quizzicly?
This nice small bit of foreshadowing means (a) she isn't going to die (b) she's not really alive (c) her life is not really her own.
By (b) it could be that she is some kind of construct created by aslin, and her memories are part of her programming. Her memories are always vaugly mentioned, as though she is subconciously not wanting to push them
By (c) I mean.. well, anyone ever see Angel heart (awfulfilm, but some interesting ideas) basicly, Her body is inhibited with another spirit (possibly a fiend) with the previous owners memories stitched over it but still under Azlins control. All the better to make sure she goes through with the job at hand.
Or she could be all she seems to be (yeah right!
I also considered the hint in gaz 2 with the seer. My guess is that she is not a construct of Azalin, since Azalin's notes refer to her daughter at several points as if the daughter actually existed. My guess at the time is that in the end her daughter is going to turn her into a ghoul which is less that she deserves.
I like having an evil narrator for the books, a change from all the In Character storytellers being monster slayers and all around livng saints (Van Richten and the Wethermay-Foxgrove tarts).
The other extreme is the narrator being a monster or Darklord like Strahd in that book done by him, whatever the title is...
Originally posted by Ylem
frandelgearslip, becoming undead is not *that* uncommon a fate in Darkon, so I don't think it probable that the Lost Seer would be shocked speechless to meet someone who would have that fate. Surely she would have meet others besides S who were going to become undead? (Assuming of course that the Lost Seer really can see the deaths of the people she meets.) So I suspect that when the the authors mentioned the Lost Seer they may have been foreshadowing some fate for S that's far stranger than just becoming a ghoul. Oh, and at the risk of continuing to come across as an S apologist, I don't think its fair to say S is a child murderer. After all, she didn't kill her daughter, she just lost control of the ghoul who killed her daughter. Her great sin is that she didn't destroy her daughter after she became a ghoul, even though her daughter wanted her to.
No her great fault is that she does not give a damn about her daughter. As I read it she put her daughter in an extremely dangerous situation (not unlike dangling a baby off a balcony or over a hungry crocidile) and then the ghoul broke forth and killed her daughter. Anybody who does that is just as guilty of the crime as the ghoul. As I read it she did not destroy her daughter because she could not be bothered with it. What does she care if her daughter is a ghoul or not, she has got better things to do then put her daughter to rest. To me that is her crime. She shows no remorse at all and even Azalin comments on her lack of remorse (and that is damning coming from a guy who executed his own son).
At least Azalin plans to bring his son back some time in the future, S doesn't give a rats ass about her daughter. And whatever her fate is (and your probably right about the undead thing) I doubt it will be pleasant.
Originally posted by frandelgearslip
No her great fault is that she does not give a damn about her daughter. As I read it she put her daughter in an extremely dangerous situation (not unlike dangling a baby off a balcony or over a hungry crocidile) and then the ghoul broke forth and killed her daughter. Anybody who does that is just as guilty of the crime as the ghoul. As I read it she did not destroy her daughter because she could not be bothered with it. What does she care if her daughter is a ghoul or not, she has got better things to do then put her daughter to rest. To me that is her crime. She shows no remorse at all and even Azalin comments on her lack of remorse (and that is damning coming from a guy who executed his own son).
At least Azalin plans to bring his son back some time in the future, S doesn't give a rats ass about her daughter. And whatever her fate is (and your probably right about the undead thing) I doubt it will be pleasant.
I am not an S appologist but I think this might be off a bit. I do believe she feels remorse for her lost daughter before her Sithicus experience.
I think you're absolutely right when you condemn her for for recklessly endangering her daughter to the ghoul. In fact I've sometimes wondered what she used for bait in her ghoul trap. =(
But I don't think that because she doesn't share her feelings often in the Doomsday Gazateers that she doesn't have them. What seems more likely to me (in keeping with her character as the scientist who never thinks about the ethics of how she is advancing her knowledge) is that the advanatages of using her daughter to gain additional knowledge of Necropolis far far outweighted whatever feelings she had/has.
S is one cold calculating fish in my book. Coal for sure.
-Eric Gorman