Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 evilrafael Dec 24, 2003 14:59:44	There's more discussion on the rules for the insects here, though this time the problem is not necessarily of game balance, but interpretation. In the corebook, p.13 it says: "Natural weapons: thri-kreen may make bite and claw attacks as a full round action. Their primary claw attack does 1d4 points of damage for each of their four claws. Their secondary bite attack deals 1d4 points, and has a chance to poison. For more on natural attacks, see Monster Manual." From what I understood from the MM, in a full round-action an unarmed kreen could attack with 4 claws with his highest attack bonus (BAB + strength + secondary modifiers), and then bite with the same bonus - 5. No problem. Now what happens if the kreen is using a gythka? Or even better, can he use two gythkas, or a gythka and two short swords? Or the gythka, a claw and a thrown chatkcha? Can he choose all these combinations? Can he attack with four weapons? Can he attack with some weapons and some claws? Does he still bite when that happens?? Eww many questions :D anybody help meeee
#2 flip Dec 24, 2003 16:43:36	Once you start throwing weapons into the mix, Kreen are no longer using their natural attacks, and don't use their natural attack rates. In other words, if they're using a weapon, than any secondary attacks made are at the same rate, with the same penalties ... regardless of whether or not those secondary attacks are with claws, chatckas or another weapon.
#3 evilrafael Dec 24, 2003 21:58:17	Hmmmm I see....... Well! On with the playtesting then! :D Can't wait now....
#4 player1 Dec 25, 2003 5:04:43	Originally posted by flip Once you start throwing weapons into the mix, Kreen are no longer using their natural attacks, and don't use their natural attack rates. In other words, if they're using a weapon, than any secondary attacks made are at the same rate, with the same penalties ... regardless of whether or not those secondary attacks are with claws, chatckas or another weapon. Wrong. In that case, all natural attacks become secondary natural attacks (+0.5Str, -5 to hit). So you could have Two-Weapon-Fighting kreen use 2 longswords with standard -2 penality and 2 claws and bite with -5 penality and +0.5Str bonus.
#5 evilrafael Dec 25, 2003 9:53:41	Yeah, taking a look at other monsters in the MM, you'll see they actually use all attacks they can, they bite, whip their tails, punch, swing swords all in the same round. Take the noble salamander as an example. Primary attacks with weapon (a spear, and has three attacks due to high base attack bonus), and -5 to all others.
#6 flip Dec 26, 2003 12:00:47	Originally posted by player1 In that case, all natural attacks become secondary natural attacks (+0.5Str, -5 to hit). So you could have Two-Weapon-Fighting kreen use 2 longswords with standard -2 penality and 2 claws and bite with -5 penality and +0.5Str bonus. Ferg. You're right, the natural distinction still applies. Have I mentioned that I kind of hate the way natural attacks are mystically "different" than unnatural attacks?
#7 nytcrawlr Dec 29, 2003 11:19:00	You're not the only one...
#8 evilrafael Dec 29, 2003 20:14:36	Ok, just to be sure then: does that kreen's secondary natural attacks penalty -5 stack with the standard two weapon fighting penalty? My guess is "no", am I right? To hell with these kreens, they are real war machines.
#9 nytcrawlr Dec 29, 2003 20:24:15	You would be correct...