Outsiders! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Outsiders!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2003 12:16:59 I always liked the idea of the three different versions of fiends (Baatezu, Tanar'ri & Yugoloth) and the way they were presented in the Planescape setting. But introducing them and other outsiders into a Dragonlance campaign I didn't dare because of the fragile 'Krynn feeling'.
In the AoM it is said that the gods after the war of souls would do anything to get new worshippers and more influence.
Perhaps now in this time of challenge they would use fiends, celestials or other outsiders as divine/unholy emissaries.

Which outsiders would you associate with the different deities of Krynn or would you use outsiders in your DL-game at all ?
#2
baron_the_curse
Dec 26, 2003 13:21:14 Unless specifically design for a setting, (such as Lolth’s handmaiden’s) all Outsiders can be use in a Dragonlance campaign. Use alignment to determined which fiend best serves the gods, for example, Takhisis has the lawful Baatezu.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2003 15:56:01 Yeah, you could have all those things living in the abyss... nothing is really written about the denizens or ecology of dragonlances' other planes, so I would say its fair game...
#4
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2003 20:57:05 Prior to the 3E cosmology I always just relied on the Great Wheel and worked with the assumption that Krynn's gods lived where the Planescape stuff said they did.

It was remarked somewhere (I can't remember where) that the Draconians were created by infusing Abishai (a kind of devil) into the dragon eggs. So Takhisis clearly had devils up her sleeve.

It's not at all unreasonable to suggest that the gods have divine servitors. Indeed, most mythologies assume just that (for folks who mistakenly think that angels and devils are a purely Judeo-Christian concept).

The Gods of Good are likely served by Paladine (and now Mishakal and Kiri-Joilth) was probably served mainly by Aasimon and Archons. Habbakuk likely preferred Guardinals while Branchala probably favors Eladrin.

The Gods of Neutrality probably have some Rilmani in their service. I wouldn't put it past Sirrion to have some Slaadi too.

The Gods of Evil will likewise have devils (especially Sargonnas), yugoloths (whose mercenary nature fits well with Hiddukel) or demons (especially Zeboim and possibly Chemosh).

I still just assume that the Krynnish cosmology is just a series of demiplanes that "surround" Krynn in the Ethereal, and that beyond them lies the Great Wheel, from which the gods can recruit proper servants.

But I do think that Outsiders should be rare on Krynn (the gods like to keep their experiment as uncontaminated as possible) and that any encounter with an Outer Planar being should be dramatic and memorable for the players.
#5
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2003 21:04:06 Case in point: in the old 1e DLA, it stated that the first draconians were created by channeling abishai (draconic devils) into the unhatched good dragon eggs. If you're worried about your DL flavor (mmmm tasty:D ) consider somethig along that tact. Play up the corrupting power of the Abyssal denizens and the rare hope that the celestials bring. As armies of outsiders probably wouldn't be in keeping with the feel of DL (been done to death elsewhere), it's probably a safer bet to introduce outsiders more as individual NPC rather than as shock troops and Knight-bait.

But that's just me ;) Hope it helps
#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2003 21:42:19 Probably aren't going to find many Modrons on Krynn. A few poor rorty cubes trapped in Mt. Nevermind....
#7
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2003 21:46:08 The gnomes would adore them! In a slightly icky vivisection kind of way.

However, since I've always stuck with the notion that nearly all modrons (except the odd rogue here and there) work for your namesake, I doubt they'd be in the Krynn god's arsenals. But you never know...
#8
zombiegleemax
Dec 26, 2003 21:57:07 Nearly? All modrons are my followers, and I their lord. That does not mean you will not find any on krynn. We are known to wander far from Mechanus in our mission of perfect Order. Whose to say that a small group of modrons aren't on (or around) Krynn working on our objectives.

This is all dependant on whether or not Planescape exists in yuor campaign world of course.
#9
zombiegleemax
Dec 27, 2003 0:13:01
Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime
Nearly? All modrons are my followers, and I their lord. That does not mean you will not find any on krynn. We are known to wander far from Mechanus in our mission of perfect Order. Whose to say that a small group of modrons aren't on (or around) Krynn working on our objectives.

And being hunted by eager gnomes just dying to dismantle them and examine their highlysophisticatedprobabablyclockworkbutdefinitelynotsteampoweredselfmotivtationsystemsandunexplainedbut clearlyfascinatingartificalintelligence.

I doubt any of the Krynn gods meet your extremely tight standards of lawfulness Primus, so I'm sure they don't have modron employees.

But I agree with those that see outsiders as dramatic monsters and not random encounters or thugs. Dark clerics or wizards might summon fiends to Krynn with the aid of their gods and thwarting such supernatural foes could be the focus of a whole adventure series. Such fiends would not be random engines of destruction, but would have a clear god-given agenda they are trying to advance.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2003 12:16:59	I always liked the idea of the three different versions of fiends (Baatezu, Tanar'ri & Yugoloth) and the way they were presented in the Planescape setting. But introducing them and other outsiders into a Dragonlance campaign I didn't dare because of the fragile 'Krynn feeling'. In the AoM it is said that the gods after the war of souls would do anything to get new worshippers and more influence. Perhaps now in this time of challenge they would use fiends, celestials or other outsiders as divine/unholy emissaries. Which outsiders would you associate with the different deities of Krynn or would you use outsiders in your DL-game at all ?
#2 baron_the_curse Dec 26, 2003 13:21:14	Unless specifically design for a setting, (such as Lolth’s handmaiden’s) all Outsiders can be use in a Dragonlance campaign. Use alignment to determined which fiend best serves the gods, for example, Takhisis has the lawful Baatezu.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2003 15:56:01	Yeah, you could have all those things living in the abyss... nothing is really written about the denizens or ecology of dragonlances' other planes, so I would say its fair game...
#4 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2003 20:57:05	Prior to the 3E cosmology I always just relied on the Great Wheel and worked with the assumption that Krynn's gods lived where the Planescape stuff said they did. It was remarked somewhere (I can't remember where) that the Draconians were created by infusing Abishai (a kind of devil) into the dragon eggs. So Takhisis clearly had devils up her sleeve. It's not at all unreasonable to suggest that the gods have divine servitors. Indeed, most mythologies assume just that (for folks who mistakenly think that angels and devils are a purely Judeo-Christian concept). The Gods of Good are likely served by Paladine (and now Mishakal and Kiri-Joilth) was probably served mainly by Aasimon and Archons. Habbakuk likely preferred Guardinals while Branchala probably favors Eladrin. The Gods of Neutrality probably have some Rilmani in their service. I wouldn't put it past Sirrion to have some Slaadi too. The Gods of Evil will likewise have devils (especially Sargonnas), yugoloths (whose mercenary nature fits well with Hiddukel) or demons (especially Zeboim and possibly Chemosh). I still just assume that the Krynnish cosmology is just a series of demiplanes that "surround" Krynn in the Ethereal, and that beyond them lies the Great Wheel, from which the gods can recruit proper servants. But I do think that Outsiders should be rare on Krynn (the gods like to keep their experiment as uncontaminated as possible) and that any encounter with an Outer Planar being should be dramatic and memorable for the players.
#5 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2003 21:04:06	Case in point: in the old 1e DLA, it stated that the first draconians were created by channeling abishai (draconic devils) into the unhatched good dragon eggs. If you're worried about your DL flavor (mmmm tasty:D ) consider somethig along that tact. Play up the corrupting power of the Abyssal denizens and the rare hope that the celestials bring. As armies of outsiders probably wouldn't be in keeping with the feel of DL (been done to death elsewhere), it's probably a safer bet to introduce outsiders more as individual NPC rather than as shock troops and Knight-bait. But that's just me ;) Hope it helps
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2003 21:42:19	Probably aren't going to find many Modrons on Krynn. A few poor rorty cubes trapped in Mt. Nevermind....
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2003 21:46:08	The gnomes would adore them! In a slightly icky vivisection kind of way. However, since I've always stuck with the notion that nearly all modrons (except the odd rogue here and there) work for your namesake, I doubt they'd be in the Krynn god's arsenals. But you never know...
#8 zombiegleemax Dec 26, 2003 21:57:07	Nearly? All modrons are my followers, and I their lord. That does not mean you will not find any on krynn. We are known to wander far from Mechanus in our mission of perfect Order. Whose to say that a small group of modrons aren't on (or around) Krynn working on our objectives. This is all dependant on whether or not Planescape exists in yuor campaign world of course.
#9 zombiegleemax Dec 27, 2003 0:13:01	Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime Nearly? All modrons are my followers, and I their lord. That does not mean you will not find any on krynn. We are known to wander far from Mechanus in our mission of perfect Order. Whose to say that a small group of modrons aren't on (or around) Krynn working on our objectives. And being hunted by eager gnomes just dying to dismantle them and examine their highlysophisticatedprobabablyclockworkbutdefinitelynotsteampoweredselfmotivtationsystemsandunexplainedbut clearlyfascinatingartificalintelligence. I doubt any of the Krynn gods meet your extremely tight standards of lawfulness Primus, so I'm sure they don't have modron employees. But I agree with those that see outsiders as dramatic monsters and not random encounters or thugs. Dark clerics or wizards might summon fiends to Krynn with the aid of their gods and thwarting such supernatural foes could be the focus of a whole adventure series. Such fiends would not be random engines of destruction, but would have a clear god-given agenda they are trying to advance.