Personally, I would like to see a game based not on continuing the adventures of the Nameless One (although the idea of leading a little petitioner through battle after battle in the lower planes has a certain appeal), but rather a spin-off. Perhaps a completely new story, new characters, and only passing references to the first game. I would hope it has the same dramatic weight loaded onto a single central PC (whose alignment you are in control of), but this time around, spin through more outer planes, see MANY more fiends, and have even weirder party-members. A bariaur is a must. And an aasimar. Ooh, maybe even a slaad! And who hasnt imagined what it'd be like to play a reformed bodak? Honestly!
Maybe they could do an entire computer-game transfer of the Great Modron March and Dead Gods modules. Ohh, ecstasy.
That's quite enough hopeless dreaming for me.
Not only focused on battles, but also on politics and things like that.
While we're daydreaming though, I'd like to see the Black Isle team work with the original Planescape team on a sequel. I'd like to see a more open-ended game out of it though, PS:T had a lot of personal character options, but the basic plot played out like a book.
Torment had the same quests, with mostly the same solutions throughout, the only thing that varied was what reasons you took the quests for, what options you selected in dialogue, etc. The outcome was the same most of the way through. At the end, you can defeat your mortality, and get dragged into the blood war. You can merge with your mortality, and get dragged into the blood war. You can die, and the game just ungloriously ends, with the nameless one left in eternal torment, causing pain forever to those around him, with no possible salvation. (And not even a pre-render video). What's the fourth?
Play through Torment again, and try letting the gate-town slip and stay on Carceri. Can you beat the game? No. Good or evil, you've gotta save it. Try ignoring Ravel. Didn't work? I'm not suprised. You've gotta go through her. You even have to talk to her, and choose some of the right dialogue, or she attacks you and if you kill her, the game ends. That's not very open ended.
Something like Fallout 2 however, had lots of quests you could do or not do, and most of them could be done many ways, all of which affected your alignment. I even tried playing an arms trader once, to see if I could get away with a character that didn't much care about the plot, except to advance it a little here and there, and even then, only at his own profit. Guess what? One of the most entertaining, not to mention powerful, characters I ever made. Fallout was great. If you wanted to go to New Reno, meet the drug boss, and get yourself into his employ? No problem. You want to screw with his buisness? Yeah, you can do that too. You want to kill him? Yup. Have sex with his wife or daughter, then kill him when he's angry about it? Sure thing! Skip that entire city altogether? Can Do.
By "Open Ended" I mean the breadth of choices your character can make that affect the game world. Not merely wether you save a town from slipping into carceri because you think it's good, or because there's cool stuff to be looted. Don't get me wrong, I love the game. it's just that you're not very free to do things as you see fit. You can either accept the important quests for good reasons, for evil reasons, or have the npc ask you again.
Originally posted by mrgoat
Really? Chrono trigger had over 12, and I've seen them all. They're all really tied to when you beat the game the second time through though.
Torment had the same quests, with mostly the same solutions throughout, the only thing that varied was what reasons you took the quests for, what options you selected in dialogue, etc. The outcome was the same most of the way through. At the end, you can defeat your mortality, and get dragged into the blood war. You can merge with your mortality, and get dragged into the blood war. You can die, and the game just ungloriously ends, with the nameless one left in eternal torment, causing pain forever to those around him, with no possible salvation. (And not even a pre-render video). What's the fourth?
Play through Torment again, and try letting the gate-town slip and stay on Carceri. Can you beat the game? No. Good or evil, you've gotta save it. Try ignoring Ravel. Didn't work? I'm not suprised. You've gotta go through her. You even have to talk to her, and choose some of the right dialogue, or she attacks you and if you kill her, the game ends. That's not very open ended.
Something like Fallout 2 however, had lots of quests you could do or not do, and most of them could be done many ways, all of which affected your alignment. I even tried playing an arms trader once, to see if I could get away with a character that didn't much care about the plot, except to advance it a little here and there, and even then, only at his own profit. Guess what? One of the most entertaining, not to mention powerful, characters I ever made. Fallout was great. If you wanted to go to New Reno, meet the drug boss, and get yourself into his employ? No problem. You want to screw with his buisness? Yeah, you can do that too. You want to kill him? Yup. Have sex with his wife or daughter, then kill him when he's angry about it? Sure thing! Skip that entire city altogether? Can Do.
By "Open Ended" I mean the breadth of choices your character can make that affect the game world. Not merely wether you save a town from slipping into carceri because you think it's good, or because there's cool stuff to be looted. Don't get me wrong, I love the game. it's just that you're not very free to do things as you see fit. You can either accept the important quests for good reasons, for evil reasons, or have the npc ask you again.
On the other hand there are good reasons for the game to be linear. You don't "have" to save Curst, it's just that you have to speak with Trias, he won't do it unless you fight him and defeating him will save the town. You can't kill Ravel because she is the only one to know the way out and what to do.
It's linear? Yes. Is it good? Yes. Is it better than Fallout? Hell yes. (note that Fallout is still one of my favourites, it just don't hold a candle to Planescape)
And Fallout too, for that matter, has some matter of linearity, you have to get the boat running, you have to beat the Enclave etc. etc. etc.
Personally I'd love for PS:T2 to have TNO as a focal character but not as *your* character. He should be mentioned at least, in a side-quest. And I *do* want at least some of the NPCs to show up again :D
At the end, you can defeat your mortality, and get dragged into the blood war. You can merge with your mortality, and get dragged into the blood war. You can die, and the game just ungloriously ends, with the nameless one left in eternal torment, causing pain forever to those around him, with no possible salvation.
It was third on the list of three. Getting killed by the Transcendent One has the same effect of killing yourself on the blade of the immortal, or being flayed, or incinerated by Ignus. Or are you counting "You have died permanently, game over." and "You can no longer complete the game, because you screwed up big time." as two different endings?
Still. I'd love for a nice jaunt through the planes. Something that would injure even modern computer systems with its sheer size.
mmmn.
Originally posted by mrgoat
You can die, and the game just ungloriously ends, with the nameless one left in eternal torment, causing pain forever to those around him, with no possible salvation. (And not even a pre-render video).
Well, I just LOVE the video of The Lady flaying The Nameless One, and then appears that "You picked up the wrong person to test your immortality" message.
--- Bye
A new story with new characters and the same kind of gameplay as in PS:T would be great. I still prefer PS:T to other Black Isle RPG's because of the unique in-game possibilities tied to the setting such as changing the universe with your mind, the mutable alignment, etc.
Besides, the great deal of dialogue and story possibilities was wonderful.
I still think it's too bad that the designers of Icewind Dale, BG2 etc. never paid much attention to what happened with PS:T. They could have incorporated some great elements and although the general game system and playability of BG2 and IWD2 is great, it misses that great storyline that PS:T has.
Anyway, all for a new CRPG in the Planescape setting...
--- Bye
If you berks are really dying for some Planescape CRPG action, check out the City of Doors Initiative @ http://www.city-of-doors.com/index.php. Those hard-working (though not always punctual) bashers are making Planescape material for Neverwinter Nights.
Here's what he says about a possible Planescape: Torment sequel:
GB: Many people consider the Fallout series and Planescape: Torment as some of Black Isle's greatest achievements. Why did the original Fallout spawn a sequel and the start of a third chapter, yet no plans were seemingly made for further Planescape titles? Or were there?
John: To the best of my knowledge there were no plans to make a sequel to Planescape: Torment. I can only speculate on the reason why. Here are my thoughts.
Fallout was based in 1950's Americana. It was in our "backyard" so to say. I think that appealed to a lot of people. Also, it had an innocent and light hearted feel to it even though it was based on a very frightening (at the time) premise: survival after a nuclear holocaust. The story itself was simple and led to multiple endings in which the player truly shaped his world. Sales were much better than anticipated.
Planescape: Torment was a brilliant piece of work. To this day I've never encountered a story with such depth and perception in any game. I doubt that I ever will. However, I think that Torment was too radical a departure from the "norm" so to say. Our fans were used to DnD games based in typical DnD fantasy universes. As a result, initial sales were poor. However, over time the sales rivaled many of our other titles due to word of mouth. People loved the game. Unfortunately, I don't think Interplay wanted to risk development on a sequel unless they were guaranteed initial good sell through.
One more question. Sorry if it's been asked before. I've been playing planescape 2E for a long time and havent got into the 3E rules. But I heard they changed the great wheel to something else? Is this true?
I also heard that somebody was working on a 3E planescape.
Is it official or fan made?
Sorry for rambling, but since Asmodeus changed me into A giant slug. Well, I don't have much time for posting
In keeping with the "each campaign has its own cosmology" the general concensus is that planescape's cosmology contains a prime material plane with every crystal sphere floating in the phlogiston, just like the good ol' days. So what if the official forgotten realms has Toril bobbing at the center of creation? In our setting (which is just as valid) it is just one of many prime worlds!
The official fansite of Planescape is Planewalker.com which intends on producing a full 3e conversion for planescape (it already has skills, feats, and races out).
When I defeat Mephistopheles and have the power to take the throne of Nessus. You will get a reward.
Merge with TTO:
1. Threaten him with the "Blade of the Immortal."
2. Threaten to unmake yourself with your will (min. WIS of 24).
3. Threaten him with your true name (must have used the Bronze Sphere).
4. Convince him things will be ok if you merge (min. CHA of 24).
Kill yourself:
1. Use the "Blade of the Immortal."
2. Unmake yourself with your will (min. WIS of 24).
Kill TTO:
1. Kill him by normal combat alone.
2. Resurrect one of your companions while talking to him. Pick Morte first as he is not really dead, then you can pick someone else too.
3. Resurrect all your party members by tricking him to go check the Shadows (need to have found the "Sounding Stone" in the room with the crystal).
These are the movies that go with each ending;
-merging with TTO is [merge with TTO]+[blood war]+[credits].
-killing TTO in combat is [TTO dying]+[blood war]+[credits].
-killing TTO by willing yourself out of existence or using the "Blade of the Immortal" on yourself while in dialog with TTO is [TTO dying]+[credits].
Originally posted by xanatos
There was another ending... It was unfinished and, if you "selected" it, the game crashed. If you discovered that the King of the Undeads was "truly dead", you where offered his place as the new Underking... It was a "forever" work :-) And you could accept it...
Well, it was bugged, not unfinished. The Fix Pack fixes it;
http://www.accesswave.ca/~cthorpe/
I reckon we start a petition to Black Isle to make a Planescape: Torment 2 (working title). If we get enough signatures, we might be able to actually get the ball rolling.
There are a few things you need to understand;
-Interplay no longer owns the rights to Torment, which is also why the game is out of print
-The Lead Designer of Torment (who basically wrote the entire story for the game) has said he did not want a direct sequel to the game
-Most of the people who worked on the game no longer work for Interplay
-Interplay has recently switched to making console games only (the "Black Isle Studios" division does not really exist anymore)
Originally posted by Sildatorak
The official fansite of Planescape is Planewalker.com which intends on producing a full 3e conversion for planescape (it already has skills, feats, and races out).
Don't forget the Factions section. That's where I come in!
ashy
The only thing that is stopping the designers from forming their own company (according to that interview) is lack of funds. So, if we each donated a bit of money, so that there was enough for a down payment for a loan, we might be able to convince them to get back together.
As for the story of Planescape 2, I have an idea for a storyline. Shemeska the Marauder's campaign. How many people here have stated that they wished they could play in his (?) campaign? I reckon, just from the little bit I have heard, that it would be an awesome game to play.
I myself would like nothing better to go back to Torment (it was entirely too short for me, and I suspect most anyone who played it feels the same way...) BUT I feel that doing so would result in a sequel that could only be described as obligatory. Even though many questions went unanswered and many mysteries went unexplored, I think that's precisely what makes the story so compelling -- the Nameless One, as we knew him, did not know himself, and we left him just at the right moment, that is, the moment when he regained his self and could have bored us with every little detail about his life.
The ending makes us long for more information... what happens to the Nameless One in the Blood War... what happens to those who loved him? Does Deionarra find peace? Does the Nameless One ever repay her for her suffering? How does Annah cope with the loss of the one man that she ever truly loved, the one that taught her to love? And Grace? Which of the three would the Nameless One choose to be with... what of the shadows, do they continue to exist in their hatred... what happens when the Nameless One dies, can the Transcendant One's hatred unmake the planes... and does Morte ever manage to get laid?
I suspect that the answers to these questions is much like the perennial question in the game: What can change the nature of a man? If there were answers to these questions, they could only disappoint in their simplistic meaning, or lack of meaning. Others argued above about the open-endedness of the game. I submit that the game is extremely open-ended, not so much in how one plays it, but in what one finds in the story. To create a sequel would be destroy that which made the game interesting in the first place.
I suggest instead, that rather than create a sequel to Torment, to create a different game, with the same level of character. Give us individuals and stories that are as deep, compelling, and unique as Torment's. A tall order, no doubt.
But this is not to say that some things could not been incorporated into the new game. You could always met one or some of the character from Torment in the new game; Dak’kon, Anna, Fall From Grace, Nodron or the others. They may even be able to shed some light, not the whole dark, but just a small ray of light, onto what has happened to the Nameless One. Or even a quest that involved the Blood War in some way could have the new main character actually meet the Nameless One…
The possibilities are endless...
:invasion:
Pick up right where Torment ended -- with the Nameless One shoving off to fight on a massive Blood War battlefield spanning hundreds of miles of Oinos, with the towering spine of Khin-Oin always on the horizon.
TNO is probably a pretty special petitioner (from the little I can see from end-game video, he has retained his normal form, not become a hordling or larva, and I would assume he retains most of his memory... but the process of being sucked down to Hell has conviniently reduced him back to a 1st level fighter).
As he travels through the carnage, he meets plenty of fun foes and interesting fiendish NPCs. He slowly ascends in importance, maybe leading battles, siding with one camp of Baatezu, rising to a Tanar'ri commander (least desirable commander to be), and maybe even running into some stray modrons into the fray.
The game will be nothing like Torment 1. It will be all battle, all the time! Eventually, after decimating an entire army of fiends (or maybe visiting celestials), you decide it's time you layed seige to Khin-Oin. The rest of the game follows you on a hack and slash journey up and up the fortress, killing (or subtly manipulating) Loth after Loth after Loth. Eventually, you reach the Oinoloth itself, Midianchlarus (sp?).
It will be the most spectacular final boss of all time! Think of all the disease attacks!
After you wipe the floor with him, you head over to the Seige Malicious and enjoy your newfound status as Oinoloth.
The rest of the game is rather anticlimactic, as you deal furtively with Baernoloths and play power games with the General of Gehenna. Perhaps you could lead some more battles, or even attempt to build a stronghold in Carceri, Sim-City Style, only with those lousy Gehreleths screwing everything up.
And if the prospects of a game involving a lousy petitioner fighting his way to the top of Khin-Oin, killing millions of Yugoloths offends you Shemeska, realize that the whole point of the game is in demonstrating the supremacy of Yugoloth culture in some way or another.
The name of the game would of course be Planescape: Oinslaught