Goodmonth 11th - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Goodmonth 11th

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Brom_Blackforge
Dec 31, 2003 8:15:54 "The Adventure Begins" has a calendar showing the phases of Oerth's two moons, and I noticed that Goodmonth 11th is the only day all year on which both moons are new. IMC, that was the day that a cleric of Erythnul was planning to sacrifice a captured paladin (now rescued), but otherwise, I didn't have anything in particular in mind for that day. One of my players, though, remarked on the day and indicated that it has an associated lore similar to Halloween. Can anybody confirm this?

(I'll freely admit that I haven't looked in "The Adventure Begins" yet, and I'll do that when I get a chance. If you're just going to tell me to go look it up there, well, yeah, I know. But if there's other lore out there, I'd be interested in hearing it. Thanks.)
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 31, 2003 8:34:45 The Adventure Begins is wrong.

http://www.spots.ab.ca/~whytwolf/GH/reference/calendar.htm

That's not the original by Joe Katzman, but it's pretty much exactly as he and Jason Saunders and Mike Levay made it. It's accurate, tAB is not.
#3
Brom_Blackforge
Jan 02, 2004 8:02:30 Hey Delglath, thanks for the link!

I compared the calendar on the other end of the link Delglath supplied to the one in "The Adventure Begins," and as far as the phases of the moons go, they agree on everything except when the lesser moon, Celene, is new; on that account, "TAB" is four days earlier. (Interestingly, they also differ on other accounts; for instance, they give different dates for special days like St. Cuthbert's Day and Dark Night. BTW, in "TAB," Goodmonth 11th is called Dark Night.) And after counting days, I can see why Delglath says that "TAB" is wrong.

According to the calender in "TAB," it takes longer for Celene to go from new to full than it does from full to new, whereas the calendar on the website on the other end of the aforementioned link has these periods as nearly equal. I'm no astrophysicist, but I'm not sure that there's any way "TAB" could be accurate; maybe it would be explainable by giving Celene an elliptical orbit, but I'm not sure.

So, was there some earlier product that served as the basis for the calendar on the website, or is it just the product of logical thinking? And why is "TAB" so far off? Does anybody know?
#4
zombiegleemax
Jan 02, 2004 8:07:50
Originally posted by Brom Blackforge
So, was there some earlier product that served as the basis for the calendar on the website, or is it just the product of logical thinking? And why is "TAB" so far off? Does anybody know?

Yeah, the Gazetteer and Player's Guide to Greyhawk.

The bit in the LGG that describes the phases of the moon is a direct rip-off of it.

As far as I can tell, Roger Moore was just lazy and didn't give a fig about canon. Other, more knowledgable people (read: Erik) could better answer you why. I think he was a fact checker on that product :D
#5
Brom_Blackforge
Jan 06, 2004 8:44:50
Originally posted by Delglath
The bit in the LGG that describes the phases of the moon is a direct rip-off of it.

All that the LGG says about the moons is that Luna has a fixed cycle of 28 days (which is consistent with both TAB and the website Delglath pointed out), and that Celene "follows a path that reveals her full beauty but four times each year," coinciding with the festivals (also consistent with both TAB and the calendar on the website).
#6
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 10:08:08 http://edulinux.edu2.evitech.fi/weatherforecaster/

I don't know how accurate this is, but I use it for my campaign, I believe the creator used the weather system from the '83 boxed set. The moons are only listed when they are full or new I think.

Let me know what you guys think.
#7
Brom_Blackforge
Jan 07, 2004 15:31:12
Originally posted by Lassiviren
http://edulinux.edu2.evitech.fi/weatherforecaster/

I don't know how accurate this is, but I use it for my campaign, I believe the creator used the weather system from the '83 boxed set. The moons are only listed when they are full or new I think.

Let me know what you guys think.

I checked out the link and tried it on Goodmonth. It showed both moons as new on Goodmonth 11th, so it's consistent with The Adventure Begins. I don't have the '83 boxed set, so I don't know about that.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 15:56:52 Actually after looking at it (just look at the weather for a full month) the phases of Luna are off. It skips from 3/4 to New and from Full to 1/4 etc. I hadn't noticed that before. He must have used the Adventure Begins for the phases.

I think that the weather and sunrise, sunset times work though.
#9
cwslyclgh
Jan 07, 2004 17:49:29 from Dels web link:
VIII Goodmonth (High Summer/Summer)
11th= Luna's new moon
15th= Celene's new moon
25th= Luna's full moon

this is wrong... canon would dictate that Celene is new on the 11th of good-month, this is not only from TAB, but also from the the '83 boxed set (glossography page 19)... I fail to see how repeating what was already written about the subject quaifies Moore as a Lazy writer who doesn't care about canon.
#10
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 18:59:28 This has been very interesting to read. Props to Brom for posting!

I guess I've focused on the fact that Celene waxes full in the middle of each festival week but never really attended to the date she is new. Like Brom, counting the days suggests to me that Celene should be new on the 15th of Goodmonth. However, I recall vaguely an attempt to reconcile this seeming fact with the date stipulated on page 19 of the 1983 Glossography. Was this covered in that Spelljammer supplement - Greyspace?

I believe that the baleful influence of Incabulous or Nerull (or even dread Tharizdun) was blamed for causing this anomaly...
#11
Brom_Blackforge
Jan 08, 2004 9:14:18 Personally, I like the idea that there's a day each year when both moons are new. If you follow the calendar that Delglath pointed out, then the new moons are always missing each other by a few days. I'm pleased to see that there's more to it than The Adventure Begins just being wrong. (Not that that would necessarily stop me from using it anyway . . . )
#12
zombiegleemax
Jan 08, 2004 11:10:56 My only problem with it is the impossibility of a moon going from 3/4 to New and from New to 3/4.

I do like the idea of both moons being new on the same day. But my guess if you did use a calendar similar to Delglaths they would be new on the same day every 20 years or something.
#13
zombiegleemax
Jan 08, 2004 15:47:26 The fraction symbols were published in the Glossography. See page 19. However, I'm not certain that they're intended to denote fractions but instead may have technical (lunar) meanings. Anyone an angler? Have you ever seen those charts that fishers use?

I suggest that 1/4 means "waxing half-moon" and that 3/4 means "waning half-moon" -- to use tAB's terms.

If the symbols mean that, then the Glossography and tAB accord. The online calendar to which Delglath referred (derived by Jason Saunders and Mike Levay from a work by Joe Katzman) appears "to correct" the Glossography by asserting mathematics and the logical equivalence between the duration of waxing and waning.

Likely this point has been discussed in detail on GreyTalk. After posting, I may go "check the Archives."

You may be interested that recently on GreyTalk, someone posted about an entirely different calendar system -- reportedly published in the 1980 Folio and not featuring an "almost perfect" cosmology.

IMC, I prefer the "almost perfect" cosmology and will explain the anomaly of when Celene is new with "magic" -- whether it be dread Tharizdun struggling to awaken, the shadow of Nerull's scythe, or some other malign force.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Brom_Blackforge Dec 31, 2003 8:15:54	"The Adventure Begins" has a calendar showing the phases of Oerth's two moons, and I noticed that Goodmonth 11th is the only day all year on which both moons are new. IMC, that was the day that a cleric of Erythnul was planning to sacrifice a captured paladin (now rescued), but otherwise, I didn't have anything in particular in mind for that day. One of my players, though, remarked on the day and indicated that it has an associated lore similar to Halloween. Can anybody confirm this? (I'll freely admit that I haven't looked in "The Adventure Begins" yet, and I'll do that when I get a chance. If you're just going to tell me to go look it up there, well, yeah, I know. But if there's other lore out there, I'd be interested in hearing it. Thanks.)
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 31, 2003 8:34:45	The Adventure Begins is wrong. http://www.spots.ab.ca/~whytwolf/GH/reference/calendar.htm That's not the original by Joe Katzman, but it's pretty much exactly as he and Jason Saunders and Mike Levay made it. It's accurate, tAB is not.
#3 Brom_Blackforge Jan 02, 2004 8:02:30	Hey Delglath, thanks for the link! I compared the calendar on the other end of the link Delglath supplied to the one in "The Adventure Begins," and as far as the phases of the moons go, they agree on everything except when the lesser moon, Celene, is new; on that account, "TAB" is four days earlier. (Interestingly, they also differ on other accounts; for instance, they give different dates for special days like St. Cuthbert's Day and Dark Night. BTW, in "TAB," Goodmonth 11th is called Dark Night.) And after counting days, I can see why Delglath says that "TAB" is wrong. According to the calender in "TAB," it takes longer for Celene to go from new to full than it does from full to new, whereas the calendar on the website on the other end of the aforementioned link has these periods as nearly equal. I'm no astrophysicist, but I'm not sure that there's any way "TAB" could be accurate; maybe it would be explainable by giving Celene an elliptical orbit, but I'm not sure. So, was there some earlier product that served as the basis for the calendar on the website, or is it just the product of logical thinking? And why is "TAB" so far off? Does anybody know?
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 02, 2004 8:07:50	Originally posted by Brom Blackforge So, was there some earlier product that served as the basis for the calendar on the website, or is it just the product of logical thinking? And why is "TAB" so far off? Does anybody know? Yeah, the Gazetteer and Player's Guide to Greyhawk. The bit in the LGG that describes the phases of the moon is a direct rip-off of it. As far as I can tell, Roger Moore was just lazy and didn't give a fig about canon. Other, more knowledgable people (read: Erik) could better answer you why. I think he was a fact checker on that product :D
#5 Brom_Blackforge Jan 06, 2004 8:44:50	Originally posted by Delglath The bit in the LGG that describes the phases of the moon is a direct rip-off of it. All that the LGG says about the moons is that Luna has a fixed cycle of 28 days (which is consistent with both TAB and the website Delglath pointed out), and that Celene "follows a path that reveals her full beauty but four times each year," coinciding with the festivals (also consistent with both TAB and the calendar on the website).
#6 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 10:08:08	http://edulinux.edu2.evitech.fi/weatherforecaster/ I don't know how accurate this is, but I use it for my campaign, I believe the creator used the weather system from the '83 boxed set. The moons are only listed when they are full or new I think. Let me know what you guys think.
#7 Brom_Blackforge Jan 07, 2004 15:31:12	Originally posted by Lassiviren http://edulinux.edu2.evitech.fi/weatherforecaster/ I don't know how accurate this is, but I use it for my campaign, I believe the creator used the weather system from the '83 boxed set. The moons are only listed when they are full or new I think. Let me know what you guys think. I checked out the link and tried it on Goodmonth. It showed both moons as new on Goodmonth 11th, so it's consistent with The Adventure Begins. I don't have the '83 boxed set, so I don't know about that.
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 15:56:52	Actually after looking at it (just look at the weather for a full month) the phases of Luna are off. It skips from 3/4 to New and from Full to 1/4 etc. I hadn't noticed that before. He must have used the Adventure Begins for the phases. I think that the weather and sunrise, sunset times work though.
#9 cwslyclgh Jan 07, 2004 17:49:29	from Dels web link: VIII Goodmonth (High Summer/Summer) 11th= Luna's new moon 15th= Celene's new moon 25th= Luna's full moon this is wrong... canon would dictate that Celene is new on the 11th of good-month, this is not only from TAB, but also from the the '83 boxed set (glossography page 19)... I fail to see how repeating what was already written about the subject quaifies Moore as a Lazy writer who doesn't care about canon.
#10 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 18:59:28	This has been very interesting to read. Props to Brom for posting! I guess I've focused on the fact that Celene waxes full in the middle of each festival week but never really attended to the date she is new. Like Brom, counting the days suggests to me that Celene should be new on the 15th of Goodmonth. However, I recall vaguely an attempt to reconcile this seeming fact with the date stipulated on page 19 of the 1983 Glossography. Was this covered in that Spelljammer supplement - Greyspace? I believe that the baleful influence of Incabulous or Nerull (or even dread Tharizdun) was blamed for causing this anomaly...
#11 Brom_Blackforge Jan 08, 2004 9:14:18	Personally, I like the idea that there's a day each year when both moons are new. If you follow the calendar that Delglath pointed out, then the new moons are always missing each other by a few days. I'm pleased to see that there's more to it than The Adventure Begins just being wrong. (Not that that would necessarily stop me from using it anyway . . . )
#12 zombiegleemax Jan 08, 2004 11:10:56	My only problem with it is the impossibility of a moon going from 3/4 to New and from New to 3/4. I do like the idea of both moons being new on the same day. But my guess if you did use a calendar similar to Delglaths they would be new on the same day every 20 years or something.
#13 zombiegleemax Jan 08, 2004 15:47:26	The fraction symbols were published in the Glossography. See page 19. However, I'm not certain that they're intended to denote fractions but instead may have technical (lunar) meanings. Anyone an angler? Have you ever seen those charts that fishers use? I suggest that 1/4 means "waxing half-moon" and that 3/4 means "waning half-moon" -- to use tAB's terms. If the symbols mean that, then the Glossography and tAB accord. The online calendar to which Delglath referred (derived by Jason Saunders and Mike Levay from a work by Joe Katzman) appears "to correct" the Glossography by asserting mathematics and the logical equivalence between the duration of waxing and waning. Likely this point has been discussed in detail on GreyTalk. After posting, I may go "check the Archives." You may be interested that recently on GreyTalk, someone posted about an entirely different calendar system -- reportedly published in the 1980 Folio and not featuring an "almost perfect" cosmology. IMC, I prefer the "almost perfect" cosmology and will explain the anomaly of when Celene is new with "magic" -- whether it be dread Tharizdun struggling to awaken, the shadow of Nerull's scythe, or some other malign force.