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Corellon in Greyhawk?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 31, 2003 14:06:27 I just got the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer before starying a LG campaign and I wanted to make an Elf who worshipped Corellon Larethian. I figured he'd be in there due to the PHB using Greyhawk as its primary setting.

SO, I went to the deities chapter and looked him up... and found zip.

So, is Corellon part of the Greyhawk pantheon, or does some other deity take his place?

Thanks a bunch
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 31, 2003 14:13:54 Hey. Yes, Corellon is part of the Greyhawk pantheon. His presence in the PHB makes him part of the core pantheon, and he is a viable deity for LGH too.

He was not described in the LGG most likely for reasons of space -- although we might check with the authors or editor on that explanation.
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 31, 2003 15:33:40
Originally posted by CannonFodder2244
I just got the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer before starying a LG campaign and I wanted to make an Elf who worshipped Corellon Larethian. I figured he'd be in there due to the PHB using Greyhawk as its primary setting.

SO, I went to the deities chapter and looked him up... and found zip.

So, is Corellon part of the Greyhawk pantheon, or does some other deity take his place?

Thanks a bunch

You can find Corellon Larethian mentioned in the following Living Greyhawk products.

LGG - Pg# 19,183,188
LGJ#0 - 12
LGJ#2 - 31
LGJ#3 - 16
#4
samwise
Dec 31, 2003 18:25:39 Corellon is a foul interloper.
The true creator of the Olve is Ehlonna.
Fie on Corellon, Lord of Generic Elves!
#5
zombiegleemax
Dec 31, 2003 18:41:57 Ehlonna?

Guess it could be a funny twist to a campaign to have her being the gawdess of the olves, actually its almost a worthy enough idea to throw on one of the other boards so we could have the all time flame fest between Eh "pry my smoking bong from my cold dead hands hippy" lonna and the elf fan boys who think Corellon "I mutilate orc men" Larethion is the true creator.
#6
zombiegleemax
Jan 01, 2004 2:01:25 Umm... isn't Ehlonna the goddess of natural beauty and harmony?

My character isn't so big on those things. He likes the woods... for a vacation... but he wouldn't live there. He'd rather be in city, where you can actually get things done.

He's a rogue who would rather charm a nun out of her habit than dwell among the trees in a sylvan glade and all that jazz.

He's a thoroughly modern medieval fantasy character.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jan 01, 2004 12:35:33 Given that description, your character may prefer Erevan Ilesere to Corellon Larethian. Ereven is the patron of Mischief, Change, & Rogues. He is included in the LGH Deities PDF, ver. 1.3.

His holy symbol is a "nova star with asymmetrical rays" and his "weapon of the deity" a +1 shock short sword.

Descriptions of him include 1e's Unearted Arcana; an old Dragon Magazine issue (from which the UA information derived); 2e's Monstrous (sp?) Mythology (the blue covered one by Carl Sargent); and at least one 2e FR product -- I think it was called "Demihuman Deities."

Paz y Justicia.
#8
samwise
Jan 01, 2004 13:24:04 Or stick with a proper Greyhawk deity like Norebo. If you are the more vindictive type of thief you could go with Kurell. If you are the more happy go lucky type, Rudd or Olidamarra.
Ptooey on the Generic deities. Double Ptooey!
#9
zombiegleemax
Jan 01, 2004 15:11:04 Hmm... not so sure I share your sentiments, Sam. From the Ashes did a pretty good job of shoe-horning (if that's the term you want to use) the Seldarine into GH. For instance things like the Moonarch of Sehanine or Flameflower by Highfolk, right down to the olves who are mentioned having the moonarch of Sehanine in their eyes.

Hardly surprising though, as Sargent literally wrote the book on Corellon. ;)

Stuart
#10
zombiegleemax
Jan 01, 2004 15:11:16 Hmm... not so sure I share your sentiments, Sam. From the Ashes did a pretty good job of shoe-horning (if that's the term you want to use) the Seldarine into GH. For instance things like the Moonarch of Sehanine or Flameflower by Highfolk, right down to the olves who are mentioned having the moonarch of Sehanine in their eyes.

Hardly surprising though, as Sargent literally wrote the book on Corellon. ;)

Stuart
#11
zombiegleemax
Jan 01, 2004 15:40:09 It's an interesting question actually - are there any real Gygaxian non-human deities? The non-human deities in D&DG were written by Jim Ward and the ones in UA by Roger Moore.

Who did the non-humans worship in the original Lake Geneva campaign? And if it was the "ordinary", I mean human, pantheons why are they set out as being Flan, Suloise or Oeridian?
#12
qstor
Jan 07, 2004 11:45:08 Interesting point, none of the Non human dieties had write ups before Rodger Moore did them in Dragon.

Beory and Pelor weren't in the orginal Greyhawk pantheon at first either. Gygax did the original gods in Dragon too, but left out Pelor and Beory.

Mike
#13
qstor
Jan 07, 2004 11:45:38 Interesting point, none of the Non human dieties had write ups before Rodger Moore did them in Dragon.

Beory and Pelor weren't in the orginal Greyhawk pantheon at first either. Gygax did the original gods in Dragon too, but left out Pelor and Beory.

Mike
#14
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 12:10:50 Going back to the material for 2e AD&D, you'll note that Carl Sargent wrote Monstrous Mythology at around the same time he wrote From the Ashes, this fact in and of itself is enough reason for me to accept all the gods in that book as potential Greyhawk deities, especially since no Greyhawk product has ever really touched on the non-human gods much. There are quite a few blatant comparisons to be made between MM gods and Greyhawk gods as well, which lends more credit to the idea of using the MM gods in Greyhawk.

Granted, some of the gods are just too weird or goofy to use, so I pick and choose (I ignore most of the sylvan gods with unpronounceable celtic sounding names wholesale, for example) and do plenty of homebrewing on them before tossing them into my Greyhawk game.

Back to the orignal question though, yes Corellon is viable Greyhawk god. You'll notice though that Greyhawk has never made a huge deal out of the "elves hate orcs" stereotype (Celene sits idly by while an agressive nation of orcs grows next door, for example), so you might want to downplay that aspect of the religion.
#15
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 14:17:29
Originally posted by qstor
Beory and Pelor weren't in the orginal Greyhawk pantheon at first either. Gygax did the original gods in Dragon too, but left out Pelor and Beory.

Mike

You could well be correct. There were no Dieties in the folio and neither are listed in the '83 boxed set.

So where did Beory and Pelor come from?
#16
cwslyclgh
Jan 07, 2004 14:33:22
You could well be correct. There were no Dieties in the folio and neither are listed in the '83 boxed set.

they are on the table of greater gods on page 63 of the guide in the '83 boxed set.
#17
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 14:35:07
Originally posted by Sardan
You could well be correct. There were no Dieties in the folio and neither are listed in the '83 boxed set.

So where did Beory and Pelor come from?

I don't have the folio handy, but both are in the '83 box set.
I don't think either have a detailed write up, but they're both on the list of gods.
Scott
#18
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 14:42:48 Good point - I missed the table went straight to the write-ups.:embarrass

So were they "original" Greyhawk or not??
#19
Argon
Jan 07, 2004 23:33:13 Well my take on the gods is simple as well as complicated. Corellion may be the gods true name but a sect of humans took to the worship of Pelor a human sun god. Or in the case of the Suel god Lendor who thought the Suel gods into being may actually also be the Baklunish god of Istus.

While only the gods know of another gods true identity, it is quite possibly for one god to be known by different names in different regions or amongst different races.
#20
Argon
Jan 07, 2004 23:33:18 Well my take on the gods is simple as well as complicated. Corellion may be the gods true name but a sect of humans took to the worship of Pelor a human sun god. Or in the case of the Suel god Lendor who thought the Suel gods into being may actually also be the Baklunish god of Istus.

While only the gods know of another gods true identity, it is quite possibly for one god to be known by different names in different regions or amongst different races.
#21
Argon
Jan 07, 2004 23:33:23 Dam double posts!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 31, 2003 14:06:27	I just got the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer before starying a LG campaign and I wanted to make an Elf who worshipped Corellon Larethian. I figured he'd be in there due to the PHB using Greyhawk as its primary setting. SO, I went to the deities chapter and looked him up... and found zip. So, is Corellon part of the Greyhawk pantheon, or does some other deity take his place? Thanks a bunch
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 31, 2003 14:13:54	Hey. Yes, Corellon is part of the Greyhawk pantheon. His presence in the PHB makes him part of the core pantheon, and he is a viable deity for LGH too. He was not described in the LGG most likely for reasons of space -- although we might check with the authors or editor on that explanation.
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 31, 2003 15:33:40	Originally posted by CannonFodder2244 I just got the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer before starying a LG campaign and I wanted to make an Elf who worshipped Corellon Larethian. I figured he'd be in there due to the PHB using Greyhawk as its primary setting. SO, I went to the deities chapter and looked him up... and found zip. So, is Corellon part of the Greyhawk pantheon, or does some other deity take his place? Thanks a bunch You can find Corellon Larethian mentioned in the following Living Greyhawk products. LGG - Pg# 19,183,188 LGJ#0 - 12 LGJ#2 - 31 LGJ#3 - 16
#4 samwise Dec 31, 2003 18:25:39	Corellon is a foul interloper. The true creator of the Olve is Ehlonna. Fie on Corellon, Lord of Generic Elves!
#5 zombiegleemax Dec 31, 2003 18:41:57	Ehlonna? Guess it could be a funny twist to a campaign to have her being the gawdess of the olves, actually its almost a worthy enough idea to throw on one of the other boards so we could have the all time flame fest between Eh "pry my smoking bong from my cold dead hands hippy" lonna and the elf fan boys who think Corellon "I mutilate orc men" Larethion is the true creator.
#6 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2004 2:01:25	Umm... isn't Ehlonna the goddess of natural beauty and harmony? My character isn't so big on those things. He likes the woods... for a vacation... but he wouldn't live there. He'd rather be in city, where you can actually get things done. He's a rogue who would rather charm a nun out of her habit than dwell among the trees in a sylvan glade and all that jazz. He's a thoroughly modern medieval fantasy character.
#7 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2004 12:35:33	Given that description, your character may prefer Erevan Ilesere to Corellon Larethian. Ereven is the patron of Mischief, Change, & Rogues. He is included in the LGH Deities PDF, ver. 1.3. His holy symbol is a "nova star with asymmetrical rays" and his "weapon of the deity" a +1 shock short sword. Descriptions of him include 1e's Unearted Arcana; an old Dragon Magazine issue (from which the UA information derived); 2e's Monstrous (sp?) Mythology (the blue covered one by Carl Sargent); and at least one 2e FR product -- I think it was called "Demihuman Deities." Paz y Justicia.
#8 samwise Jan 01, 2004 13:24:04	Or stick with a proper Greyhawk deity like Norebo. If you are the more vindictive type of thief you could go with Kurell. If you are the more happy go lucky type, Rudd or Olidamarra. Ptooey on the Generic deities. Double Ptooey!
#9 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2004 15:11:04	Hmm... not so sure I share your sentiments, Sam. From the Ashes did a pretty good job of shoe-horning (if that's the term you want to use) the Seldarine into GH. For instance things like the Moonarch of Sehanine or Flameflower by Highfolk, right down to the olves who are mentioned having the moonarch of Sehanine in their eyes. Hardly surprising though, as Sargent literally wrote the book on Corellon. ;) Stuart
#10 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2004 15:11:16	Hmm... not so sure I share your sentiments, Sam. From the Ashes did a pretty good job of shoe-horning (if that's the term you want to use) the Seldarine into GH. For instance things like the Moonarch of Sehanine or Flameflower by Highfolk, right down to the olves who are mentioned having the moonarch of Sehanine in their eyes. Hardly surprising though, as Sargent literally wrote the book on Corellon. ;) Stuart
#11 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2004 15:40:09	It's an interesting question actually - are there any real Gygaxian non-human deities? The non-human deities in D&DG were written by Jim Ward and the ones in UA by Roger Moore. Who did the non-humans worship in the original Lake Geneva campaign? And if it was the "ordinary", I mean human, pantheons why are they set out as being Flan, Suloise or Oeridian?
#12 qstor Jan 07, 2004 11:45:08	Interesting point, none of the Non human dieties had write ups before Rodger Moore did them in Dragon. Beory and Pelor weren't in the orginal Greyhawk pantheon at first either. Gygax did the original gods in Dragon too, but left out Pelor and Beory. Mike
#13 qstor Jan 07, 2004 11:45:38	Interesting point, none of the Non human dieties had write ups before Rodger Moore did them in Dragon. Beory and Pelor weren't in the orginal Greyhawk pantheon at first either. Gygax did the original gods in Dragon too, but left out Pelor and Beory. Mike
#14 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 12:10:50	Going back to the material for 2e AD&D, you'll note that Carl Sargent wrote Monstrous Mythology at around the same time he wrote From the Ashes, this fact in and of itself is enough reason for me to accept all the gods in that book as potential Greyhawk deities, especially since no Greyhawk product has ever really touched on the non-human gods much. There are quite a few blatant comparisons to be made between MM gods and Greyhawk gods as well, which lends more credit to the idea of using the MM gods in Greyhawk. Granted, some of the gods are just too weird or goofy to use, so I pick and choose (I ignore most of the sylvan gods with unpronounceable celtic sounding names wholesale, for example) and do plenty of homebrewing on them before tossing them into my Greyhawk game. Back to the orignal question though, yes Corellon is viable Greyhawk god. You'll notice though that Greyhawk has never made a huge deal out of the "elves hate orcs" stereotype (Celene sits idly by while an agressive nation of orcs grows next door, for example), so you might want to downplay that aspect of the religion.
#15 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 14:17:29	Originally posted by qstor Beory and Pelor weren't in the orginal Greyhawk pantheon at first either. Gygax did the original gods in Dragon too, but left out Pelor and Beory. Mike You could well be correct. There were no Dieties in the folio and neither are listed in the '83 boxed set. So where did Beory and Pelor come from?
#16 cwslyclgh Jan 07, 2004 14:33:22	You could well be correct. There were no Dieties in the folio and neither are listed in the '83 boxed set. they are on the table of greater gods on page 63 of the guide in the '83 boxed set.
#17 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 14:35:07	Originally posted by Sardan You could well be correct. There were no Dieties in the folio and neither are listed in the '83 boxed set. So where did Beory and Pelor come from? I don't have the folio handy, but both are in the '83 box set. I don't think either have a detailed write up, but they're both on the list of gods. Scott
#18 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 14:42:48	Good point - I missed the table went straight to the write-ups.:embarrass So were they "original" Greyhawk or not??
#19 Argon Jan 07, 2004 23:33:13	Well my take on the gods is simple as well as complicated. Corellion may be the gods true name but a sect of humans took to the worship of Pelor a human sun god. Or in the case of the Suel god Lendor who thought the Suel gods into being may actually also be the Baklunish god of Istus. While only the gods know of another gods true identity, it is quite possibly for one god to be known by different names in different regions or amongst different races.
#20 Argon Jan 07, 2004 23:33:18	Well my take on the gods is simple as well as complicated. Corellion may be the gods true name but a sect of humans took to the worship of Pelor a human sun god. Or in the case of the Suel god Lendor who thought the Suel gods into being may actually also be the Baklunish god of Istus. While only the gods know of another gods true identity, it is quite possibly for one god to be known by different names in different regions or amongst different races.
#21 Argon Jan 07, 2004 23:33:23	Dam double posts!