Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Charles_Phipps Jan 01, 2004 19:58:27	Basically I wonder if the "one step alignment" rule from FR should be available in Krynn. Let Black Robes be neutral and publically proclaim Nuitari's way of no restrictions on magic while being somewhat more sympathetic with White Robes secretly having a wicked heart (especially appropriate for elves whom might wish to avoid being branded evil) The origin of this conflict is my current game being discussed here.... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2218903#post2218903 After all the Orders of Sorcery are also religions to some certain extent
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2004 20:29:09	Yes it is a relgion to an extent. However it is much more defined and switching alignments, even briefly can result in a color change. Alignment however is much more of a grey area. Bieng good dosen't mean you always to the right thing, but instead 9 times out of ten they will do the right thing. The same goes for evil (well more like the opposite, 9 times out of 10 they'll do the wicked thing). Netural just means that you have no inclinatoin and will do whatever you feel like at the time.
#3 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 02, 2004 2:33:35	Originally posted by Charles Phipps White Robes secretly having a wicked heart If you have a wicked heart, you're definately evil=Black Robe. If you have a wicked heart, how on Krynn can you become a White Robe? Having a wicked heart is even worse than having wicked thoughts or doing wicked actions. Wicked heart = evil = Black Robes. The Gods of Magic will know when you switch alignment. Unless you switch robes, they will draw their favor from you.
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 02, 2004 7:57:46	Well, since the Test is meant to work out which Order you end up in, a neutral mage could become a black robe, if they acted particularly badly in their Test. It would be unlikely, if you were playing it at all well. If someone was keeping secrets about how they really felt, then their Test would probably reveal this. Equally, someone going for the black robes would have no way of knowing that a white robe secretly had a wicked heart, and would just be guessing. Why would a white robe be confiding in a black robe about wanting to carelessly fireball ewveryone they've ever met? How would a black robe have sympathy? They understood the white robe's desire to kill? That's not a neutral thing, it's two evil people discussing how they are. Or have I missed the point?
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 02, 2004 9:08:57	Originally posted by William Coburn Netural just means that you have no inclinatoin and will do whatever you feel like at the time. Not really. Being neutral means that you will strive to uphold balance in a place, ensuring that neither good nor evil becomes too strong. Not that you'll "do whatever you feel like at the time."
#6 Dragonhelm Jan 02, 2004 9:11:13	The Orders of High Sorcery are pretty rigidly defined where alignment is concerned. The Test will determine which of the three orders the mage belongs in. Sometimes wizards switch orders (ala Raistlin). In Dragonlance, one's moral alignment (good, neutral, and evil) is highly important in regards to the gods. The moral alignment is what defines the gods, whether they be gods of light, neutrality, or darkness. The hearts of mortals follow along these lines as well. Personally, I would have clerics have the same moral alignment as their deity, rather than abide by standard one-step rule. For example, I could see Paladine having LG, NG, and possibly CG clerics, rather than LG, NG, and LN. Wizards must also follow the moral alignment of the god, although in this case, there is no concern with the law-chaos alignment axis. In short, let one's moral alignment axis determine which order of robes he is in the WoHS.
#7 ferratus Jan 02, 2004 11:04:52	For the colour of their robes, remember that wizards are not bound to wear those robes all the time. Think of it as an official uniform. If one was a Russian military operative in the united States for example, he wouldn't be dressed to the nines in his military uniform. Dalamar was discovered because people noticed he was casting pretty black magic. I guess the analagous situation would be if the Jedi Order noticed you using force lightning.
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 02, 2004 11:45:12	The particular order is not always a clear cut one. Usually the test will direct a person to the order that he/she is most suited to. If someone is willing to do anything and everything to pass his test, then chances are they probably should take the Black. Sometimes, the color that a mage takes is beyond their control. But sometimes, it is decided purely upon the person's own personal decisions. I once had a Silvanesti Black Robe (rather a former Silvanesti). The reasons for him to take the Black was not a matter of a dark and twisted heart. He took the Black because his desire for magic and knowledge was great enough that he was willing to sacrifice his connection with his people and homeland in order to learn that which had been forbidden during his education. The character was by far more Lawful than he was evil. In fact, more times than not, he served the side of good during the campaign. While I know this may sound oxy-moronic, but just because someone's alignment is evil, it does not mean that they are necessarily villainous. For example, someone who is lawful evil could very well follow the letter of the law and be more than willing to manipulate it to their own ends. After all, we don't all want to burn all lawyers at the stake. Okay, maybe that was a bad example. :D Correlanthias
#9 Charles_Phipps Jan 02, 2004 12:30:35	Correnthias, its actually the subject of the thread linked to. The question is though whether or not the Test can be fooled or a person can choose to portray themselves as good when in fact they aren't. Again really a LE Silvastani or Qualinesti elf who wants political power at all costs CANNOT take the Red or Black Robes and survive politically He might thus act evil only when it was in accordance with his plans
#10 zombiegleemax Jan 02, 2004 12:39:24	The thing is the Test is a true test in every sense of the word. Fooling the Test is epsecially hard since most people don't even know they're taking a Test. A Test is made to peel off the layers of a person and expose their true soul. Even the strongest of wills are ultimately broken by the Test of High Sorcery.
#11 drachasor Jan 02, 2004 14:47:19	Originally posted by pddisc Why would a white robe be confiding in a black robe about wanting to carelessly fireball ewveryone they've ever met? One comment on this: Any wizard that did this would be branded a renegade. The WoHS were specifically formed to stop this sort of behavior and how it causes a hatred of magic and magic-users. People that can't control themselves are neutralized (feeblemind?) or killed. It is one thing to take a side in a war...but another to go around blasting random villagers. The WoHS allow the former, but not the later. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As for the test in general....consider the test to have been crafted by wizards that can look deeply into the mind and heart of the taker. They know *exactly* what buttons to push to cause someone to reveal their true selves and wether they can be responsible with magic (and wether they value magic extremely highly). As you could guess, with any standard test-taker, such mind reading will be no problem for the Orders. With high level renegades joining....it potentially *could* be a different story (but still unlikely). Even if you did manage to fool the test...your actions thereafter will have to continue to fool people, otherwise you'll *have* to switch robes. Evil White Robes aren't allowed. If you manage to always act good by 'faking' it...well...eventually you'll become so used to it you'll be good. -Drachasor
#12 zombiegleemax Jan 03, 2004 7:47:35	One comment on this: Any wizard that did this would be branded a renegade. The WoHS were specifically formed to stop this sort of behavior and how it causes a hatred of magic and magic-users. People that can't control themselves are neutralized (feeblemind?) or killed. It is one thing to take a side in a war...but another to go around blasting random villagers. The WoHS allow the former, but not the later. That's not the point I was making. It would only be if they actually *did* the fireballing that they would be feebleminded or 'reeducated' or whatever (mindrape, my favourite spell). If they refrained, they still have the urge to, but aren't acting on it. The question is, if all that they do is good, does that make them good?
#13 drachasor Jan 03, 2004 13:30:25	Originally posted by pddisc That's not the point I was making. It would only be if they actually *did* the fireballing that they would be feebleminded or 'reeducated' or whatever (mindrape, my favourite spell). If they refrained, they still have the urge to, but aren't acting on it. The question is, if all that they do is good, does that make them good? Yes, it does. I think even in D&D terms it does. They are controlling their baser impulses...their inner demons. Some have worse demons than others, but if you control them and only do good then you are good. Even if you slip up a little, you can still be good. -Drachasor