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outsider turning

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
catland93
Jan 04, 2004 11:15:29 Can I turn/rebuke planar creatures like tiefling, aasimar,githzerai... using the "outsider turning" feat?
#2
factol_rhys_dup
Jan 04, 2004 14:40:34 Githzerai, I'd say definitely not. Clerics turn exemplar, beings that are actually formed of alignment and belief. This includes fiends, celestials, slaadi, modrons, and rilmani. Githzerai are just another mortal race that happens to live on the Outer Planes rather than the Prime. They can be sent back to whatever plane they are from with a banishment spell, though. Tieflings and Aasimar are tougher, because they are related to exemplar, specifically fiends and celestials, respectively. All the same, though, they're really just "planes-charged" mortals, just flesh-and-blood cutters like the rest of us, and so I'd say they can't be turned, either.

I think "exemplar" is a subtype for creatures in the PSCS that planewalker.com is putting out, and if it's not it should be. For those who want planar turning but don't want to bother reading into planescape cosmology and theories, most often Outsiders who have alignment subtypes are exemplars, like a Balor is an Outsider [Evil, Chaotic].
#3
MephitJames
Jan 04, 2004 15:29:42 I'd say that most outsiders wiith an alignment subtype are exemplars, things like tieflings and aasimar are too weakly composed of planar energy to be turned (they're listed as native outsiders; they're just outsiders because of where they happen to call kip). Also things like bodaks, genies, and the illustrious mephits are extraplanar (a little stronger connection than a native outsider's, but still not exemplar material). However, some little sods like vargouilles and formians would fall under exemplar in this system.

I for one would limit "exemplars" to archons, guardinals, eladrin, aasimon, slaadi, rilmani, modrons, inevitables (I guess...), baatezu, yugoloths, ghereleths, and tanar'ri. These are the classic "planeborn" of 2e, but then there are boderline examples of einhari, asuras, etc. I'm waiting until planewalker clarifies things before I make any hard calls in my campaign.
#4
zombiegleemax
Jan 05, 2004 0:55:03 i have always limited them as follows:
LG: archons
NG: Gardinials
CG: eladrin
CN: Slaadi
CE: tanaari
NE: Yugoloths
LE: Baatezu
LN: Modrons

TN: Rilmani

you could almost consider elementals to be "exemplars" of their planes, but thats jsut a little weird for me
#5
MephitJames
Jan 05, 2004 9:56:03 elementals are different than exemplars in my book, since exemplars are described as beings made of pure belief. In fact the Outsider Turning feat is specifically designed for outer planar creatures only. We inner planars are a little bit tougher, berk.
#6
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 05, 2004 14:31:57 *rolls eyes and mutters* "It's sad to watch some mortal try and turn a greater fiend. Seriously, I had some berk from Toril try and banish me 'in the name of Selune'."

*more rolling of eyes*

"I'm still trying to figure out if they knew that I was a fetching example of a greater Yugoloth, or if they thought I was some sort of lycanthrope. I assure you there's no resemblance between my own lithe little figure and some hulking, disheveled mortal werewolf or jackelwere. Their ignorance galls me."

*sneer*

"I simply had a few of my tieflings politely escort them out to the street. And when I say politely escort I mean punch them in the mouth and hurl them down three flights of stairs."

*sneer again*

"It's just a silly concept, trying to turn me or any other fiend like some shambling zombie. I think I'm beginning to understand how the Dusties felt when that confused cleric of Cuthbert or something like that appeared through a portal into the Mortuary some months ago and dusted some zombies before getting ever so frustrated by a vampire factor of the faction. And just between you and me, that factor was, and still is, on my payroll."

"Sad, silly mortals.":D
#7
catland93
Jan 05, 2004 16:30:22 Then i asked myself what is the utility of the "improved turn resistence" for the planar races?
#8
MephitJames
Jan 07, 2004 10:30:48
Originally posted by CATLAND93
Then i asked myself what is the utility of the "improved turn resistence" for the planar races?

OoC: I think that's a feat intended for monsters. There aren't any PC races that would be considered exemplars by most players. As Shemeska pointed out, though, plenty of NPCs could benefit from an extra bit of resistence from cocky PCs. Also, a player with an exemplar character created a la Savage Species could get this feat, much like undead "races" from that book are encouraged to take precautions against turning.

IC: Well done Shemeska. If you ever need some more god-sheep penned I'd be only too glad. I can put up with preachy factioneers for a little bit, but I've no tolerance for those soap-box sods. If you ever get tired of half-breed tiefling help, my contract's up for a new employer.
#9
factol_rhys_dup
Jan 07, 2004 16:47:13 I'm the worst of both, James. A tiefling preachy factioneer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 catland93 Jan 04, 2004 11:15:29	Can I turn/rebuke planar creatures like tiefling, aasimar,githzerai... using the "outsider turning" feat?
#2 factol_rhys_dup Jan 04, 2004 14:40:34	Githzerai, I'd say definitely not. Clerics turn exemplar, beings that are actually formed of alignment and belief. This includes fiends, celestials, slaadi, modrons, and rilmani. Githzerai are just another mortal race that happens to live on the Outer Planes rather than the Prime. They can be sent back to whatever plane they are from with a banishment spell, though. Tieflings and Aasimar are tougher, because they are related to exemplar, specifically fiends and celestials, respectively. All the same, though, they're really just "planes-charged" mortals, just flesh-and-blood cutters like the rest of us, and so I'd say they can't be turned, either. I think "exemplar" is a subtype for creatures in the PSCS that planewalker.com is putting out, and if it's not it should be. For those who want planar turning but don't want to bother reading into planescape cosmology and theories, most often Outsiders who have alignment subtypes are exemplars, like a Balor is an Outsider [Evil, Chaotic].
#3 MephitJames Jan 04, 2004 15:29:42	I'd say that most outsiders wiith an alignment subtype are exemplars, things like tieflings and aasimar are too weakly composed of planar energy to be turned (they're listed as native outsiders; they're just outsiders because of where they happen to call kip). Also things like bodaks, genies, and the illustrious mephits are extraplanar (a little stronger connection than a native outsider's, but still not exemplar material). However, some little sods like vargouilles and formians would fall under exemplar in this system. I for one would limit "exemplars" to archons, guardinals, eladrin, aasimon, slaadi, rilmani, modrons, inevitables (I guess...), baatezu, yugoloths, ghereleths, and tanar'ri. These are the classic "planeborn" of 2e, but then there are boderline examples of einhari, asuras, etc. I'm waiting until planewalker clarifies things before I make any hard calls in my campaign.
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 05, 2004 0:55:03	i have always limited them as follows: LG: archons NG: Gardinials CG: eladrin CN: Slaadi CE: tanaari NE: Yugoloths LE: Baatezu LN: Modrons TN: Rilmani you could almost consider elementals to be "exemplars" of their planes, but thats jsut a little weird for me
#5 MephitJames Jan 05, 2004 9:56:03	elementals are different than exemplars in my book, since exemplars are described as beings made of pure belief. In fact the Outsider Turning feat is specifically designed for outer planar creatures only. We inner planars are a little bit tougher, berk.
#6 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 05, 2004 14:31:57	rolls eyes and mutters "It's sad to watch some mortal try and turn a greater fiend. Seriously, I had some berk from Toril try and banish me 'in the name of Selune'." more rolling of eyes "I'm still trying to figure out if they knew that I was a fetching example of a greater Yugoloth, or if they thought I was some sort of lycanthrope. I assure you there's no resemblance between my own lithe little figure and some hulking, disheveled mortal werewolf or jackelwere. Their ignorance galls me." sneer "I simply had a few of my tieflings politely escort them out to the street. And when I say politely escort I mean punch them in the mouth and hurl them down three flights of stairs." sneer again "It's just a silly concept, trying to turn me or any other fiend like some shambling zombie. I think I'm beginning to understand how the Dusties felt when that confused cleric of Cuthbert or something like that appeared through a portal into the Mortuary some months ago and dusted some zombies before getting ever so frustrated by a vampire factor of the faction. And just between you and me, that factor was, and still is, on my payroll." "Sad, silly mortals.":D
#7 catland93 Jan 05, 2004 16:30:22	Then i asked myself what is the utility of the "improved turn resistence" for the planar races?
#8 MephitJames Jan 07, 2004 10:30:48	Originally posted by CATLAND93 Then i asked myself what is the utility of the "improved turn resistence" for the planar races? OoC: I think that's a feat intended for monsters. There aren't any PC races that would be considered exemplars by most players. As Shemeska pointed out, though, plenty of NPCs could benefit from an extra bit of resistence from cocky PCs. Also, a player with an exemplar character created a la Savage Species could get this feat, much like undead "races" from that book are encouraged to take precautions against turning. IC: Well done Shemeska. If you ever need some more god-sheep penned I'd be only too glad. I can put up with preachy factioneers for a little bit, but I've no tolerance for those soap-box sods. If you ever get tired of half-breed tiefling help, my contract's up for a new employer.
#9 factol_rhys_dup Jan 07, 2004 16:47:13	I'm the worst of both, James. A tiefling preachy factioneer.