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Deities and their multiple alignments

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
stsparks72
Jan 04, 2004 23:17:10 I have a question concerning Deities with multiple alignments such as St. Cuthbert, Wee Jas, and Fharlanghn. The multiple alignments of those deities can be found in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer or the Official Living Greyhawk Deities Download.

For a quick example lets use Fharlanghn who is listed as the following N (NG).

My question concerns the alignment in parenthesis. Page 164 of the Greyhawk Gazetteer tells the following:

"The listed alignment is the god's primary alignment and is the alignment that a cleric should use to determine his own alignment. Any parenthetical alignment listed after the main alignment is the most common alignment variance that the god shows, and most clerics are of the god's main alignment or the secondary alignment."

That is the only place I have been able to find any answer concerning the multiple aligned deities.

Here is my question: Can a player (or DM) assume that a deity fullfills both alignments for purposes of determining good abilities? More specifically, could Fhalanghn grant a player exalted feats which can be granted by good deities?

IMO, I believe that NG would be an aspect of Fharlanghn that some clerics or patrons observe. Therefore he could grant those special patrons exalted feats, even though this is generally not permited.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jan 05, 2004 2:23:22 Could be two schools of thought here.

1. The parenthetical alignment represents another aspect of the deity which is aligned as indicated (in your example NG). Is this case I would say yes to Exalted Feats and all the rest because for all intents and purposes the deity could be considered NG because that is the aspect being worshipped.

However....

2. The parenthetical alignment simply indicates another strong/popular alignment that worships the deity because some of the deities teaching fit nicely with the second alignment.

For example St. Cuthbert LN (LG): as he represents wisdom, honesty and truth (amongst other domains) a good number of LG worshippers revere him.

So the question might come down to how you interpret the phrase "... most common alignment variant the gods shows...".

If you consider a LG cleric worshipping St. Cuthbert, they would probably want access to all goodly things like Exalted feats and that doesn't seem unreasonable. I'm inclined to say option one - which means yes to your question.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 05, 2004 3:16:05 This is a rules question. Hence, it should be asked here:

http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=1000&forumid=42
#4
stsparks72
Jan 05, 2004 3:16:56
Originally posted by Morphious
If you consider a LG cleric worshipping St. Cuthbert, they would probably want access to all goodly things like Exalted feats and that doesn't seem unreasonable. I'm inclined to say option one - which means yes to your question.

I agree with you 100%, especially after researching the following statement from the Greyhawk Gazetteer:

"Any parenthetical alignment listed after the main alignment is the most common alignment variance that the god shows"

I looked up the description of the word "show" in the websters dictionary.

"To put within sight; to point out; to explain; to put on display."

According to that description it makes sense to believe that Farlanghn represents two alignments, Neutral and Neutral Good, although Neutral is the primary.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jan 05, 2004 11:58:49 I think Morphious' explaination #2 of the Paranthetical alignment is correct, i.e. it is the alignment of a significant amount of that Gods worshippers. Therefore, they should not get the benefits of worshipping a "good" God. They are good people choosing to worship a nuetral God whose portfolio they like, so they don't get any Exalted Feats. You want those, find a Good god to worship. This should be the case unless the diety has a clearly defined, "dual Aspect" such as Pholtus.

I am, however, extremely non-canonical on matters devine. I have eliminated/combined all but 36 of the Greyhawk Gods, (one of each Alignment and Status) I also allow Druids to turn Were Creatures, so my ideas probably won't sit well w/ most campaigns.
#6
samwise
Jan 05, 2004 13:55:26 The real problem is the changes to the original alignments in 3E/3.5, and how that affects what the various deities should have access too.
Place Cuthbert back on Arcadia where he belongs, and the granting of Exalted feats (lame as they are) does not become a problem to decide.
#7
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 3:46:03 Ugh. Did anyone follow the link? Did anyone even read the LGG very closely? The parenthetical alignment is not the alignment of the deity or even a tendency of the deity (like in previous editions). It is the preferred alignment of worshippers and it also indicates what sort of energy that god channels. Most follows of the Cudgel tend to be LG. Most followers of Wee Jas tend to be LE. St. Cuthbert's clerics channel positive energy. Wee Jas' channel negative energy. Etc...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 stsparks72 Jan 04, 2004 23:17:10	I have a question concerning Deities with multiple alignments such as St. Cuthbert, Wee Jas, and Fharlanghn. The multiple alignments of those deities can be found in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer or the Official Living Greyhawk Deities Download. For a quick example lets use Fharlanghn who is listed as the following N (NG). My question concerns the alignment in parenthesis. Page 164 of the Greyhawk Gazetteer tells the following: "The listed alignment is the god's primary alignment and is the alignment that a cleric should use to determine his own alignment. Any parenthetical alignment listed after the main alignment is the most common alignment variance that the god shows, and most clerics are of the god's main alignment or the secondary alignment." That is the only place I have been able to find any answer concerning the multiple aligned deities. Here is my question: Can a player (or DM) assume that a deity fullfills both alignments for purposes of determining good abilities? More specifically, could Fhalanghn grant a player exalted feats which can be granted by good deities? IMO, I believe that NG would be an aspect of Fharlanghn that some clerics or patrons observe. Therefore he could grant those special patrons exalted feats, even though this is generally not permited.
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 05, 2004 2:23:22	Could be two schools of thought here. 1. The parenthetical alignment represents another aspect of the deity which is aligned as indicated (in your example NG). Is this case I would say yes to Exalted Feats and all the rest because for all intents and purposes the deity could be considered NG because that is the aspect being worshipped. However.... 2. The parenthetical alignment simply indicates another strong/popular alignment that worships the deity because some of the deities teaching fit nicely with the second alignment. For example St. Cuthbert LN (LG): as he represents wisdom, honesty and truth (amongst other domains) a good number of LG worshippers revere him. So the question might come down to how you interpret the phrase "... most common alignment variant the gods shows...". If you consider a LG cleric worshipping St. Cuthbert, they would probably want access to all goodly things like Exalted feats and that doesn't seem unreasonable. I'm inclined to say option one - which means yes to your question.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 05, 2004 3:16:05	This is a rules question. Hence, it should be asked here: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=1000&forumid=42
#4 stsparks72 Jan 05, 2004 3:16:56	Originally posted by Morphious If you consider a LG cleric worshipping St. Cuthbert, they would probably want access to all goodly things like Exalted feats and that doesn't seem unreasonable. I'm inclined to say option one - which means yes to your question. I agree with you 100%, especially after researching the following statement from the Greyhawk Gazetteer: "Any parenthetical alignment listed after the main alignment is the most common alignment variance that the god shows" I looked up the description of the word "show" in the websters dictionary. "To put within sight; to point out; to explain; to put on display." According to that description it makes sense to believe that Farlanghn represents two alignments, Neutral and Neutral Good, although Neutral is the primary.
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 05, 2004 11:58:49	I think Morphious' explaination #2 of the Paranthetical alignment is correct, i.e. it is the alignment of a significant amount of that Gods worshippers. Therefore, they should not get the benefits of worshipping a "good" God. They are good people choosing to worship a nuetral God whose portfolio they like, so they don't get any Exalted Feats. You want those, find a Good god to worship. This should be the case unless the diety has a clearly defined, "dual Aspect" such as Pholtus. I am, however, extremely non-canonical on matters devine. I have eliminated/combined all but 36 of the Greyhawk Gods, (one of each Alignment and Status) I also allow Druids to turn Were Creatures, so my ideas probably won't sit well w/ most campaigns.
#6 samwise Jan 05, 2004 13:55:26	The real problem is the changes to the original alignments in 3E/3.5, and how that affects what the various deities should have access too. Place Cuthbert back on Arcadia where he belongs, and the granting of Exalted feats (lame as they are) does not become a problem to decide.
#7 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 3:46:03	Ugh. Did anyone follow the link? Did anyone even read the LGG very closely? The parenthetical alignment is not the alignment of the deity or even a tendency of the deity (like in previous editions). It is the preferred alignment of worshippers and it also indicates what sort of energy that god channels. Most follows of the Cudgel tend to be LG. Most followers of Wee Jas tend to be LE. St. Cuthbert's clerics channel positive energy. Wee Jas' channel negative energy. Etc...