Clerics - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Clerics

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 05, 2004 20:36:44 Could/would a cleric of solinari,lunitari or nuitari exist?
#2
darthsylver
Jan 05, 2004 21:22:12 This may get a few fireballs shot my way, but here goes.

In 2E DLA the gods of magic could have clerics, or more precisely messengers. These messengers could only use spells from the same schools of magic as their wizard counterparts.

Now in the ToTL clerics of the gods of magic must be at least a 5th level wizard, and inherently a WoHS, before becoming a messenger of the gods of magic. This was a requirement of all three gods of magic mind you.

Now in the DLCS, the gods of magic IMO have apparently decided to concentrate all their efforts on rebuilding the WoHS as an organization and have decided not to grant divine spells and therefore have no clerics in this new age.

As such this is a way that there could be multiclassed Wizard\Clerics provided that the cleric portion is devoted to a god of magic.
#3
cam_banks
Jan 06, 2004 6:19:56 The current and official answer is no. The Moon Gods deliberately removed themselves from the pantheon of gods and do not provide clerics with power. Their focus is entirely on arcane magic.

DLA was a 1st edition product, not 2nd edition, and many were confused by the fact that the three moon gods were included in the section that covered clerics and their gods. This was more for completeness - studying the entries shows that these gods provide only the magic of High Sorcery, not clerical magic.

Tales of the Lance further confused things by requiring any cleric of the moon gods to first be a mage. This made things difficult and arduous as 2nd edition multiclassing wasn't like 3rd edition - humans had to dual-class, and demihumans such as elves couldn't start multiclassing later (those decisions had to be made at 1st level).

With the update of the setting to 3rd edition and the consolidation of all materials that discuss the relationship of the moon gods to their servants, Margaret and Sovereign Press have ruled that no clerics of the moon gods exist or have existed, and that previous statements to the contrary were in error.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
darthsylver
Jan 06, 2004 7:48:26 Again with the arbitrary brush.

Rather than saying that any former clerics for the gods of magic have been granted the ability to exchange cleric levels for wizard levels or that all clerics of for the gods of magic have been removed from krynn, now they never existed in the first place and previous editors were just plain wrong.

Rather than come up with a plausible explaination for the confusion, it never happened.

Sounds kinda egotistical to me.

Rant, rant, rant.......

Just ignore the random babbling kender going through convulsions in the corner. :D :D
#5
cam_banks
Jan 06, 2004 8:11:27 I don't think it's egotistical at all to try to reconcile the game setting with the novel setting, which in part is what the 3rd edition DLCS attempts to do. The intent all along, or so I am led to believe, is that the moon gods don't have clerics because they aren't part of the pantheon per se - they deliberately removed themselves in order to focus on arcane magic, and this has always been part of the history of Krynn.

On the other hand, none of this forces you to abandon the idea of moon good clerics. The Dragonlance Nexus has a selection of moon disciple options, and for a quick and easy fix just give the 3 moon gods these domains and let people play clerics of magic:

Solinari - Good, Magic, Protection
Lunitari - Luck, Magic, Trickery
Nuitari - Death, Evil, Magic

And Bob uth Bobdar is your uncle.

Cheers,
Cam
#6
zombiegleemax
Jan 06, 2004 14:41:23 Thanks for the quick responses! I was asking cause one of my players is thinking about playing a mystic theurge(not that i know exactly what it is...a mage/cleric sorta thing as far as I understand....borrowing tomb and blood tomorrow though) in our coming DL campaign. I saw from the thread about mage clerics that you can't do a mage/cleric so I thought about a moon god cleric/mage.
#7
darthsylver
Jan 06, 2004 23:25:08 Yes Cam I understand that the gods of magic have withdrawn and are "now" concentrating solely on "arcane" magic rather than divine and no longer have clerics.

The gods of magic (as far as I read it) have never withdrawn from granting divine spells to mortals, they simply did not partake in any of the politics of the pantheon. Until the DLCS that is.

I just did not like or agree with saying that these gods have never had clerics.

And yes I understand that if I DM, I can allow them to grant spells and such. I have my messenger class on the Nexus which goes into this.

Although I use the following:

Solinari - Good, Law, Magic
Lunitari - Law, Magic, Trickery
Nuitari - Evil, Law, Magic

If you could check out the class and give me some feedback I would appreciate it. It is a new version just in case you saw the old one. I would even like your comments on my new WoHS class.

Thanks Cam.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 11:31:48 I think giving them the good/evil domains are a bit much, as they are definatly concerned more with the Law and maintaining magic.

I would go with
Solinari - Law, Magic, Protection
Lunitari - Luck, Magic, Trickery
Nuitari - Law, Death, Magic

and Cam yer mistaken, Bob uth Bobdar is MY uncle =P
#9
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 15:19:00 Uh...who is bob uth bobdar?
#10
cam_banks
Jan 07, 2004 15:39:31
Originally posted by Tasslehoff the Great
Uh...who is bob uth bobdar?

He's my mythical Solamnic character I use in examples.

Cheers,
Cam
#11
darthsylver
Jan 07, 2004 15:42:23 Hey Cam did you check out my Messenger and WoHS classes?
#12
cam_banks
Jan 07, 2004 15:50:21
Originally posted by darthsylver
Hey Cam did you check out my Messenger and WoHS classes?

Yep. However, as a freelancer I'm probably going to have to refrain from making too many comments or criticisms since it might be something of a conflict of interests. ;)

Cheers,
Cam
#13
Dragonhelm
Jan 07, 2004 18:22:13
Originally posted by darthsylver
I just did not like or agree with saying that these gods have never had clerics.

Understandable. There are a number of fans who would rather that the moon gods had clerics still. Heck, imagine poor Trapian (from DLE series of modules?) whose mother was a cleric of Solinari. Whoops!

Both Cam and I have worked up a Moon Disciple prestige class, which you can find on the Nexus. Other people have submitted similar concepts.

The basic gist is that a Moon Disciple is one who is basically an "arcane cleric" of one of the gods of magic. They get a domain, but all their magic is arcane in nature still, and recorded in a spell book. The version I created was very much based on the model of clerics of the moon gods as presented in TotL.
#14
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 22:01:01 Well, I was paging through my Book of Exaulted Deeds(haven't read it yet, still have to finish DLCS), and I saw the Prestige class Exaulted Arcanist. Basically, it's a PrC for sorcerors who have their powers from celestial ancestry. They get to choose a few healing type spells(I think it was), but they're cast as arcane spells. I think that, slightly modified, it would make a great Moon Disciple.

Question: If I simply changed the name and messed around with the requirements, and possibly a few abilities(but only minor changes), would it be okay to submit this to the Nexus, or is it violating the OGL?
#15
cam_banks
Jan 07, 2004 22:09:10
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007

Question: If I simply changed the name and messed around with the requirements, and possibly a few abilities(but only minor changes), would it be okay to submit this to the Nexus, or is it violating the OGL?

It would be better if you wrote a short article on how to use the Exalted Arcanist in a Dragonlance campaign, rather than reprint the class' stats with minor changes.

Cheers,
Cam
#16
Dragonhelm
Jan 07, 2004 22:44:17
Originally posted by Cam Banks
It would be better if you wrote a short article on how to use the Exalted Arcanist in a Dragonlance campaign, rather than reprint the class' stats with minor changes.

Cheers,
Cam

Agreed with Cam. You don't want to copy all of that, as it would be copyright violation.

I really like the idea of articles on how to use some product in a DL campaign. For example, my Bards of Branchala article references Monte Cook's alternate bard, but reprints nothing from his write-up.

Likewise, I'd love it if someone would write an article on how to use elements from the Draconomicon in DL.

Feel free to write up an article on how to use the Exalted Arcanist in Dragonlance, including whatever tweaks you would make. We'd be happy to post that on the Nexus.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 05, 2004 20:36:44	Could/would a cleric of solinari,lunitari or nuitari exist?
#2 darthsylver Jan 05, 2004 21:22:12	This may get a few fireballs shot my way, but here goes. In 2E DLA the gods of magic could have clerics, or more precisely messengers. These messengers could only use spells from the same schools of magic as their wizard counterparts. Now in the ToTL clerics of the gods of magic must be at least a 5th level wizard, and inherently a WoHS, before becoming a messenger of the gods of magic. This was a requirement of all three gods of magic mind you. Now in the DLCS, the gods of magic IMO have apparently decided to concentrate all their efforts on rebuilding the WoHS as an organization and have decided not to grant divine spells and therefore have no clerics in this new age. As such this is a way that there could be multiclassed Wizard\Clerics provided that the cleric portion is devoted to a god of magic.
#3 cam_banks Jan 06, 2004 6:19:56	The current and official answer is no. The Moon Gods deliberately removed themselves from the pantheon of gods and do not provide clerics with power. Their focus is entirely on arcane magic. DLA was a 1st edition product, not 2nd edition, and many were confused by the fact that the three moon gods were included in the section that covered clerics and their gods. This was more for completeness - studying the entries shows that these gods provide only the magic of High Sorcery, not clerical magic. Tales of the Lance further confused things by requiring any cleric of the moon gods to first be a mage. This made things difficult and arduous as 2nd edition multiclassing wasn't like 3rd edition - humans had to dual-class, and demihumans such as elves couldn't start multiclassing later (those decisions had to be made at 1st level). With the update of the setting to 3rd edition and the consolidation of all materials that discuss the relationship of the moon gods to their servants, Margaret and Sovereign Press have ruled that no clerics of the moon gods exist or have existed, and that previous statements to the contrary were in error. Cheers, Cam
#4 darthsylver Jan 06, 2004 7:48:26	Again with the arbitrary brush. Rather than saying that any former clerics for the gods of magic have been granted the ability to exchange cleric levels for wizard levels or that all clerics of for the gods of magic have been removed from krynn, now they never existed in the first place and previous editors were just plain wrong. Rather than come up with a plausible explaination for the confusion, it never happened. Sounds kinda egotistical to me. Rant, rant, rant....... Just ignore the random babbling kender going through convulsions in the corner. :D :D
#5 cam_banks Jan 06, 2004 8:11:27	I don't think it's egotistical at all to try to reconcile the game setting with the novel setting, which in part is what the 3rd edition DLCS attempts to do. The intent all along, or so I am led to believe, is that the moon gods don't have clerics because they aren't part of the pantheon per se - they deliberately removed themselves in order to focus on arcane magic, and this has always been part of the history of Krynn. On the other hand, none of this forces you to abandon the idea of moon good clerics. The Dragonlance Nexus has a selection of moon disciple options, and for a quick and easy fix just give the 3 moon gods these domains and let people play clerics of magic: Solinari - Good, Magic, Protection Lunitari - Luck, Magic, Trickery Nuitari - Death, Evil, Magic And Bob uth Bobdar is your uncle. Cheers, Cam
#6 zombiegleemax Jan 06, 2004 14:41:23	Thanks for the quick responses! I was asking cause one of my players is thinking about playing a mystic theurge(not that i know exactly what it is...a mage/cleric sorta thing as far as I understand....borrowing tomb and blood tomorrow though) in our coming DL campaign. I saw from the thread about mage clerics that you can't do a mage/cleric so I thought about a moon god cleric/mage.
#7 darthsylver Jan 06, 2004 23:25:08	Yes Cam I understand that the gods of magic have withdrawn and are "now" concentrating solely on "arcane" magic rather than divine and no longer have clerics. The gods of magic (as far as I read it) have never withdrawn from granting divine spells to mortals, they simply did not partake in any of the politics of the pantheon. Until the DLCS that is. I just did not like or agree with saying that these gods have never had clerics. And yes I understand that if I DM, I can allow them to grant spells and such. I have my messenger class on the Nexus which goes into this. Although I use the following: Solinari - Good, Law, Magic Lunitari - Law, Magic, Trickery Nuitari - Evil, Law, Magic If you could check out the class and give me some feedback I would appreciate it. It is a new version just in case you saw the old one. I would even like your comments on my new WoHS class. Thanks Cam.
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 11:31:48	I think giving them the good/evil domains are a bit much, as they are definatly concerned more with the Law and maintaining magic. I would go with Solinari - Law, Magic, Protection Lunitari - Luck, Magic, Trickery Nuitari - Law, Death, Magic and Cam yer mistaken, Bob uth Bobdar is MY uncle =P
#9 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 15:19:00	Uh...who is bob uth bobdar?
#10 cam_banks Jan 07, 2004 15:39:31	Originally posted by Tasslehoff the Great Uh...who is bob uth bobdar? He's my mythical Solamnic character I use in examples. Cheers, Cam
#11 darthsylver Jan 07, 2004 15:42:23	Hey Cam did you check out my Messenger and WoHS classes?
#12 cam_banks Jan 07, 2004 15:50:21	Originally posted by darthsylver Hey Cam did you check out my Messenger and WoHS classes? Yep. However, as a freelancer I'm probably going to have to refrain from making too many comments or criticisms since it might be something of a conflict of interests. ;) Cheers, Cam
#13 Dragonhelm Jan 07, 2004 18:22:13	Originally posted by darthsylver I just did not like or agree with saying that these gods have never had clerics. Understandable. There are a number of fans who would rather that the moon gods had clerics still. Heck, imagine poor Trapian (from DLE series of modules?) whose mother was a cleric of Solinari. Whoops! Both Cam and I have worked up a Moon Disciple prestige class, which you can find on the Nexus. Other people have submitted similar concepts. The basic gist is that a Moon Disciple is one who is basically an "arcane cleric" of one of the gods of magic. They get a domain, but all their magic is arcane in nature still, and recorded in a spell book. The version I created was very much based on the model of clerics of the moon gods as presented in TotL.
#14 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 22:01:01	Well, I was paging through my Book of Exaulted Deeds(haven't read it yet, still have to finish DLCS), and I saw the Prestige class Exaulted Arcanist. Basically, it's a PrC for sorcerors who have their powers from celestial ancestry. They get to choose a few healing type spells(I think it was), but they're cast as arcane spells. I think that, slightly modified, it would make a great Moon Disciple. Question: If I simply changed the name and messed around with the requirements, and possibly a few abilities(but only minor changes), would it be okay to submit this to the Nexus, or is it violating the OGL?
#15 cam_banks Jan 07, 2004 22:09:10	Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007 Question: If I simply changed the name and messed around with the requirements, and possibly a few abilities(but only minor changes), would it be okay to submit this to the Nexus, or is it violating the OGL? It would be better if you wrote a short article on how to use the Exalted Arcanist in a Dragonlance campaign, rather than reprint the class' stats with minor changes. Cheers, Cam
#16 Dragonhelm Jan 07, 2004 22:44:17	Originally posted by Cam Banks It would be better if you wrote a short article on how to use the Exalted Arcanist in a Dragonlance campaign, rather than reprint the class' stats with minor changes. Cheers, Cam Agreed with Cam. You don't want to copy all of that, as it would be copyright violation. I really like the idea of articles on how to use some product in a DL campaign. For example, my Bards of Branchala article references Monte Cook's alternate bard, but reprints nothing from his write-up. Likewise, I'd love it if someone would write an article on how to use elements from the Draconomicon in DL. Feel free to write up an article on how to use the Exalted Arcanist in Dragonlance, including whatever tweaks you would make. We'd be happy to post that on the Nexus.