First off, I have a Kender Wizard and a Human Sorceror.
Second, in my campaign, Sorcerors have to take the Test of High Sorcery too. In most cases for Sorcerors, they are given a choice to becoem a Wizard or stay as a Sorceror. If they stay a Sorceror, tthey become in title part of the WoHS, but cant take the PrC. But they do get some benefits, like Tower Resources and an Item of Power, but not as powerful as a normal WoHS would receive.
Third, when the Kender passed the Test, he decided not to take the WoHS PrC and thus became an honorary WoHS as well, with the same benefits that a Soreror would recieve.
My problem is that I cant figure out what i should give these two characters. What would be good to give a Kender Wizard (Evoker) and to a Human Sorceror.
And I dont want to give them something that will just run out of charges and then be useless. Somethign that can be useful.
Thanks
One of my favorite gifts for Kender is actually ripped from Forgotten Realms in Bottled "Fog of Fate". Its a bottle that when pulled will take the players SOMEWHERE in the world that they are needed and adventure bound to follow.
It basically allows the players to choose when and where adventures will occur but can't be used to circumvent them.
The Sorcerer I'd give an amulet of proof against wizardry....perhaps it gives an immunity to certain wizard spells (and only wizard)
That or a ring of Charisma for his main stat
For kender, travel bags of holding are always well loved. Perhaps a small figurine of wondrous power (a owl or cat or something perhaps)
'Honorary' members wouldn't get alot more than perhaps some scrolls if it were me..
As with other PRC classes that belong to organizations, it is up to the DM to decide if you must take the PRC in order to be a member of the organization.
In this case the DM has decided that you do not need to take the class in order to be a member. With WoHS in the stories they got an item by basically passing the test and becoming a member. So by this DM's decisions anyone who passes the test automatically becomes a member and therefore has earned the right to an item of power.
As for the sorcerer, a charisma increasing item would be a good choice.
But i have another question, should it matter if the PC just simply casts Identify to find out the item abilities? Or should they really try and figure it out without the spell
Originally posted by themind
Thanks for all of the suggestions so far, keep them coming.
But i have another question, should it matter if the PC just simply casts Identify to find out the item abilities? Or should they really try and figure it out without the spell
They should have to try to figure out what it does. Using the spell is cheating IMO.
also...what's more fun (and profitable) than questing for the lore of the item you were just given? ask your player this.
hope this helps
In 3.o Identify only identified the lowest ability of the item and so theorectically would not discover all the secrets of an item.
In 3.5 Identify has gotten more powerful and identifies all the powers of an item, except artifacts.
What you could do is give the character an item that has a specific name and say that it is an artifact (minor or major your choice) and therefore identify would not work on it.
Yes artifacts are rare. And according to most people, krynn is a low-magic world. So almost any magic item could be considered an artifact because of it's rarity. Especially in the current time, in light of the fact that many magical items were drained of their magic in order to power the failing magic of the fifth age. So I would say that any item that has a specific name, would be an artifact.
I mean Tasslehoff's Magic Mouse Ring could have been considered an artifact and all it did was a basic shapchange spell.
Sure, learning by trial and error might be fun; but I'd stamp it as irresponsible and ignorant use of magic. Something the Towers should oppose.
Besides, in theory learning and understanding a spell so you can cast it is still seen as challenging; so being able to cast identify can only be considered as an additional success on the mage's behalf.
Now, you can add additional abilities to that item in lieu of giving a character treasure. However, I'd still allow him to cast identify as many times as he wanted as soon as the item gained a new ability. Just don't allow him to use identify to know what abilities the item doesn't have yet. After all, he could only sense that it was a ring of feather falling when he was an apprentice who just passed the test... but when he becomes a more powerful magus he learns more about the item that was bequeathed to him.
Identify being a 1st level spell does not represent (or at least it should not) a high-level understanding of magic. There are other spells that are supposed to help learn of the item's powers at higher levels. Legend lore, Analyze Dweomer, and let us not forget that sometimes one would call outsiders in orer to glean information about an item.
With the new capabilities of the identify spell it almost makes these higher level spells obsolete in reference to magical items.
Take 3.5 identify back to 3.0 levels, and give the items 2 properties or more (so there will be some mystery about the items they can't solve).
And/Or have the items enchanted with various misleading spells, so Identify won't work properly. It'll be up to the character to figure out to circumvent these illusions. A good way to make sure they grow more as a wizard (and cheap for the Tower to do).
As for items...hmm. Perhaps the Kender would appreciate an item that gave bonuses to concentration checks. Also, something that allowed him to make minor visual/audual changes to his evocation spells on the fly might be nice. On the later, don't let them change the basic amount of light/sound released though. Otherwise, it is rather hard to tell what would be good for him, since we know so little about the character...even more true for the human.
-Drachasor
fun-loving kender who have the -4 to concentration checks would not be capable of truly dedicating themselves to anything and therefore would probably (and IMO would) die during the test.
Afflicted kender could be ssen as being dedicated to things, mostly (and again IMO) defending themselves. They do not suffer from the -4 to concentration checks and therefore would not need an item to overcome a penalty that does not exist.
Lets see if this link thing works
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141000
There isnt m8uch on the Sorceror yet, he hasnt joined us yet due to his work schedule, but hopefully he should be joining us in our next session next week
Originally posted by darthsylver
No offense to the kender as wizards by IMO only the afflicted would have any chance of surviving the test. fun-loving kender who have the -4 to concentration checks would not be capable of truly dedicating themselves to anything and therefore would probably (and IMO would) die during the test.
When it comes to the things that a heroic character can do, anything is possible. Whether or not it is probable, that is for the dice to decide. ;)
The test will basically do just that, test the character's magical abilities against a challenge of the appropriate challenge rating. The -4 to concentration checks will certainly make things more difficult, but it will not make it impossible. Especially if you consider that many humans will not have maxed our their concentration checks either.
Originally posted by darthsylver
No offense to the kender as wizards by IMO only the afflicted would have any chance of surviving the test.
fun-loving kender who have the -4 to concentration checks would not be capable of truly dedicating themselves to anything and therefore would probably (and IMO would) die during the test.
Afflicted kender could be ssen as being dedicated to things, mostly (and again IMO) defending themselves. They do not suffer from the -4 to concentration checks and therefore would not need an item to overcome a penalty that does not exist.
As the person before me commented....skill points and feats can make them quite capable.....even if not as good as the best of humans. And again, difficulty with something doesn't imply impossibility. It is just rarer (and Kender wizards *are* rare). As such, given proper effort and devotion, the WoHS might well give such a kender an item that would aid him in focusing. I'd additionally note that Kender can be *quite* imaginative, and this would aid them on the test with the proper intelligence to back it up.
-Drachasor
Originally posted by darthsylver
Which is why I used the word "probably," not "definitely."
Ahh, my mistake...my apologies.
Even so though, of all the Kender that desired to learn magic...all the ones that had enough dedication to actually gain enough power to take the test would be very small and exceptional in number. I would imagine that out of these you'd see no higher a fatality rate than from Humans or Elves...and maybe less. Since magic is much easier for these races, they don't have to have as much dedication and perseverence to become powerful enough to take the test....especially given how easily the average kender is distracted.
-Drachasor
It is very hard for kender especially to be dedicated to anything, except perhaps to their friends.
Being dedicated to magic would probably be a very hard concept for a kender (except perhaps afflicted) to understand much less dedicate oneself to.
Originally posted by darthsylver
No they just have to show a dedication, above all other things, to magic.
It is very hard for kender especially to be dedicated to anything, except perhaps to their friends.
Being dedicated to magic would probably be a very hard concept for a kender (except perhaps afflicted) to understand much less dedicate oneself to.
And my point was that a Kender that made it far enough to take the test has already shown a great deal of ability in this area. He's already learn how to shut out distractions very well...otherwise he simply wouldn't have had the focus and dediction to study wizardry this much....it's like studying physics...if you manage to get to a certain point, you've developed a great ability to focus on it and care about it. Humans and Elves simply don't have to try as hard, so they don't have to *care* as much. The more you sacrifice for something, the more you care about it, in general.
-Drachasor
Originally posted by lost_boy_84
well, what if a kender needed to become a wizard in order to save a friend? :P
Longest and most time-consuming way to save a friend ever.
It's not as if becoming a wizard takes a couple weeks in a tower, you know.
Cheers,
Cam
Say 1 out of the rest of the race. :D
O-kay maybe not that extreme but certainly 1 out of 100,000.
Originally posted by darthsylver
O-kay maybe not that extreme but certainly 1 out of 100,000.
You think there are more than 100,000 kender on Ansalon?
Cheers,
Cam
well, what if a kender needed to become a wizard in order to save a friend?
Longest and most time-consuming way to save a friend ever.
The kender could have seen the future and have years to become a wizard.
You think there are more than 100,000 kender on Ansalon?
No. Precisely my point. Wizard kender are rare.
Originally posted by ferratus
See my thread on "Magical Demographics" to see that kender, and kender wizards are more numerous than we might think.
Ok, so in the magical demographics If I understand this correctly you managed to whittle them down to this number: "93 wizards able to join the Order of High Sorcery."
So of the 93 how many pass the Test?
How many actually found mentors that would train them properly? (I very seriously doubt that the masters of wizarding schools would accept them as "teachable" students.)
Would kender have the money to pay for such training anyway?
How many of those kender wizards would dedicate their life and study magic and spellcasting for 10 or more years before reaching even first level?
And of course the biggest question, does the Conclave even allow them in the WoHS in the first place? (They most likely would, but it seems very rare time.)
You should know by now that I am the last person to put down kender wizards ;), but I think of the 93 there are still more factors to take into account that make them even more rare.
So I pair your 93 down to 30. :D Now that seems incredibly rare.
The other 93 either died in the test, or never achieved more than a slight dabbling, perhaps learning a few spells above 3rd in which they are renegades and neutralized or not high profile enough to catch anyone’s attention. (Although I think a kender holding a spellbook would catch anyone’s attention, lol.)
And it's not like every individual that "can" be a wizard MUST use the power or become consumed like Raistlin's mother. There diefinatley are some though and hopefully it is those kender that have passed the Test.
The DMG's population guidelines are useful and all, but tend to inflate the numbers just a little. They're perfect for Greyhawk or another world where magic is considerably more common, but I think any run of numbers that comes up with thousands and thousands of wizards runs contrary to what we know and understand about the utter rarity of those characters in Dragonlance.
Cheers,
Cam
Add that to the fact that I've cut down the number of kender wizards in half to what the other races get (taking into account the factors that Kip mentions), otherwise there should be 187. It is also keeping in mind the slight increase that afflicted kender give to the ranks of wizards.
Keep in mind as well, there will be about half that number of only 4th level (46), a quarter 8th level or lower (23) with the rest scattered among higher levels. I imagine there is only one kender wizard archmage in the entire continent (and in the inner conclave), which is what I think we want right? Half are apprentices, and a quarter are mages of middling power.
Dangerous to give someone statistics based on a set of assumptions? Perhaps, but I don't see the question of kender, or how many kender wizards there are without them. I would say 93 wizards is about the amount you should be expecting, unless you are deliberately cooking the books to bring back 2e. ;)
Oh, and the 6,000 wizards in the conclave... well that is a problem with the low prerequisites. ;) That said though, it isn't as bad as I thought. 6,000 is a tolerable number for the amount of wizards that can conceivably pass through the doors of the Tower of High Sorcery and take their test there.
Plus, we have to consider whether you want to have an archmage in the larger cities. I would think that we do, and many more archmage menaces to fight in adventures. For that, you need a feasible number of wizards that didn't make it up to that archmages' level of power.