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Death and The Mazes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 07, 2004 11:26:17 My wonderfully speculative question is what happens if a poor sod commits suicide within one of The Mazes. Are they unable to do so? Does the would heal to the minimum to keep them alive? Do they reawaken whole the next morning still inside? Perhaps their soul gets stuck within the maze? Perhaps they migrate out and the maze collapses?

There's of course no answer in canon to that, but I've considered it before. I always took to the idea that the maze's intended occupant was unable to die while still inside. Others who entered the maze and then died might then be stuck within the maze as well until allowed to escape by The Lady's whim, or until the maze collapsed when and if the original occupant was released or escaped. Dead fiends might remain discorporate and unable to flee back to their home planes to reform, and mortals might eventually form wandering petitioners or similar discorporate forms.

I'm curious what anyone else feels on the topic, and especially if you've had to handle the situation in a game.

*sits back to paint claws a soft shade of red and watch a bottled Farastu in a blender spin around and twitch*:D
#2
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 12:20:31 Death would be the easy way out, and since the old Factol of the Expansionist is still trapped in his maze after 1000 years, Its a sure bet that any wounds from an attempted suicide heal to prevent such an untimely demise.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 13:40:15 An interesting thought.

I would imagine that if someone does die in the Maze, that person's soul will easily escape and go to whatever plane, where he will become a petitioner. I doubt the Lady is interested in souls, as petitioners reawaken without any of their memories of their past lives.

I think it may actually be possible to commit suicide in a Maze. I'm sure the Lady doesn't care if you kill yourself or not, as long as you're no longer a threat. And in a Maze, you're no longer a threat.

Besides, even if a person didn't kill himself in a Maze, the sheer solitude and neverending attempts to find one's way out can drive a person completely barmy. I bet if you went into a lot of older Mazes, you'll find the inhabitants still very much alive, but reduced to a state of complete insanity.
#4
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 07, 2004 14:12:16 Oh that 1000 years of solitude did a number on Timlin's sanity. He spend his days looking at a self repairing statue of The Lady in the center of the maze, alternately pleading for forgiveness and cursing Her name while hacking it apart with his sword.

But true to his faction philosophy of self improvement, betterment of body and spirit, and growth, he kept himself in shape and cleaned the floor with the thieves from several factions that eventually came to not free him but to steal his sword. It was only a +1, he was an 18th level or so fighter. They didn't stand a chance and he managed to get the details and the portal key from them to the single exit in the maze. He got out quite happily and bailed Sigil for the closest exit, regardless of what plane it was. After 1000 years stuck in a maze, he seemed none too keen on remaining in Sigil and tempting The Lady's wrath.
#5
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 07, 2004 14:13:52 Only problem with allowing a mazed person to die and then migrate to an outer plane to become a petitioner is that it could open up the chance for them to be ressurected by a follower. That would be too easy to escape. *shrug*
#6
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 14:54:38
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Only problem with allowing a mazed person to die and then migrate to an outer plane to become a petitioner is that it could open up the chance for them to be ressurected by a follower. That would be too easy to escape. *shrug*

I think would agree with sword of Geddon here, for the above reason mainly.
#7
ashramry
Jan 07, 2004 15:23:24 i aggree that death and escape to plane of alignment would be too much of a loophole way out, but i dont think that there would be any ban on just death. if i recall correctly, PS:torment had several dead bodies in the mazes, as well as the nameless one's body itself (though his escape is cant really be called that in a sense) plus, although never meant to be anything more than evocative, much of the artwork associated with PS and the mazes has skeletons in the background. as to what happened to these poor sods souls...perhaps the lady uses them to shape the substance of the mazes themsleves....perhaps she makes them into dabus. one can never really tell.
For game purposes though it should be assumed that if someone dies in the mazes they will never be heard from again.
In that way suicide is still an option (after all the lady isnt without mercy....she always has a way out for those she has mazed), but most strong willed berks who have got themsleves mazed in the first place likely would never consider it.
ashy
#8
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 15:24:44
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Only problem with allowing a mazed person to die and then migrate to an outer plane to become a petitioner is that it could open up the chance for them to be ressurected by a follower. That would be too easy to escape. *shrug*

True, but the followers would have to be aware of the death and anything short of true resurrection requires the body to be present for the raising. I don't know that many people are willing to go into a maze for the purposes of finding a corpse. I don't know that a god would be willing to send a follower into it, either.

Besides, if people can escape or be set free anyway, why couldn't they kill themselves and migrate to the Outer Plane? All things considered, this seems like adding to the punishment.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 16:28:22 How about this: Every time a character intentionally inflicts pain on him/herself to a degree that he/she would die, they are teleported to a random point in the maze and healed to a level where their wounds are no longer dangerous. This is punishment, after all, and the Mazed *should* become frustrated with recognizing they can't even kill themselves to escape.
#10
factol_rhys_dup
Jan 07, 2004 17:48:20 I'm not so sure about the nature of the mazes. Unlike some of my colleagues, I've never been there. But one thing that would be maddening is the knowledge that an exit portal does exist, if only you could find it... This might keep some sods from penning themselves, simply the vain hope that they might find the way out.
#11
factol_rhys_dup
Jan 07, 2004 17:51:04 A joke at the expense of the Bleakers:

A Bleaker in the mazes: "Well, it must be pointless to try and escape. Oh well, it's a good place to do some thinking in solitude. I can sit down and contemplate the futility of life which led me here. Oh no! A positive thought! This place really is punishment!"
#12
sildatorak
Jan 07, 2004 20:01:14 Hey now! Just because we think that life is pointless doesn't mean that we can't have positive thoughts, too. It's just that they're so futile that I want to curl up in the dark and cry.
#13
zombiegleemax
Jan 07, 2004 23:58:21 here here! Some of us are positively cheerful. Manic even. Some of the time anyways. Their is a reason for the names The Bleak Cable, and The Grim Retreat of course.
[OOC: I wonder what would happen if enough Bleakers rolled the 1 and got all Manic at the same time. Maybe it would be the happy retreat. Free Pina Coladas on the house!]
#14
zombiegleemax
Jan 08, 2004 1:10:12 Hmm, I wonder if theres actually a much larger version of one of the Lady's Mazes out there. Like a Demiplane of Maze or something along those lines.
...............................................................

Ok, back on topic.

I stick by my earlier comment. Think about it, if you could die within the mazes, then what would be the point? Why wouldn't the lady just kill the sod that opposes her, than bother creating a maze?

Unless.....The mazes are coccoons which slowly transform people trapped inside into Dabus.............Hmmm, why do I feel I am being watched all of a sudden?
#15
zombiegleemax
Jan 08, 2004 4:08:44 The way I see it and run it in my games is that its a groundhog day type thing.

you can do what you like but eventually you will sleep, fall unconcious or die, then you wake up in the maze again with the same surroundings in the same condition you were in as the first moment you got there.

To get out her serenity needs to let you out or you need find exactly what the sequence of events that are needed to get out yourself, or someone can come get you.

thats the way I do it. many dont get out but one or two have.

the way I play it is the character sheet is held by me and once every two weeks out of session a player can petition for a character to be released. when the character goes into a maze they get a map of the area with clues as to how to get out.

They figure out the clues they get their character back. they cant figure it out.... they dont..... simple.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 07, 2004 11:26:17	My wonderfully speculative question is what happens if a poor sod commits suicide within one of The Mazes. Are they unable to do so? Does the would heal to the minimum to keep them alive? Do they reawaken whole the next morning still inside? Perhaps their soul gets stuck within the maze? Perhaps they migrate out and the maze collapses? There's of course no answer in canon to that, but I've considered it before. I always took to the idea that the maze's intended occupant was unable to die while still inside. Others who entered the maze and then died might then be stuck within the maze as well until allowed to escape by The Lady's whim, or until the maze collapsed when and if the original occupant was released or escaped. Dead fiends might remain discorporate and unable to flee back to their home planes to reform, and mortals might eventually form wandering petitioners or similar discorporate forms. I'm curious what anyone else feels on the topic, and especially if you've had to handle the situation in a game. sits back to paint claws a soft shade of red and watch a bottled Farastu in a blender spin around and twitch:D
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 12:20:31	Death would be the easy way out, and since the old Factol of the Expansionist is still trapped in his maze after 1000 years, Its a sure bet that any wounds from an attempted suicide heal to prevent such an untimely demise.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 13:40:15	An interesting thought. I would imagine that if someone does die in the Maze, that person's soul will easily escape and go to whatever plane, where he will become a petitioner. I doubt the Lady is interested in souls, as petitioners reawaken without any of their memories of their past lives. I think it may actually be possible to commit suicide in a Maze. I'm sure the Lady doesn't care if you kill yourself or not, as long as you're no longer a threat. And in a Maze, you're no longer a threat. Besides, even if a person didn't kill himself in a Maze, the sheer solitude and neverending attempts to find one's way out can drive a person completely barmy. I bet if you went into a lot of older Mazes, you'll find the inhabitants still very much alive, but reduced to a state of complete insanity.
#4 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 07, 2004 14:12:16	Oh that 1000 years of solitude did a number on Timlin's sanity. He spend his days looking at a self repairing statue of The Lady in the center of the maze, alternately pleading for forgiveness and cursing Her name while hacking it apart with his sword. But true to his faction philosophy of self improvement, betterment of body and spirit, and growth, he kept himself in shape and cleaned the floor with the thieves from several factions that eventually came to not free him but to steal his sword. It was only a +1, he was an 18th level or so fighter. They didn't stand a chance and he managed to get the details and the portal key from them to the single exit in the maze. He got out quite happily and bailed Sigil for the closest exit, regardless of what plane it was. After 1000 years stuck in a maze, he seemed none too keen on remaining in Sigil and tempting The Lady's wrath.
#5 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 07, 2004 14:13:52	Only problem with allowing a mazed person to die and then migrate to an outer plane to become a petitioner is that it could open up the chance for them to be ressurected by a follower. That would be too easy to escape. shrug
#6 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 14:54:38	Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder Only problem with allowing a mazed person to die and then migrate to an outer plane to become a petitioner is that it could open up the chance for them to be ressurected by a follower. That would be too easy to escape. shrug I think would agree with sword of Geddon here, for the above reason mainly.
#7 ashramry Jan 07, 2004 15:23:24	i aggree that death and escape to plane of alignment would be too much of a loophole way out, but i dont think that there would be any ban on just death. if i recall correctly, PS:torment had several dead bodies in the mazes, as well as the nameless one's body itself (though his escape is cant really be called that in a sense) plus, although never meant to be anything more than evocative, much of the artwork associated with PS and the mazes has skeletons in the background. as to what happened to these poor sods souls...perhaps the lady uses them to shape the substance of the mazes themsleves....perhaps she makes them into dabus. one can never really tell. For game purposes though it should be assumed that if someone dies in the mazes they will never be heard from again. In that way suicide is still an option (after all the lady isnt without mercy....she always has a way out for those she has mazed), but most strong willed berks who have got themsleves mazed in the first place likely would never consider it. ashy
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 15:24:44	Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder Only problem with allowing a mazed person to die and then migrate to an outer plane to become a petitioner is that it could open up the chance for them to be ressurected by a follower. That would be too easy to escape. shrug True, but the followers would have to be aware of the death and anything short of true resurrection requires the body to be present for the raising. I don't know that many people are willing to go into a maze for the purposes of finding a corpse. I don't know that a god would be willing to send a follower into it, either. Besides, if people can escape or be set free anyway, why couldn't they kill themselves and migrate to the Outer Plane? All things considered, this seems like adding to the punishment.
#9 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 16:28:22	How about this: Every time a character intentionally inflicts pain on him/herself to a degree that he/she would die, they are teleported to a random point in the maze and healed to a level where their wounds are no longer dangerous. This is punishment, after all, and the Mazed should become frustrated with recognizing they can't even kill themselves to escape.
#10 factol_rhys_dup Jan 07, 2004 17:48:20	I'm not so sure about the nature of the mazes. Unlike some of my colleagues, I've never been there. But one thing that would be maddening is the knowledge that an exit portal does exist, if only you could find it... This might keep some sods from penning themselves, simply the vain hope that they might find the way out.
#11 factol_rhys_dup Jan 07, 2004 17:51:04	A joke at the expense of the Bleakers: A Bleaker in the mazes: "Well, it must be pointless to try and escape. Oh well, it's a good place to do some thinking in solitude. I can sit down and contemplate the futility of life which led me here. Oh no! A positive thought! This place really is punishment!"
#12 sildatorak Jan 07, 2004 20:01:14	Hey now! Just because we think that life is pointless doesn't mean that we can't have positive thoughts, too. It's just that they're so futile that I want to curl up in the dark and cry.
#13 zombiegleemax Jan 07, 2004 23:58:21	here here! Some of us are positively cheerful. Manic even. Some of the time anyways. Their is a reason for the names The Bleak Cable, and The Grim Retreat of course. [OOC: I wonder what would happen if enough Bleakers rolled the 1 and got all Manic at the same time. Maybe it would be the happy retreat. Free Pina Coladas on the house!]
#14 zombiegleemax Jan 08, 2004 1:10:12	Hmm, I wonder if theres actually a much larger version of one of the Lady's Mazes out there. Like a Demiplane of Maze or something along those lines. ............................................................... Ok, back on topic. I stick by my earlier comment. Think about it, if you could die within the mazes, then what would be the point? Why wouldn't the lady just kill the sod that opposes her, than bother creating a maze? Unless.....The mazes are coccoons which slowly transform people trapped inside into Dabus.............Hmmm, why do I feel I am being watched all of a sudden?
#15 zombiegleemax Jan 08, 2004 4:08:44	The way I see it and run it in my games is that its a groundhog day type thing. you can do what you like but eventually you will sleep, fall unconcious or die, then you wake up in the maze again with the same surroundings in the same condition you were in as the first moment you got there. To get out her serenity needs to let you out or you need find exactly what the sequence of events that are needed to get out yourself, or someone can come get you. thats the way I do it. many dont get out but one or two have. the way I play it is the character sheet is held by me and once every two weeks out of session a player can petition for a character to be released. when the character goes into a maze they get a map of the area with clues as to how to get out. They figure out the clues they get their character back. they cant figure it out.... they dont..... simple.