Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 10, 2004 14:23:34	Hey all, Just looking for the Stats on the DL gods. What are the devine ranks, hp etc????? Thanks
#2 ferratus Jan 10, 2004 14:36:16	The Dragonlance gods have not been covered in Deities and Demigods format. If you have Dieties and Demigods, you're going to have to do it yourself. The stats may show up in the Holy Orders of the Stars Sourcebook slated for next year, but it will probably concentrate more on the churches and religions themselves rather than the gods. After all, the dieties of Krynn aren't known for casually walking around among mortals. Granted, they've been doing it a lot more in the last half-century, and they've appearantly became much less exalted as a result of the disrupton of the War of Souls.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 10, 2004 21:56:29	So they havnt been covered in any books...oh well. Does anyone out there have any home-brew for the stats of the DL gods? :D Thanks for the info.
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 12, 2004 0:30:17	Stats would still be good for running period pieces though and also frames of reference. I'm sure long time fans would get a kick out of a Deities and Demigods conversion of Avatars for individuals like Fizban or Dougan. I'd certainly love to see it. Stats of deities can be used for any number of reasons in a good campaign.
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 12, 2004 4:14:57	I'm much more interested in stats for Valthonis. Paladines new mortal form. Are they in the Age of Mortals book? (I can't find it in any stores, so I'll have to wait a while longer.)
#6 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 12, 2004 6:22:38	Originally posted by Mjordnir I'm much more interested in stats for Valthonis. Paladines new mortal form. Are they in the Age of Mortals book? No. Back to the deities... The first step when designing stats for a deity is picking a divine rank. Here's what I have thought of: Gods of Light Paladine 20 Mishakal 18 Solinari 11 Gods of Balance Gilean 20 Reorx 18 Lunitari 11 Gods of Darkness Takhisis 20 Sargonnas 18 Nuitari 11 I'm currently working on the rest of the deities. Will post when done.
#7 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 12, 2004 6:52:30	Okay, first version of "Divine Ranks for the Intermediate Deities of the Krynnish Pantheon." Suggestions welcome. Light Majere 15 Kiri-Jolith 14 Habbakuk 13 Branchala 12 Balance Chislev 15 Zivilyn 14 Shinare 13 Sirrion 12 Darkness Morgion 15 Chemosh 14 Zeboim 13 Hiddukel 12
#8 bohica Jan 12, 2004 8:41:01	White Sorcerer: I think everything you have laid out so far seems reasonable. Keep the ball rolling! Bohica
#9 talinthas Jan 12, 2004 11:47:47	as far as i'm concerned the stats for any god the party is facing should be "STRONGER THAN YOU". The Gods should be able to will you out of existance. They're gods, after all.
#10 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 12, 2004 12:41:34	Originally posted by talinthas as far as i'm concerned the stats for any god the party is facing should be "STRONGER THAN YOU". The Gods should be able to will you out of existance. They're gods, after all. The main reason I want stats for gods is so that I can see if, say, Solinari could beat the living crap out of Nuitari. And besides, making stats is always fun. Now, back to them stats... After I've decided on the divine ranks, I'll decide class levels. I've decided to not use the 20 outsider hit dice deities usually have, and to give each deity 40 class levels. I present to you the deities of light! (Note: No deity has been given cleric levels. The deities receive divine power from within themselves.) Only classes from the PHB, DMG, DLCS, and the mariner from AoM are used at this point. Gods of Light Branchala: Bard20/Duelist10/Rogue10 Habbakuk: Ranger10/Knight of the Crown10/Mariner20 Kiri-Jolith: Fighter17/Crown1/Mystic2/Knight of the Sword10/Legendary Tactician10 Majere: Monk20/Mystic20 Mishakal: Mystic20/Hierophant5/Sorcerer15 Paladine: Noble4/Crown1/Mystic2/Sword3/Knight of the Rose10/Sorcerer20 Solinari: Wizard20/Wizard of High Sorcery10/Archmage5/Solamnic Auxuliary Mage5 There.
#11 carteeg Jan 12, 2004 16:57:56	Solinari can defeat Nuitari in a fight, but he needs to use a subtle trick he's used in the past. Basically, when the three gods came together to be the gods of magic, a bond was formed between them. In later years, when Solinari was bored, he figured out that when he was drinking large amounts of alcohol, he can use the bond to funnel the drunken effects over to either of the other two. Trying it out on Lunitari he discovered it to be a mistake: [1] when she dropped her moon down to Krynn, she was low enough for a large number of gnomes to grab the Greygem from her using only a 15' ladder (the 5' extension was hung up in committee), and [2] she kicked the living $#** out of him later when the hangover passed. However, he later on discovered that using the technique on Nuitari was just plain damn fun. In fact one of Fistandantilus' statues of him in Skullcap was made with him posing during one of these drunken times (3 chances to guess which statue and the last 2 don't count). Seeing Nuitari as a lush is hysterical, however when he gets smashed enough to take out a cue and starts to play pool with the other planets and stars, things get nerve-wracking (the story of Takhisis moving Krynn is a lie; the proof is that the last words from Nuitari to Dalamar right before Chaos' defeat was "My turn to break!" and thus the stars were rearranged). At that point even Tasslehoff could physically beat Nuitari up. In fact that scene would have been published if Dragon's of Summer's Flame was expanded into a trilogy, but unfortunately it will have to remain in the realm of speculation and me making most of this up.
#12 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 12, 2004 18:18:43	I thought I'd wait a while before posting the levels for the Gods of Balance, but oh what the Abyss. (Note: Most of these are just plain weird due to the problem of not knowing what the heck to give these deities.) Gods of Balance Chislev: Mystic20/Nomad Shaman10/Ranger10 Gilean: Bard20/Loremaster10/Mystic10 Lunitari: Wizard20/Wizard of High Sorcery10/Archmage5/Mystic5 Reorx: Fighter20/Rogue20 Shinare: Rogue20/Horizon Walker10/Mystic10 Sirrion: Sorcerer20/Fighter20 Zivilyn: Noble20/Master Ambassador10/Mystic10
#13 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 12, 2004 18:28:23	Oh, what the Abyss, I'll just post the evil ones too. Gods of Darkness Chemosh: Rogue20/Assassin10/Mystic10 Hiddukel: Rogue20/Bard20 Morgion: Mystic20/Sorcerer20 Nuitari: Wizard20/Wizard of High Sorcery10/Archmage5/Mystic5 Sargonnas: Fighter20/Blackguard10/Legendary Tactician10 Takhisis: Mystic10/Righteous Zealot10/Noble10/Sorcerer8* Zeboim: Barbarian20/Mariner20 *Takhisis has less class levels than the other deities due to her +2 level adjustment for being an irda Mostly when I give mystic levels, they're there just because I couldn't think of anything better.
#14 zombiegleemax Jan 12, 2004 19:31:12	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer Okay, first version of "Divine Ranks for the Intermediate Deities of the Krynnish Pantheon." Suggestions welcome. Light Majere 15 Kiri-Jolith 14 Habbakuk 13 Branchala 12 Balance Zivilyn 15 Sirrion 14 Chislev 13 Shinare 12 Darkness Chemosh 15 Morgion 14 Zeboim 13 Hiddukel 12 I would say that Chislev ranking is perhaps a lilttle low, due to the size of her portfolio's I would say 14 instead of 13. Chemosh's ranking is perhaps a little high, due to his relativly small number of worshippers, and his portfolio is also small = undead, not death in particular. I would say 12 or 13. well thats my two cents for now. Keep up the good work.
#15 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 12, 2004 19:38:07	Tweaked the non-good pantheons. Chislev 15 Zivilyn 14 Shinare 13 Sirrion 12 Morgion 15 Chemosh 14 There.
#16 zombiegleemax Jan 12, 2004 21:21:36	We've actually got plans for this sort of information in a future product. Good things come to those who wait! Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc.
#17 daedavias_dup Jan 12, 2004 22:48:16	Originally posted by jechambers We've actually got plans for this sort of information in a future product. Good things come to those who wait! Jamie Chambers Sovereign Press, Inc. ...I think I just a small joygasm...
#18 zombiegleemax Jan 13, 2004 21:54:51	I say either change the moon gods' mystic levels to either Sorcerer or Loremaster. And maybe change Zeboim's barbarian levels and Habbakuk's Ranger levels to druid(although, Zeboim's Barbarian levels *DO* make a lot of sense.)
#19 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 13, 2004 22:03:22	Most nonsense making class levels (such as Mishakal's sorcerer levels and the Moon Gods' mystic levels) will propably be changed when I gain access to more DL prestige classes. I've also decided that no deity (with the exception of the Moon Gods) use focused magic. So I'll propably be changing Chislev's druid levels to mystic levels. Just a weird decision of mine.
#20 raggart_knug Jan 15, 2004 0:36:34	FYI, Dragonlance Adventures has stats for all of the deities; they're 2nd Ed stats, but they could be useful for comparison purposes: Paladine: Cleric 40/Wizard 40 Majere: Monk 53 Kiri-Jolith: Fighter 29/ Cleric 29 Mishakal: Cleric 25 Habbakuk: Druid 27 Branchala: Fighter 35/Bard 35 Solinari: Wizard 40 Gilean: Cleric 40/Wizard 40 Sirrion: Fighter 35/Cleric 35 Reorx: Fighter 37/Cleric 37 Chislev: Druid 34 Zivilyn: Cleric 35/Monk 35 Shinare: Cleric 25/Fighter 25 Lunitari: Wizard 40 Takhisis: Cleric 40/Wizard 40 Sargonnas: Cleric 30 Morgion: Druid 37 Chemosh: Cleric 29/Wizard 29 Zeboim: Druid 30/Cleric 30 Hiddukel: Cleric 25/Wizard 25 Nuitari: Wizard 40
#21 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 19, 2004 9:52:45	Update on t3h Gods of Krynn. Those that were changed are marked with an *. All deities have 20 outsider hit dice. Gods of Light Branchala: Bard 20/Duelist 10/Rogue 10 Habbakuk*: Ranger 15/Knight of the Crown 10/Mariner 15 Kiri-Jolith: Fighter 17/Knight of the Crown 1/Mystic 2/Knight of the Sword 10/Legendary Tactician 10 Majere Monk 20/Mystic 20 Mishakal: Mystic 20/Hierophant 5/Sorcerer 15 Paladine: Noble 4/Knight of the Crown 1/Mystic 2/Knight of the Sword 3/Knight of the Rose 10/Sorcerer 20 Solinari*: Abjurer 20/Wizard of High Sorcery 10/Archmage 5/Solamnic Auxuliary Mage 5 Gods of Balance Chislev*: Mystic 20/Nomadic Shaman (Forest) 10/Ranger 10 Gilean: Bard 20/Loremaster 10/Mystic 10 Lunitari*: Illusionist 20/Wizard of High Sorcery 10/Archmage 5/Loremaster 5 Reorx: Fighter 20/Rogue 20 Shinare: Rogue20/Horizon Walker 10/Mystic 10 Sirrion: Sorcerer 20/Fighter 20 Zivilyn*: Noble 20/Master Ambassador 10/Mystic 10 Gods of Darkness Chemosh: Rogue 20/Assassin 10/Mystic 10 Hiddukel: Rogue 20/Bard 20 Morgion*: Mystic15/Sorcerer15/Mystic Theurge10 Nuitari*: Necromancer 20/Wizard of High Sorcery 10/Archmage 5/War Mage 5 Sargonnas: Fighter 20/Blackguard 10/Legendary Tactician 10 Takhisis: Mystic 10/Righteous Zealot 10/Noble 10/Sorcerer 8/Level Adjustment +2 Zeboim Barbarian 20/Mariner 20
#22 darthsylver Jan 19, 2004 10:11:54	One thing I could never figure out was how could a god be a cleric. I mean all clerics have to have a patron deity who grants spells so how coulf a god be their own cleric?
#23 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 19, 2004 10:39:14	Originally posted by darthsylver One thing I could never figure out was how could a god be a cleric. I mean all clerics have to have a patron deity who grants spells so how coulf a god be their own cleric? Yeah. That's why I used the mystic class instead. Mostly cleric (and mystic) levels are used to fill blanks. Like, if a god of war already has 20 levels of fighter and nothing else really fits, give him cleric levels! I personally think that mystic levels work better for deities.
#24 zombiegleemax Jan 19, 2004 13:45:42	Raggart has sargas the Horned Lord as the lowest level of the dark gods, Preposterous!
#25 ferratus Jan 19, 2004 13:48:35	Originally posted by Hammerhand Raggart has sargas the Horned Lord as the lowest level of the dark gods, Preposterous! A lot of us have a hard time respecting Sargonnas after he was forced to give birth to Nuitari. ;)
#26 cam_banks Jan 19, 2004 13:55:03	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer I personally think that mystic levels work better for deities. The use of the cleric class doesn't necessarily mean the god worships himself. It's useful for when you want the deity to use some of the features and traits of the cleric class in a divine sense. Many of these features are not present in the mystic class, and indeed mystics have a slower spell progression than clerics. It would therefore be perfectly reasonable to give some deities cleric levels to represent the specific way in which their divine power manifests itself. Cheers, Cam
#27 The_White_Sorcerer Jan 19, 2004 14:15:26	Yeah, I know the justification for the cleric levels for deities, I just think mystic levels work better in Dragonlance. It makes them more focused (though mysticism is wild magic ;) ) on their special niche.
#28 cam_banks Jan 19, 2004 14:21:37	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer Yeah, I know the justification for the cleric levels for deities, I just think mystic levels work better in Dragonlance. It makes them more focused (though mysticism is wild magic ;) ) on their special niche. Actually, they'd be even more focused (both literally and mechanically) if they had levels in cleric instead. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the mystic, but it's the lesser of the two where deities are concerned. I think it's probably fairly unlikely that Krynn's deities would have levels in either mystic or sorcerer when they could have cleric or wizard. Cheers, Cam
#29 zombiegleemax Jan 20, 2004 5:10:02	Stats for the gods of Krynn already exist in book format. Although It may be 1st edition I think it is 2nd. Dragonlance Adventures possibly (it has been along time) but, as I remember it Paladine was a Fighter/Cleric/and possibly mage and was 30th level in all his classes (as seemed to be standard for Greater Gods) others were 25th in all classes (intermediate gods) etc. Hence part of the reason why in the original format PCs never got higher than 18th level (a power cap had been put in place) Raistlyn was a 22nd level renegade when we went into the abyss to usurp Takhisis.
#30 raggart_knug Jan 20, 2004 22:25:51	Originally posted by Hammerhand Raggart has sargas the Horned Lord as the lowest level of the dark gods, Preposterous! Don't blame me! Like I said, I was just quoting from the Dragonlance Adventures sourcebook. Kendernbabe, to answer your comment, check out my post above. ;)
#31 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 16:55:22	While I love the Mystic and Sorcerer classes, and prefer them to the exclusion of all other classes, I have to agree with Cam on the issue of deific spellcasting. They would be better served by taking levels in cleric and wizard rather than mystic and sorcerer simply because focused magic is god-granted magic and thus it makes sense for the gods themselves to use it. Sorcery and mysticism is too limiting for the gods, I think. A god-mystic knows only so much magic, while a god-cleric has access to the entire breadth of divine spells on command and can spontaneously cast whatever she wants whenever she wants. It should be one of the perks of being a god. :D Anyway, besides that, I think you're spot-on with the rest of the deities. One thing I would suggest when you get around to statting the gods is that while the 3 gods of magic have no clerics and grant no divine spells, they should still have 3 clerical domains that they have personal access to for spell-like abilities and domain-granted powers. Solinari should get Good, Law, and Magic. Lunitari should have Law, Magic, and Trickery. And Nuitari should recieve Evil, Law, and Magic. That should make them balanced. Anyway, I hope my comments helped a bit.
#32 Matthew_L._Martin Jan 21, 2004 23:56:28	I can give you a bare-bones stat block for the High God as described in the DoaVM Appendix. :-) Divine Rank: Infinite Alignment: Lawful Good Abilities: Str --, Dex --, Con --, Int Inf, Wis Inf, Cha Inf Special Qualities: Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent Matthew L. Martin
#33 talinthas Jan 22, 2004 2:25:41	bah. you mean True Neutral, right? ;)
#34 ferratus Jan 22, 2004 3:20:52	I don't know, then he wouldn't be diametrically opposed to Chaos. Maybe we should just call him "Lawful", the word or law that contains the universe entire. ;) Doesn't have to be good, but he does tend to have a tendency to put things into order and decree laws. But then again, I don't view Chaos as an evil figure either. Just a primal force undoing the latent order of the universe. Given the idea of a "final cataclysm" it might be interesting to think of the creation and destruction of the universe as a cyclical thing. Chaos eventually destroys all (including himself) except possibilty, and that is the seed of the High God to begin his creation anew. Nah... too Stoic. ;)
#35 cam_banks Jan 22, 2004 6:12:33	Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin I can give you a bare-bones stat block for the High God as described in the DoaVM Appendix. :-) Divine Rank: Infinite Alignment: Lawful Good "But mother, if the High God is Lawful Good, why does he let kittens die?" "Hush now, Mina. Nothing you need to worry yourself about." "I'm going out for a swim, mother. I may be some time." Cheers, Cam
#36 Wizardman Jan 22, 2004 10:36:25	Originally posted by The Spellcasting Sorcerer One thing I would suggest when you get around to statting the gods is that while the 3 gods of magic have no clerics and grant no divine spells, they should still have 3 clerical domains that they have personal access to for spell-like abilities and domain-granted powers. Solinari should get Good, Law, and Magic. Lunitari should have Law, Magic, and Trickery. And Nuitari should recieve Evil, Law, and Magic. That should make them balanced. Anyway, I hope my comments helped a bit. I agree, except with Lunitari's domains. She is N, not LN. I would have the Gods of Magic have the following domains: Solinari: Good, Law, Magic Lunitari: Illusion (from the FR Campaign Setting), Magic, Trickery Nuitari: Evil, Law, Magic I've heard on this board that 2E had the three gods have clerics of their own, with the caveat that all clerics already had to be WoHS. I would bring this back, with the following condition: the potential cleric should have a specific WoHS power, namely: White Robe- Radiant Magic, Red Robe- Pure Magic, Black Robe- Negative Magic. I realize that I've just bastardized the names, but I trust you know what I'm talking about. Why would any wizard do that? Well, some wizards are more devoted to the gods of magic than others, and there is the Mystic Theurge PrC to sweeten the deal.
#37 cam_banks Jan 22, 2004 12:24:30	Originally posted by Wizardman Solinari: Good, Law, Magic Lunitari: Illusion (from the FR Campaign Setting), Magic, Trickery Nuitari: Evil, Law, Magic My preferences are: Solinari: Good, Magic, Protection Lunitari: Luck, Magic, Trickery Nuitari: Death, Evil, Magic You'll note that I've left out Law. I figure that their moral alignment is most central to them, and after that the specific schools that they're known for (abjuration in Solinari's case, though you could argue Knowledge; illusion and transmutation in Lunitari's case, and necromancy in Nuitari's case, although you could argue Trickery also). Cheers, Cam
#38 zombiegleemax Jan 23, 2004 12:25:28	1. I see your point, but I am still farvour of Chislev having druid levels. 2. On the Mystic vs. Cleric Issue: Drawing on ones own power, as the gods do, is of course the way of the mystic rather than the cleric. But the cleric has an understanding of the divine essence, the divine law and cosmos. The mystic "only" has an understanding of him/her -self, and the inner power. So cleric would probably be the best choice, if you look at it overall. But I like diversity in campaign setttings, so I will support the mystic version for DL gods. (chislev excepted, druid/mystic would solve the problem.) 3. maybe reorx should have expert levels, I don't him as the "rouge'ish" type, okay dougan redhammer is a little sly, but 20 levels? I would suggest the Dvine Oracle prestige class(found in defenders of the faith) for Zivilyn, since he is an oracle. Thats my thoughts for now, enjoy.