Disguises of Takhisis? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Disguises of Takhisis?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 11, 2004 16:40:31 Considering how Takhisis appeared as Fizban and later as two different Shadow Sorcerers to both Palin and Dalamar, what other characters of the fifth age may she have played?

Personally I thought she has the Herald, but with his appearance in the Sylvan Key adventure post-WoS I suppose she wasn't him.

That still leaves the Sage of the Citidel of Light in question in my opinion, and what about that elf that teaches Gilthanas sorcery in the Odessey?

Anyone have any other thoughts?
#2
cam_banks
Jan 11, 2004 16:41:20
Originally posted by SageofKaolyn

That still leaves the Sage of the Citidel of Light in question in my opinion, and what about that elf that teaches Gilthanas sorcery in the Odessey?

The Sage was Mirror, as far as I recall.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 11, 2004 16:48:28
Originally posted by Cam Banks
The Sage was Mirror, as far as I recall.

Cheers,
Cam

Yes I have heard that before. But how did mirror discover the new magic of mystism. If I understand correctly it was a totally new magic unknown before that time.
#4
ferratus
Jan 12, 2004 2:31:52
Originally posted by SageofKaolyn
Yes I have heard that before. But how did mirror discover the new magic of mystism. If I understand correctly it was a totally new magic unknown before that time.

He pointed out that Goldmoon already knew how to summon up divine energy. That's why mysticism was able to arise in the 5th Age rather than post-cataclysm. Post-cataclysm there wasn't any clerics left alone to struggle without their dieties.

That's why I say it would be much neater to simply have the gods teach a variant form of light and dark mysticism which we know as "clerical" magic. It would weave the two types of magic together so they fit naturally side by side in the setting. The gods teach clerics how to fully unlock the true power of their luminous souls, while monks and mystics discover it for themselves.

However, nobody believes me. I'm too much of a scoundrel I guess. ;)
#5
cam_banks
Jan 12, 2004 3:30:33
Originally posted by ferratus

However, nobody believes me. I'm too much of a scoundrel I guess. ;)

Something like that.

Mirror was able to teach mysticism to Goldmoon because silver dragons, like some others, are capable of using ambient magic to achieve effects like mysticism and Mirror must have understood at least this once the gods had departed. He had an innate understanding of the magic that he was able to share with Goldmoon, in other words - and he had Goldmoon draw upon her existing faith to provide her own framework for it.

Mysticism requires that the mystic have some kind of existing faith or emotional investment to allow the mystic to reach within herself and tap into the divine energy that exists as a force within all living things. Faith is a gateway to mysticism, much as it is a gateway to an understanding of the Gods, but unlike a cleric a mystic experiences no surrendering of herself to the patronage of a higher power, no link to divinity.

Cheers,
Cam
#6
cam_banks
Jan 12, 2004 3:44:49 I should point out that I'm not actually trying to kick off another discussion about the differences between mysticism and clerical magic.

Nothing to see here. Move along...

Cheers,
Cam
#7
ferratus
Jan 12, 2004 6:37:11 Yeah, like I said, the currently accepted explanation is unecessarily convoluted.

Like it or not, DL clerics have always been about the questioning, the spiritual journey and the training. Goldmoon reads the disks of Mishakal, gains wisdom, becomes cleric. Other than that, Dragonlance doesn't have anything to say on the matter.

The idea of clerics absolutely needing the gods to "juice them up" is pretty much the result of prior conditioning of the way other D&D settings have handled the cleric/diety relationship, particularly the Forgotten Realms, which has a straight up worship for magic contractual agreement. The DLCS itself simply says that gods "grant" magic to clerics, they don't say how.

In both our versions, clerics have godly masters, while mystics summon their divine power from within themselves. Now I'm sure your explanation is probably the one that will be cemented in as canon, but my explanation is a lot easier to explain to new players who don't know what this "mysticism" thing is all about and how it fits together with clerical magic.
#8
cam_banks
Jan 12, 2004 8:52:12
Originally posted by ferratus
Now I'm sure your explanation is probably the one that will be cemented in as canon, but my explanation is a lot easier to explain to new players who don't know what this "mysticism" thing is all about and how it fits together with clerical magic.

I wouldn't say that. All of my players, only some of whom were familiar with Dragonlance and none of whom had any experience of the 5th age and mysticism, picked it up right off the bat.

Cheers,
Cam
#9
ferratus
Jan 12, 2004 12:19:13 Well, plus when you have clerical magic for thousands of years into Krynn's past and then mystical magic (which should have been discovered first) suddenly showing up in the 5th Age (or being known during Age of Dreams, disappearing and reappearing again) it just looks sloppy.

Making divine magic disappear only when mankind loses faith, and otherwise having the luminous power of the soul around in one form or another through the entire continuity just looks neater.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 11, 2004 16:40:31	Considering how Takhisis appeared as Fizban and later as two different Shadow Sorcerers to both Palin and Dalamar, what other characters of the fifth age may she have played? Personally I thought she has the Herald, but with his appearance in the Sylvan Key adventure post-WoS I suppose she wasn't him. That still leaves the Sage of the Citidel of Light in question in my opinion, and what about that elf that teaches Gilthanas sorcery in the Odessey? Anyone have any other thoughts?
#2 cam_banks Jan 11, 2004 16:41:20	Originally posted by SageofKaolyn That still leaves the Sage of the Citidel of Light in question in my opinion, and what about that elf that teaches Gilthanas sorcery in the Odessey? The Sage was Mirror, as far as I recall. Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 11, 2004 16:48:28	Originally posted by Cam Banks The Sage was Mirror, as far as I recall. Cheers, Cam Yes I have heard that before. But how did mirror discover the new magic of mystism. If I understand correctly it was a totally new magic unknown before that time.
#4 ferratus Jan 12, 2004 2:31:52	Originally posted by SageofKaolyn Yes I have heard that before. But how did mirror discover the new magic of mystism. If I understand correctly it was a totally new magic unknown before that time. He pointed out that Goldmoon already knew how to summon up divine energy. That's why mysticism was able to arise in the 5th Age rather than post-cataclysm. Post-cataclysm there wasn't any clerics left alone to struggle without their dieties. That's why I say it would be much neater to simply have the gods teach a variant form of light and dark mysticism which we know as "clerical" magic. It would weave the two types of magic together so they fit naturally side by side in the setting. The gods teach clerics how to fully unlock the true power of their luminous souls, while monks and mystics discover it for themselves. However, nobody believes me. I'm too much of a scoundrel I guess. ;)
#5 cam_banks Jan 12, 2004 3:30:33	Originally posted by ferratus However, nobody believes me. I'm too much of a scoundrel I guess. ;) Something like that. Mirror was able to teach mysticism to Goldmoon because silver dragons, like some others, are capable of using ambient magic to achieve effects like mysticism and Mirror must have understood at least this once the gods had departed. He had an innate understanding of the magic that he was able to share with Goldmoon, in other words - and he had Goldmoon draw upon her existing faith to provide her own framework for it. Mysticism requires that the mystic have some kind of existing faith or emotional investment to allow the mystic to reach within herself and tap into the divine energy that exists as a force within all living things. Faith is a gateway to mysticism, much as it is a gateway to an understanding of the Gods, but unlike a cleric a mystic experiences no surrendering of herself to the patronage of a higher power, no link to divinity. Cheers, Cam
#6 cam_banks Jan 12, 2004 3:44:49	I should point out that I'm not actually trying to kick off another discussion about the differences between mysticism and clerical magic. Nothing to see here. Move along... Cheers, Cam
#7 ferratus Jan 12, 2004 6:37:11	Yeah, like I said, the currently accepted explanation is unecessarily convoluted. Like it or not, DL clerics have always been about the questioning, the spiritual journey and the training. Goldmoon reads the disks of Mishakal, gains wisdom, becomes cleric. Other than that, Dragonlance doesn't have anything to say on the matter. The idea of clerics absolutely needing the gods to "juice them up" is pretty much the result of prior conditioning of the way other D&D settings have handled the cleric/diety relationship, particularly the Forgotten Realms, which has a straight up worship for magic contractual agreement. The DLCS itself simply says that gods "grant" magic to clerics, they don't say how. In both our versions, clerics have godly masters, while mystics summon their divine power from within themselves. Now I'm sure your explanation is probably the one that will be cemented in as canon, but my explanation is a lot easier to explain to new players who don't know what this "mysticism" thing is all about and how it fits together with clerical magic.
#8 cam_banks Jan 12, 2004 8:52:12	Originally posted by ferratus Now I'm sure your explanation is probably the one that will be cemented in as canon, but my explanation is a lot easier to explain to new players who don't know what this "mysticism" thing is all about and how it fits together with clerical magic. I wouldn't say that. All of my players, only some of whom were familiar with Dragonlance and none of whom had any experience of the 5th age and mysticism, picked it up right off the bat. Cheers, Cam
#9 ferratus Jan 12, 2004 12:19:13	Well, plus when you have clerical magic for thousands of years into Krynn's past and then mystical magic (which should have been discovered first) suddenly showing up in the 5th Age (or being known during Age of Dreams, disappearing and reappearing again) it just looks sloppy. Making divine magic disappear only when mankind loses faith, and otherwise having the luminous power of the soul around in one form or another through the entire continuity just looks neater.