WoHS test... info needed on requirements!! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

WoHS test... info needed on requirements!!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
XIII
Jan 16, 2004 0:03:03 In the DLCS it says the wizard need 7 ranks in spellcraft, aint that meaning he cant try his test before lv 4? since he can only get 7 ranks while being lv 4...

I am used to the 2nd edition where the wizard was required to pass the test at lv 3... ??

Anyone?

Thanks

XIII
#2
Wizardman
Jan 16, 2004 2:17:35 Pretty much, yeah, that's exactly what it means. But your campaign means you can do what you want. There might be a way to justify passing the Test at third level, but you'd have to have an generous DM. That is: allow modifiers to count as class ranks for the purposes of the Prestige Class, and add modifiers to your Saves. If you have, say, a 14 or 15 intelligence, that's a +2 modifier. At third level, the maximum amount of actual skill ranks you can have in a class skill is 6 before the modifiers. If you add the modifiers into the equation, you would have 8 skill ranks- more than enough to justify taking the Test between levels three and four. The prereq's also state that a +4 Will Save is needed. There is no way for that to be reached prior to 4th level. If your DM allows you to add your Wisdom modifier for the purposes of meeting your prereq's, you would be able to take the Test between levels three and four with a 12 or better Wisdom score. Of course, if your score is 11 or less, then you're SOL on that account, and will have to wait for 4th level. And like I said, you'd have to have an generous DM.
#3
cam_banks
Jan 16, 2004 6:30:56 You can have characters take the Test at 3rd level if you like, but they just can't pick up the prestige class until they have enough experience points for 5th level. You don't, contrary to what you might think from the text, have to take the PrC immediately after passing the Test. Some wizards simply can't because of other pre-requisites, such as feats, and may only qualify after a couple more levels of wizard. Until that time, however, the character does not get to enjoy the full benefits of passing the Test.

Cheers,
Cam
#4
zombiegleemax
Jan 16, 2004 7:43:27 The reason prestige classes have prerequisites is so that players can't take them before a certain level. If you start allowing stat modifiers to count, it unbalances the prestige class vs normal class thing.

And anyway, you don't have to administer the test if the wizard is smart enough - he is only tracked down if his magic is getting too powerful, and there are plenty of ways to avoid showing magic as powerful. If he wants to take the prestige class, there's no point giving him the test early, because he'd still have to wait for the class.

I'm not sure on Cam's suggestion of taking the test early and waiting for the benefits anyway - passing the test is meant to be a symbol of you dedicating yourself to your patron moon god, who responds by giving you bonus powers every time their moon is at sanction. If you don't have the prestige class, you don't get the bonus.

I think personally, I'd run it so that the wizard becoming a WoHS would have to take the first level of the prestige class, but not have to take any more levels after that. Unless I felt like being idle, and didn't track the moons, at which point, yeah, give up.
#5
cam_banks
Jan 16, 2004 9:39:30
Originally posted by pddisc
I think personally, I'd run it so that the wizard becoming a WoHS would have to take the first level of the prestige class, but not have to take any more levels after that. Unless I felt like being idle, and didn't track the moons, at which point, yeah, give up.

The issue here is that the Test is a requirement for the class, and the text erroneously implies that as soon as you take the Test, you instantly gain a level in the prestige class. There are many reasons why this isn't the case, notably the experience points required to actually advance being the deciding factor. In addition, not every wizard will have accrued the necessary feats and ranks to qualify for the class, yet needs to take the Test before acquiring the ability to cast 3rd-level spells.

Currently, the class is set up so that you need to be 4th level to qualify for it (Will save +4, 7 ranks in Spellcraft, etc). The prestige class is your 5th level, and because of the bonus to spellcaster progression, will also be the point at which you gain access to 3rd level spells (which kick in at caster level 5th).

With some forethought, a DM can arrange for the Test to occur during the character's 4th level, and have sufficient XP given to allow the wizard to advance. The player should, however, have worked to acquire all of the necessary requirements by that time.

One of my players is playing a diviner who intends to become a White Robe. However, he also wants to be something of a diplomat, so he's taken a feat and some ranks in skills that mean he'll not qualify for the PrC by the time he's a 4th level wizard. To resolve this, he's taking a level in marshal (from the Miniatures Handbook) which will allow him to delay getting to Wiz4 and thus have enough time to pick up what he needs. When he's finally ready, he'll take a 4th level in wizard, and then the Test will come about sometime later, enabling him to get enough XP to advance and pick up the WoHS PRC.

Cheers,
Cam
#6
zombiegleemax
Jan 17, 2004 7:16:18 But the way I see it is that the WoHS aren't going to be able to find every fourth level person in the land and demand them to be tested. Those characters that are really enthusiastic about becoming WoHS will either learn everything they need to do it as quickly as possible, and then find the wizards, or go there early, and be forced to wander around in Wayreth Forest until they're ready.

I see it as wizards have to be at least fourth level before the Order will even administer the test, but not that all wizards upon attaining fourth level will go and take it. If the prospective WoHS wait until they really do have the power the Orders want contained, which isn't second level spells, then they will normally have the prerequisites.

You have to be ready to their standards before they'll give you the test, and their standards are the minimum prerequisites.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 XIII Jan 16, 2004 0:03:03	In the DLCS it says the wizard need 7 ranks in spellcraft, aint that meaning he cant try his test before lv 4? since he can only get 7 ranks while being lv 4... I am used to the 2nd edition where the wizard was required to pass the test at lv 3... ?? Anyone? Thanks XIII
#2 Wizardman Jan 16, 2004 2:17:35	Pretty much, yeah, that's exactly what it means. But your campaign means you can do what you want. There might be a way to justify passing the Test at third level, but you'd have to have an generous DM. That is: allow modifiers to count as class ranks for the purposes of the Prestige Class, and add modifiers to your Saves. If you have, say, a 14 or 15 intelligence, that's a +2 modifier. At third level, the maximum amount of actual skill ranks you can have in a class skill is 6 before the modifiers. If you add the modifiers into the equation, you would have 8 skill ranks- more than enough to justify taking the Test between levels three and four. The prereq's also state that a +4 Will Save is needed. There is no way for that to be reached prior to 4th level. If your DM allows you to add your Wisdom modifier for the purposes of meeting your prereq's, you would be able to take the Test between levels three and four with a 12 or better Wisdom score. Of course, if your score is 11 or less, then you're SOL on that account, and will have to wait for 4th level. And like I said, you'd have to have an generous DM.
#3 cam_banks Jan 16, 2004 6:30:56	You can have characters take the Test at 3rd level if you like, but they just can't pick up the prestige class until they have enough experience points for 5th level. You don't, contrary to what you might think from the text, have to take the PrC immediately after passing the Test. Some wizards simply can't because of other pre-requisites, such as feats, and may only qualify after a couple more levels of wizard. Until that time, however, the character does not get to enjoy the full benefits of passing the Test. Cheers, Cam
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 16, 2004 7:43:27	The reason prestige classes have prerequisites is so that players can't take them before a certain level. If you start allowing stat modifiers to count, it unbalances the prestige class vs normal class thing. And anyway, you don't have to administer the test if the wizard is smart enough - he is only tracked down if his magic is getting too powerful, and there are plenty of ways to avoid showing magic as powerful. If he wants to take the prestige class, there's no point giving him the test early, because he'd still have to wait for the class. I'm not sure on Cam's suggestion of taking the test early and waiting for the benefits anyway - passing the test is meant to be a symbol of you dedicating yourself to your patron moon god, who responds by giving you bonus powers every time their moon is at sanction. If you don't have the prestige class, you don't get the bonus. I think personally, I'd run it so that the wizard becoming a WoHS would have to take the first level of the prestige class, but not have to take any more levels after that. Unless I felt like being idle, and didn't track the moons, at which point, yeah, give up.
#5 cam_banks Jan 16, 2004 9:39:30	Originally posted by pddisc I think personally, I'd run it so that the wizard becoming a WoHS would have to take the first level of the prestige class, but not have to take any more levels after that. Unless I felt like being idle, and didn't track the moons, at which point, yeah, give up. The issue here is that the Test is a requirement for the class, and the text erroneously implies that as soon as you take the Test, you instantly gain a level in the prestige class. There are many reasons why this isn't the case, notably the experience points required to actually advance being the deciding factor. In addition, not every wizard will have accrued the necessary feats and ranks to qualify for the class, yet needs to take the Test before acquiring the ability to cast 3rd-level spells. Currently, the class is set up so that you need to be 4th level to qualify for it (Will save +4, 7 ranks in Spellcraft, etc). The prestige class is your 5th level, and because of the bonus to spellcaster progression, will also be the point at which you gain access to 3rd level spells (which kick in at caster level 5th). With some forethought, a DM can arrange for the Test to occur during the character's 4th level, and have sufficient XP given to allow the wizard to advance. The player should, however, have worked to acquire all of the necessary requirements by that time. One of my players is playing a diviner who intends to become a White Robe. However, he also wants to be something of a diplomat, so he's taken a feat and some ranks in skills that mean he'll not qualify for the PrC by the time he's a 4th level wizard. To resolve this, he's taking a level in marshal (from the Miniatures Handbook) which will allow him to delay getting to Wiz4 and thus have enough time to pick up what he needs. When he's finally ready, he'll take a 4th level in wizard, and then the Test will come about sometime later, enabling him to get enough XP to advance and pick up the WoHS PRC. Cheers, Cam
#6 zombiegleemax Jan 17, 2004 7:16:18	But the way I see it is that the WoHS aren't going to be able to find every fourth level person in the land and demand them to be tested. Those characters that are really enthusiastic about becoming WoHS will either learn everything they need to do it as quickly as possible, and then find the wizards, or go there early, and be forced to wander around in Wayreth Forest until they're ready. I see it as wizards have to be at least fourth level before the Order will even administer the test, but not that all wizards upon attaining fourth level will go and take it. If the prospective WoHS wait until they really do have the power the Orders want contained, which isn't second level spells, then they will normally have the prerequisites. You have to be ready to their standards before they'll give you the test, and their standards are the minimum prerequisites.