Question about Dead Truce - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Question about Dead Truce

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bonemage
Jan 18, 2004 12:54:26 How do you prevent a PC character from obeying the Dead Truce and what would they know about it? SImply the fact if they are undead they can't attack the Dustman? Is this pact powerful enough to take away free will in the case of PC vampires and such?

Just been pondering this over the last few days and haven't come up with a good answer or solution to the question.
#2
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 13:27:51 Meaning the PC is the one that is the undead?
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 14:42:51 I'm guessing this simply isn't something that came up. 3e sort of opened up the floodgates on playable races. I do know they only ever seem to talk about the dead truce in relation to zombies in the books.

If it's really important, you could probably just come up with a DC for a will save to overcome the ability, sort of like invisibility to undead.
#4
bonemage
Jan 18, 2004 14:58:37 Perhaps and it hasn't come up in a game as yet I was just digging around my Planescape stuff again and this thought occured to me.

Answer to the first question yes the PC would be the undead creature.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 15:01:29 I'd use a will save also, as overtrick recommends.

Or of course, the good old fated could "sense" that this critter (The PC) has violated the truce, and he's now safe to attack en masse.

In fact, you could play it that sense he's an undead in violation of the truce, that makes him an open target for dustmen experiments and such. Or a bounty on his head for being an abomination to everything the undead truce stands for.
#6
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 19, 2004 20:07:45 How the Dead Truce works, and how Skall ever got it applied to his faction members is one of the rather great mysteries lingering around from the era of the old factions.

In a few words: Nobody knows the answers to what it is or why it works. But no undead, intelligent or not will willingly attack a member of the Dustmen unless they are attacked first. (This does not prevent an undead, be they intelligent or not, from butchering any non Dustmen companions of an individual with the Dead Truce.

If the Dustman with the Dead Truce attacks an undead for any reason then the Truce is broken for that single instance and the undead there are free to attack them. However the Truce still applies in any future encounters with undead, but not with any specific undead that have been attacked by that Dustman who survive to meet them later.
#7
bonemage
Jan 19, 2004 20:12:40 I guess I knew all of that information before but was curious if anyone had any experience in keeping undead characters from "breaking the truce" so to speak.
#8
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 19, 2004 21:28:36 Sadly no, its never popped up in a game. I've had little chance to use the Dustmen, besides a largely behind the scenes cold war that Oridi Malefine and Qaida had with Shemeska the Marauder. It was largely bloodless except for the (prompted) suicide of Muriov Garianis. That effectively stopped any hostilities between the two groups since the Dustmen were not eager, at the moment, to go to the same lengths.

As much as I'd enjoy having an undead character, or a Dustmen character played in one of my games, its not likely to happen in my current campaign. I'd allow it though, just for the unique plot potential it would present. In that case the Dead Truce would indeed play a relevant place in a campaign. I'm love to have that challange.
#9
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 11:00:06 Dustmen rocks :D

I have a soft spot for these since PS:T.
#10
moogle001
Jan 28, 2004 10:24:46 I'm not sure how you think the undead character is "breaking the truce". In terms of their knowledge of how the truce works, that's beyond the knowledge of most Dustmen, and may simply be a result of the belief in the truce to begin with.

Now, in terms of whether an undead character cannot attack a Dustmen with the Greater Dead Truce, I would absolutely say he cannot, no will save. Being undead has many advantages as is, and their flaws are an important part of their existence. The flavor of the truce shouldn't be dampened simply for the players sake. In terms of the player's persective, I'd say they "know" that they should not attack the Dustman, and cannot override this instinct.

Of course, I say this based on the 3e rules. How it works in 2e is dependent on whether it works on intelligent undead to begin with. And of course, the DM may rule that certain "unique" undead, such as Skall, might have the force of will to override it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bonemage Jan 18, 2004 12:54:26	How do you prevent a PC character from obeying the Dead Truce and what would they know about it? SImply the fact if they are undead they can't attack the Dustman? Is this pact powerful enough to take away free will in the case of PC vampires and such? Just been pondering this over the last few days and haven't come up with a good answer or solution to the question.
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 13:27:51	Meaning the PC is the one that is the undead?
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 14:42:51	I'm guessing this simply isn't something that came up. 3e sort of opened up the floodgates on playable races. I do know they only ever seem to talk about the dead truce in relation to zombies in the books. If it's really important, you could probably just come up with a DC for a will save to overcome the ability, sort of like invisibility to undead.
#4 bonemage Jan 18, 2004 14:58:37	Perhaps and it hasn't come up in a game as yet I was just digging around my Planescape stuff again and this thought occured to me. Answer to the first question yes the PC would be the undead creature.
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 15:01:29	I'd use a will save also, as overtrick recommends. Or of course, the good old fated could "sense" that this critter (The PC) has violated the truce, and he's now safe to attack en masse. In fact, you could play it that sense he's an undead in violation of the truce, that makes him an open target for dustmen experiments and such. Or a bounty on his head for being an abomination to everything the undead truce stands for.
#6 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 19, 2004 20:07:45	How the Dead Truce works, and how Skall ever got it applied to his faction members is one of the rather great mysteries lingering around from the era of the old factions. In a few words: Nobody knows the answers to what it is or why it works. But no undead, intelligent or not will willingly attack a member of the Dustmen unless they are attacked first. (This does not prevent an undead, be they intelligent or not, from butchering any non Dustmen companions of an individual with the Dead Truce. If the Dustman with the Dead Truce attacks an undead for any reason then the Truce is broken for that single instance and the undead there are free to attack them. However the Truce still applies in any future encounters with undead, but not with any specific undead that have been attacked by that Dustman who survive to meet them later.
#7 bonemage Jan 19, 2004 20:12:40	I guess I knew all of that information before but was curious if anyone had any experience in keeping undead characters from "breaking the truce" so to speak.
#8 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 19, 2004 21:28:36	Sadly no, its never popped up in a game. I've had little chance to use the Dustmen, besides a largely behind the scenes cold war that Oridi Malefine and Qaida had with Shemeska the Marauder. It was largely bloodless except for the (prompted) suicide of Muriov Garianis. That effectively stopped any hostilities between the two groups since the Dustmen were not eager, at the moment, to go to the same lengths. As much as I'd enjoy having an undead character, or a Dustmen character played in one of my games, its not likely to happen in my current campaign. I'd allow it though, just for the unique plot potential it would present. In that case the Dead Truce would indeed play a relevant place in a campaign. I'm love to have that challange.
#9 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 11:00:06	Dustmen rocks :D I have a soft spot for these since PS:T.
#10 moogle001 Jan 28, 2004 10:24:46	I'm not sure how you think the undead character is "breaking the truce". In terms of their knowledge of how the truce works, that's beyond the knowledge of most Dustmen, and may simply be a result of the belief in the truce to begin with. Now, in terms of whether an undead character cannot attack a Dustmen with the Greater Dead Truce, I would absolutely say he cannot, no will save. Being undead has many advantages as is, and their flaws are an important part of their existence. The flavor of the truce shouldn't be dampened simply for the players sake. In terms of the player's persective, I'd say they "know" that they should not attack the Dustman, and cannot override this instinct. Of course, I say this based on the 3e rules. How it works in 2e is dependent on whether it works on intelligent undead to begin with. And of course, the DM may rule that certain "unique" undead, such as Skall, might have the force of will to override it.