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Whats the difference?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 15:34:06 Ok I was thinking about actually breaking down and getting The LGG (gag) when I was searching the .com I use they have two differing books with the same descrip. One is of course the LGG the other is called the Dungeons and dragons Gazeteer. SO are they the same or is there a Difference.

Oh and what's up with the Greyhawk pantheon being replaced by the name D&D pantheon?
#2
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 15:54:57 LGG is 192 pages and is the better.

The D&D Gaz is a 30 page "broad strokes" overview of Greyhawk.

I personally bought both, the D&D Gaz is nice and short so it's perfect to pass around to new players who aren't familiar with Greyhawk, but for running an actual campaign, I'd say go with the LGG.

The pantheon's name was changed so that people won't get into Greyhawk. They're trying to sell FR, calling something the Greyhawk Pantheon would have people ask "why is it called that?" and then "so what is this 'Greyhawk'?" and then "hey, I think I'll buy some of this Greyhawk". That cannot happen since wizards want to sell FR instead. At least, thats how I see it.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 17:43:54
Originally posted by Coldpenguin625
LGG is 192 pages and is the better.

The D&D Gaz is a 30 page "broad strokes" overview of Greyhawk.

I personally bought both, the D&D Gaz is nice and short so it's perfect to pass around to new players who aren't familiar with Greyhawk, but for running an actual campaign, I'd say go with the LGG.

The pantheon's name was changed so that people won't get into Greyhawk. They're trying to sell FR, calling something the Greyhawk Pantheon would have people ask "why is it called that?" and then "so what is this 'Greyhawk'?" and then "hey, I think I'll buy some of this Greyhawk". That cannot happen since wizards want to sell FR instead. At least, thats how I see it.

Ok, Let me ask you this, if I may. Lets say you had the choice between previous edition Greyhawk Material and the limited new material, wich would you choose?

See I never really played Greyhawk but I was always using elements from it in my 2e games. I am an FR fan but I feel the treatment given to GH has been unfair given that it is the supposed default world. ( something I highly question)

I do agree that WOTC has been pushing FR more than it should and I also I agree with your assessment of the Pantheon changes.

The main issue here for me is that if I do buy them am I supporting Wotc's "ignore it" policy with GH or would I actually be supporting it? Similarly would buying the Earlier eds of it be a protest vote against the current condition the setting has seen?

Maybe I am overthinking this but I want to try Grehawk without supporting the unattention it has been given.
#4
cwslyclgh
Jan 18, 2004 18:21:43 here is the deal about the LGG, there are no rules in it what so ever, other then some parenthicle notations about a certian peoples race and level: For exmple Otto (N male human Wiz15/Clr3 of boccob)...

that being the case the LGG is a wonderful resource for any DM who plans on using greyhawk to have regardless of the gaming system, provided that you want to play circa 590 cy... obviously if you want to play pre greyhawk wars and such the LGG will not be of a much help to you. (and I would suggest the '83 boxed set if you can find it).

me personaly i always buy a greyhawk product that I do not have if I run across it in a used book store or such (note that if you buy previous edition stuff used, WotC makes no money off of it, and in fact has no idea that you did so, so it is kind of an innefectual protest)... I try to have as many greyhawk products as I can to better understand the setting.
#5
twiceborn
Jan 18, 2004 18:57:04 I would contest the comment that the LGG is of little help to DMs running pre-590 CY. I currently am running a campaign set in 576 CY, and the LGG remains the most useful source out there, because it provides much more in terms of historical/political/ details for each country than the earlier boxed sets ever did. Much (though admittedly not all) of that information can easily be transposed to earlier eras. The original WG boxed set and FTA give a snapshot of earlier eras, but the LGG provides far greater details on all regions/players.

As for the rest, I agree with cwslyclgh's assessment... Buying old, out of print stuff is an ineffectual protest (but certainly can enhance your Greyhawk gaming experience). Buying the LGG will at least demonstrate that you're interest in Greyhawk is current... and IMHO, it is the best/most comprehensive sourcebook ever made for Greyhawk (although I remain a bigger fan of the Sargent era, mood-wise!). I also like the fact that it's rules light... it concentrates on places and events, and leaves it up to you to flesh out stats (regardless of what edition you are playing).

I hope that helps...
#6
zombiegleemax
Jan 18, 2004 19:47:31
Originally posted by TwiceBorn
I would contest the comment that the LGG is of little help to DMs running pre-590 CY.

If you like the outcome of the wars and the history up to 591 CY, then the LGG is also a great resource to use as a guideline for historical events that happen around the PC's but aren't affected by their actions.

I like having the PC's affect history, but they don't effect every single nation (well, at least, not until really high levels), so it's nice to know what's going on around them as it provides a very dynamic backdrop and also gives the DM many spurs for adventure possibilities.

A good for instance is the Crook of Rao. Have the damn adventurers go get it instead of some no-name NPC! Have the adventurers turn Queen Yolande's decision around, or perhaps aid in a coup against her by the Knights so that the nation will come to the aid of Furyondy. Have the PC's stop the assassination attempt on King Lynwerd and convince him not to sacrifice so many troops against Stonehold.

Lots and lots and lots of possibilities.
#7
samwise
Jan 19, 2004 1:36:56 The LGG is the most comprehensive setting book for Greyhawk. If you intend to play long term, you are going to want it.

FtA is the most complete setting product for Greyhawk. If you can find it, it will help immensely in understanding and using everything available in the LGG.

As for supporting or not supporting or whatever, that is relevant only if you believe WotC can track secondary sales of out of print materials. Since I doubt they can do any such thing, you would prove nothing by ignoring the LGG to buy FtA.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jan 19, 2004 19:26:45 The Out of print Gretahwk I was refering to was the original 1e setting. Not FtA.

I undertsnad that Wotc cannot track secondary sells nor get money from them. However the delimma I find myself in is that If I do get the LGG will I be supporting the decison that Wotc made to virtually Ignore Greyhawk?
#9
zombiegleemax
Jan 19, 2004 19:46:39 Actually, buying the LGG up is the best way to get WotC to reconsider their current policy on Greyhawk. If enough people keep buying it, eventually the retailers will try to reorder and the suppliers will pass those requests on to WotC, who will in turn realize that there is still a demand for the products.
#10
samwise
Jan 19, 2004 19:47:28 Getting the Folio or the '83 boxed set would be a waste of money and effort if you are serious about getting information about the setting. You will get more than twice as much material, for well more than twice the value with FtA.

As for getting the LGG and whether that supports some policy, that is an absurd conceit. If you don't want to support a company then don't. Thinking that choosing a specific product like that will give or withhold some sanction for a product line is presuming way too much about how they regard feedback, or how likely you are to change their marketing decisions.
#11
zombiegleemax
Jan 19, 2004 21:15:31 I'll have to reiterate that FTA is the best way to go.

The LGG is fine, but for people with long standing campaigns, it is entirely conflicting with what most DMs have had pass pertaining to events in their personal campaigns.

I'm a heavy supporter of it as a solid product for people new to the setting to buy, but FTA is the best,fllowed by the 83' boxed set. However, both can come rarely and expensive as compared to the LGG which can yield a wealth of Greyhawk knowledge on its own.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 15:34:06	Ok I was thinking about actually breaking down and getting The LGG (gag) when I was searching the .com I use they have two differing books with the same descrip. One is of course the LGG the other is called the Dungeons and dragons Gazeteer. SO are they the same or is there a Difference. Oh and what's up with the Greyhawk pantheon being replaced by the name D&D pantheon?
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 15:54:57	LGG is 192 pages and is the better. The D&D Gaz is a 30 page "broad strokes" overview of Greyhawk. I personally bought both, the D&D Gaz is nice and short so it's perfect to pass around to new players who aren't familiar with Greyhawk, but for running an actual campaign, I'd say go with the LGG. The pantheon's name was changed so that people won't get into Greyhawk. They're trying to sell FR, calling something the Greyhawk Pantheon would have people ask "why is it called that?" and then "so what is this 'Greyhawk'?" and then "hey, I think I'll buy some of this Greyhawk". That cannot happen since wizards want to sell FR instead. At least, thats how I see it.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 17:43:54	Originally posted by Coldpenguin625 LGG is 192 pages and is the better. The D&D Gaz is a 30 page "broad strokes" overview of Greyhawk. I personally bought both, the D&D Gaz is nice and short so it's perfect to pass around to new players who aren't familiar with Greyhawk, but for running an actual campaign, I'd say go with the LGG. The pantheon's name was changed so that people won't get into Greyhawk. They're trying to sell FR, calling something the Greyhawk Pantheon would have people ask "why is it called that?" and then "so what is this 'Greyhawk'?" and then "hey, I think I'll buy some of this Greyhawk". That cannot happen since wizards want to sell FR instead. At least, thats how I see it. Ok, Let me ask you this, if I may. Lets say you had the choice between previous edition Greyhawk Material and the limited new material, wich would you choose? See I never really played Greyhawk but I was always using elements from it in my 2e games. I am an FR fan but I feel the treatment given to GH has been unfair given that it is the supposed default world. ( something I highly question) I do agree that WOTC has been pushing FR more than it should and I also I agree with your assessment of the Pantheon changes. The main issue here for me is that if I do buy them am I supporting Wotc's "ignore it" policy with GH or would I actually be supporting it? Similarly would buying the Earlier eds of it be a protest vote against the current condition the setting has seen? Maybe I am overthinking this but I want to try Grehawk without supporting the unattention it has been given.
#4 cwslyclgh Jan 18, 2004 18:21:43	here is the deal about the LGG, there are no rules in it what so ever, other then some parenthicle notations about a certian peoples race and level: For exmple Otto (N male human Wiz15/Clr3 of boccob)... that being the case the LGG is a wonderful resource for any DM who plans on using greyhawk to have regardless of the gaming system, provided that you want to play circa 590 cy... obviously if you want to play pre greyhawk wars and such the LGG will not be of a much help to you. (and I would suggest the '83 boxed set if you can find it). me personaly i always buy a greyhawk product that I do not have if I run across it in a used book store or such (note that if you buy previous edition stuff used, WotC makes no money off of it, and in fact has no idea that you did so, so it is kind of an innefectual protest)... I try to have as many greyhawk products as I can to better understand the setting.
#5 twiceborn Jan 18, 2004 18:57:04	I would contest the comment that the LGG is of little help to DMs running pre-590 CY. I currently am running a campaign set in 576 CY, and the LGG remains the most useful source out there, because it provides much more in terms of historical/political/ details for each country than the earlier boxed sets ever did. Much (though admittedly not all) of that information can easily be transposed to earlier eras. The original WG boxed set and FTA give a snapshot of earlier eras, but the LGG provides far greater details on all regions/players. As for the rest, I agree with cwslyclgh's assessment... Buying old, out of print stuff is an ineffectual protest (but certainly can enhance your Greyhawk gaming experience). Buying the LGG will at least demonstrate that you're interest in Greyhawk is current... and IMHO, it is the best/most comprehensive sourcebook ever made for Greyhawk (although I remain a bigger fan of the Sargent era, mood-wise!). I also like the fact that it's rules light... it concentrates on places and events, and leaves it up to you to flesh out stats (regardless of what edition you are playing). I hope that helps...
#6 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 19:47:31	Originally posted by TwiceBorn I would contest the comment that the LGG is of little help to DMs running pre-590 CY. If you like the outcome of the wars and the history up to 591 CY, then the LGG is also a great resource to use as a guideline for historical events that happen around the PC's but aren't affected by their actions. I like having the PC's affect history, but they don't effect every single nation (well, at least, not until really high levels), so it's nice to know what's going on around them as it provides a very dynamic backdrop and also gives the DM many spurs for adventure possibilities. A good for instance is the Crook of Rao. Have the damn adventurers go get it instead of some no-name NPC! Have the adventurers turn Queen Yolande's decision around, or perhaps aid in a coup against her by the Knights so that the nation will come to the aid of Furyondy. Have the PC's stop the assassination attempt on King Lynwerd and convince him not to sacrifice so many troops against Stonehold. Lots and lots and lots of possibilities.
#7 samwise Jan 19, 2004 1:36:56	The LGG is the most comprehensive setting book for Greyhawk. If you intend to play long term, you are going to want it. FtA is the most complete setting product for Greyhawk. If you can find it, it will help immensely in understanding and using everything available in the LGG. As for supporting or not supporting or whatever, that is relevant only if you believe WotC can track secondary sales of out of print materials. Since I doubt they can do any such thing, you would prove nothing by ignoring the LGG to buy FtA.
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 19, 2004 19:26:45	The Out of print Gretahwk I was refering to was the original 1e setting. Not FtA. I undertsnad that Wotc cannot track secondary sells nor get money from them. However the delimma I find myself in is that If I do get the LGG will I be supporting the decison that Wotc made to virtually Ignore Greyhawk?
#9 zombiegleemax Jan 19, 2004 19:46:39	Actually, buying the LGG up is the best way to get WotC to reconsider their current policy on Greyhawk. If enough people keep buying it, eventually the retailers will try to reorder and the suppliers will pass those requests on to WotC, who will in turn realize that there is still a demand for the products.
#10 samwise Jan 19, 2004 19:47:28	Getting the Folio or the '83 boxed set would be a waste of money and effort if you are serious about getting information about the setting. You will get more than twice as much material, for well more than twice the value with FtA. As for getting the LGG and whether that supports some policy, that is an absurd conceit. If you don't want to support a company then don't. Thinking that choosing a specific product like that will give or withhold some sanction for a product line is presuming way too much about how they regard feedback, or how likely you are to change their marketing decisions.
#11 zombiegleemax Jan 19, 2004 21:15:31	I'll have to reiterate that FTA is the best way to go. The LGG is fine, but for people with long standing campaigns, it is entirely conflicting with what most DMs have had pass pertaining to events in their personal campaigns. I'm a heavy supporter of it as a solid product for people new to the setting to buy, but FTA is the best,fllowed by the 83' boxed set. However, both can come rarely and expensive as compared to the LGG which can yield a wealth of Greyhawk knowledge on its own.