Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 18, 2004 23:29:05	The PHB allows PC to make power check when he break tenets of good religion. As example of tenet there are singing morning hymn to Morning Lord. It looks like that even if Morning Lord is not character deity and he knows about this tenet he must do sing, or each morning he must made power check... Or Iam misunderstood something?
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 19, 2004 2:39:41	He must make a Powers Check only if he violates the tenets of his own faith, that is, a character worshipping the Morninglord would have to sing his morning hymn at dawn or else.... This has no repercussions on characters who follow other faiths, IIRC.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 20, 2004 0:24:47	Originally posted by Rr'ka He must make a Powers Check only if he violates the tenets of his own faith, that is, a character worshipping the Morninglord would have to sing his morning hymn at dawn or else.... This has no repercussions on characters who follow other faiths, IIRC. No that isnt...just look power check table
#4 The_Jester Jan 20, 2004 4:00:10	Ahem, and I quote "As an example, followers of the Morninglord are expected to sing a short hymn of thanks each morning." There is a difference between breaking a tenet of your own faith and a good faith you're not expected to follow all the rules required by priests. However, if you know of a rule that applies to everyone and not just the priests and you violate said law it is breaking a tenet. ie in the real world Priests are required by be celibate, that is a tenet of the Catholic church and its clergy. However I can engage in carnal acts without it automaticaly being sinful. But only as long as it is in wedlock. Extramarital affairs or premarital relations could be considered breaking a good tenet. There are different rules for followers and priests and the lay folk. And I'd personally say that if the tenets of the character's religion explicitly say something is not a sin it overides it being a sin in other good faiths. ie some pantheon says violating tombs is a horrible sin but your own faith says it is not as the dead have no use of possesions you're safe. But if your faith says nothing one way or another it's violating another faith's tenets. Bound to be a different or better explination but it's 3am here.
#5 bob_the_efreet Jan 20, 2004 17:55:03	Originally posted by Lordik The PHB requires a PC to make a powers check when he breaks tenets of a good religion. As an example of a tenet, there is singing morning hymns to the Morninglord. It looks like that even if the Morninglord is not a character's deity and he knows about this tenet he must sing, or each morning he must make a powers check... Or am I misunderstanding something? No, no, that would be dumb, like making a powers check for learning Tenser's Floating Disc... oh, wait...
#6 Matthew_L._Martin Jan 20, 2004 23:55:57	Originally posted by Bob the Efreet No, no, that would be dumb, like making a powers check for learning Tenser's Floating Disc... oh, wait... Actually, this differentiation between making a powers check for breaking a tenet of your own faith, and breaking a tenet of a good or neutral faith other than your own, dates back to _Forbidden Lore_. The guidelines given there state that it only applies if the character has pledged to respect the practices of the other church; that's a bit that hasn't been repeated in later material, IIRC, but helps clarify this. It's less relevant to Ravenloft religion as it's currently developed, with its more henotheistic, less polytheistic bent, but the principle still stands. Matthew L. Martin
#7 Prof._Pacali Jan 25, 2004 15:05:20	It doesn't seem fair to penalize a character for breaking a tenet, unless they do it consciously. It all goes back to the question of should a PC have to make a Powers check for entering a tomb in Har'Akir, even if they don't know about the laws of Osiris. I certainly wouldn't make someone roll a DP check for not praying to the god of a different religion.
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 28, 2004 10:36:17	it makes as much sense as powers checks for gaining a level.
#9 The_Jester Jan 28, 2004 22:43:37	Originally posted by Prof. Pacali It doesn't seem fair to penalize a character for breaking a tenet, unless they do it consciously. It all goes back to the question of should a PC have to make a Powers check for entering a tomb in Har'Akir, even if they don't know about the laws of Osiris. I certainly wouldn't make someone roll a DP check for not praying to the god of a different religion. If a player accidently or unconciously kills and innocent person (even one they strongly suspected or had good proof was evil) it is still killing an innocent person. Why is breaking a major tenant of a religion less of a violation. Obviously lesser rules (like eating meat on friday or working on the sabbath) would not require a DP check. But one that's huge to the culture would as long as the players are in the borders. Facing east when you pray is not a big deal to christians or jews but it is HUGE for muslims. Tomb raiding for the people of Har'Akir is a very big deal. Like someone walking into a cemetary and defacing graves or digging up corpses and mutilating them. And Aion, read the damn book. The check for gaining a level is optional and only for saving on book-keeping.
#10 zombiegleemax Jan 29, 2004 15:20:00	Originally posted by The_Jester If a player accidently or unconciously kills and innocent person (even one they strongly suspected or had good proof was evil) it is still killing an innocent person. Why is breaking a major tenant of a religion less of a violation. Obviously lesser rules (like eating meat on friday or working on the sabbath) would not require a DP check. But one that's huge to the culture would as long as the players are in the borders. Facing east when you pray is not a big deal to christians or jews but it is HUGE for muslims. Tomb raiding for the people of Har'Akir is a very big deal. Like someone walking into a cemetary and defacing graves or digging up corpses and mutilating them. if a player accidentally kills someone innocent, it is killing, as opposed to murdering. there is a big difference between the two. if you do not believe in a faith, their rules should not apply to you. each faith must uphold their own standards of what is right, and it would be absurd to assume that they would be so openminded as to follow all standards of all faiths. christians don't have restrictions on eating pork, muslims don't celebrate christmas, bhuddists don't pray to allah. thus, you cannot break a tenant of another faith and be forced to make a powers check. doing so is just as absurd as both my example and Bob's example. Matthew is correct in how he interpreted it, by the way. and, of course, that's an optional rule. Jester: being optional doesn't make it any less of a stupid rule. and i'll decline buying a book i already own 90% of and know the extra material is something i won't be using.
#11 zombiegleemax Jan 29, 2004 16:45:28	I personally tend to think that the breaking the tenet of a religion not your own, that you have not sworn to follow, should, if you don't waive the check outright, have its percentage halved. If the PC keeps persisting despite having been told he's giving offense, well, then show no mercy. Frankly, in Tepest and Nidalia failing to respect Belenus properly will probably get you plenty of trouble regardless of any powers check...
#12 john_w._mangrum Jan 30, 2004 10:08:34	It certainly could have used some clarification in the RL PHB. But then again, heck, I would have used the by-then-two-year-old errata when preparing the RL PHB too, so that's just me. But yes, MLM is correct. You would only be held to the tenets of a religion not your own if you had somehow promised to honor them. Ditto vows. Picture a lawful good monastery where the residents have sworn vows of silence. They also request that all guests do the same within their walls as a sign of piety and respect -- perhaps it's all they ask in return for a hot meal and shelter for the night. If you're one of those monks and you talk, you've violated your own faith. If you're a guest, you've violated a lawful good religion. If you're a guest at the doors of the monastery and are presented with that agreement, you can say "no thanks" and walk away. It's only after you've sworn to honor the religion, and broken that promise, that the Dark Powers would care.
#13 zombiegleemax Jan 30, 2004 12:47:01	Would this be okay if this answer was added to FoS website FAQ?