Wizard's Test..... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Wizard's Test.....

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 20, 2004 13:10:09 I'm planning a test for the wizard in my gaming group.
Now secretly the other players will be in on the test. Basically playing their characters as conjurations of the test itself. No harm will actually happen to them.

The wizard will arrive at the destination (does the test need to be done at a ToHS?) and the wizard will be instructed to rest and meditate for a couple days before taking the test, the other companions are given rooms to stay in.

However that night the location will be invaded by hordes of draconians. This being the beginning of the test.

They will fight hard to defend the location but they will have to fallback. The location will be set on fire and there's ancient magic tomes that the Wizard realizes are in need of rescuing.

The fire is spreading fast and the draconians are moving in on there area when one of the PCs get's trapped and needs the wizards help (hadn't decided quite how yet), but the wizard will have to decide between easily rescuing the tomes or stopping and helping a friend and risking damage to the tomes.

If she refuses to help one of the PCs will try to prevent her leaving and try to make/convince her to help.

I don't like the DLCS's view on the tests. I plan on judging the wizard's use of her spells, her spell selection and how she reacts to an injured friend in need.

Here's how I figure out the robes:
-White Robes:
Defensive spell use, avoids causing direct harm, and helps friend without need of convincing

-Red Robes:
Defensive spell use, causes direct harm when useful, and needs convincing to help friend versus leaving the fire with the tomes.

-Black Robes:
Focuses on getting out of there with the tomes and no concern of friends safety. Would use them as a speed bump to the draconians if she can get out safely.

I don't want several little tests because I want the wizard to not even realize the test has occured until it's over.
Thanks!
#2
XIII
Jan 20, 2004 18:05:31 I do like your idea.
My Wizard player is only lv 3 but he went to find the tower and so, he found it, but since he cant do his test yet (at least thats what he is told) he will be told by a WoHS when to take the test.

My idea was to make the other players participate in it by being there and turning on the Wizard...

But there, you have a point. I might try to inn's idea that should cover a good part of the test, the rest he shall do at lv 4 =)

XIII.
#3
drachasor
Jan 20, 2004 23:28:58 Hmm...what about a Lawful Evil wizard? They might have loyalty to their friends even though they are selfish. I don't think your system accounts for this.

Also, a neutral would probably help his friends (neutrals tend to help friends and family), but would be more hesitant about helping a stranger (as would anyone of evil alignment).

Hmm, in my mind:

Good: Helps friends/strangers, rescues books as best they can. Willing to die to ensure the books survive.

Neutral: Helps friends....helps strangers with convincing (or if there is something encouraging them to help...such as a lonely male helping a fair damsel). Also willing to sacrifice life to ensure the survival of the magical texts. If the he can quickly proposition strangers, might insist that they help with rescuing the texts if they are to be freed (this is treading the line between neutral and evil though).

Evil: Might help friends (depending on individual differences). Won't help strangers unless it is easy to get them to help with the rescue of the books (both easy to ask and easy to get an answer). Since time is valuable they probbably won't spend much time talknig their friends out of helping strangers though (if the wizard is smart). Far less inclined to die for the texts....a choice between their life and the books would be their life....a choice between their life and the books...or just the books surviving would result in the books surviving.

That's the breakdown as best I see.

-Drachasor
#4
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 8:59:14 I will have to change some of the stuff.
I like your ideas.

If a player is currently neutral and performs worthy of a black robe that would have to change their alignment right?
#5
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 10:06:24 Technicaly from a rules perspective, kinda.

The alignment restrictions on the WoHS are one of my biggest complaints. I believe the test and how you behave during it shuld determine your robe color, while the rules go strait to alignment for robe color regardles of how the test went.

Basicly my problem is that it overlooks the fact that alignment is only a general indicator, and that a good person could act evil every once in a while, like say when its something they passionatly care about and realy want to pass (the test).
#6
drachasor
Jan 21, 2004 10:42:51
Originally posted by Halabis
Technicaly from a rules perspective, kinda.

The alignment restrictions on the WoHS are one of my biggest complaints. I believe the test and how you behave during it shuld determine your robe color, while the rules go strait to alignment for robe color regardles of how the test went.

Basicly my problem is that it overlooks the fact that alignment is only a general indicator, and that a good person could act evil every once in a while, like say when its something they passionatly care about and realy want to pass (the test).

It's rather hard to make the proper test environment in a game though. The test is supposed to overcome any such factors or intentions by the taker and get straight to their heart and soul regarding alignment and magic. A tall order to fill for a DM.

-Drachasor
#7
dr_teeth
Jan 22, 2004 0:16:09 I think its a great idea for the Test. The best tests are the ones you dont know your taking, cause you make more of an honest effort and not try to act as they would want you to,

And as for the person who mentioned Lawful Evil, im pretty sure the Gods of Magic are only concerened about good, neutral and evil and not the other part.

One last thing. If a player is a good role player, no matter what they should play their character to that alignment and the outcome would be a Robe of the alignments color. Now as DM you could prod the mage to another color for a more interesting game, maybe to see what the mage would do, if he knew he was a good person and Nuitari chose him.
#8
XIII
Jan 22, 2004 1:17:22 I did a part of it since the Wizard who need to take it aint level 4 yet, so he went to the tower to pass his test and he was told that his test couldnt be done yet, since he iant strong enough.

But the conclave did start his test without him knowing it. The inn he was in got assaulted by horde of draconians while he and the other 5 PCs were struggling to safe their life or flee.

They fought... and at the 3rd round, the wizard casted invisibility.
He wait til he saw 2 of his companions drop dead before even casting another spell then he did his best, but all the PCs were dying around him. An Aurak draconian wanted to take him alive and so he got grappled and was hold in custody. He even saw the last PC die by the hand of a bozak. Yet he feel he did the best he could.

So far, what robe should i give him? i tend toward the red since that was selfish, still i aint sure.

When he will get to lv 4, he will pass the rest of his test.

*EDIT : Spelling errors*
#9
dr_teeth
Jan 22, 2004 13:05:04 Screams Black Robes to me. He used his magic to hide while his companions were cut down. A red robe may not rush to the aid of others, but he will help his friends.

Just my opinion.
#10
zombiegleemax
Jan 24, 2004 13:01:18 The Test of High Sorcery is always done when the aspiring magus is third level. Always. The test is divided into three parts, one part for each order, I suspect, and there are always three basic outcomes to each part of the Test. Generally speaking, the parts are past, present, and future, although there have been exceptions to that rule. I really don't know how bad third edition Dragonlance has been fragged up, and whether or not they changed the way the Test has been administered. But tradition dictates that the above be adhered to. But its your game too, so what you do is up to you.
#11
cam_banks
Jan 24, 2004 15:21:43
Originally posted by WraithXIII
I really don't know how bad third edition Dragonlance has been fragged up, and whether or not they changed the way the Test has been administered. But tradition dictates that the above be adhered to.

The Test must be conducted before the wizard is capable of casting 3rd-level spells, which are the level at which the Orders have dictated that true power becomes attained (it's when fireball and lightning bolt appear, as wel as dispel magic and other potent spells).

In 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, a wizard couldn't advance into his 4th level without taking the Test or else risk becoming a renegade. Red Robes picked up a 3rd level spell at 4th level in 1st edition (but not in 2nd edition), which is one specific breakpoint, but there really wasn't anything about 4th level magic-users that denoted any power. Raistlin was a 3rd level wizard at the beginning of Chronicles, according to earlier accounts, which means that by the rules of DLA and TotL he wasn't a full-fledged Wizard of High Sorcery yet. And yet, there he was, red robes and the Staff of Magius and everything.

Simply, it was determined that as a more significant breakpoint for wizard characters, that 3rd-level spell acquisition point made more sense. Thus it is that you can take your first level of WoHS in 3rd edition after 4 levels of wizard, and your Test will occur at some point in your 4th level.

Cheers,
Cam
#12
zombiegleemax
Jan 24, 2004 20:24:09 I generally liked the WOTC 3rd Edition DragonLance Campaign book. Since they also released a FIFTH AGE book, I wish they had kept most of the 5th Age stuff out of the books, and concentrated on the classic DL books. I also wish they have provided better maps on Ansalon BEFORE the Cataclysm.
#13
zombiegleemax
Jan 24, 2004 22:06:31 Another thing to remeber is that is that everything that has been written about the test and when to take it and what the test involves, was based on the old Conclave of High Sorcery. That organization lasted uninterupted for over 3,000 years. Things may have become set in stone simply because they had been done the same way for so long.

With the new Orders of High Sorcery, new possibilities and options open up. While we can be assured that most of the traditions will remain the same, many unique changes will be introduced to the Conclave and its members.

It is often assumed that the old organization was the perfect reflection of the gods of magic's will for the order of high sorcery on Ansalon. Like with any group though, some members may have been too eager to strictly fullfill every suggestion the gods of magic and the early wizards wrote down. Others may have been blinded to important issues while being too concerned with selfish pursuits and power.

The new orders will have a chance to rexamine their place in this new age of Krynn and reestablish their mandate as the servants of the gods of magic. As with the KoS and the KoN changes may lead to a more effective and beneficial organization.

Of course noone should discount the will of Dalamar. Unless he finds himslef back in the grave, the new orders will be as close to his vision of perfection as he can accomplish.
#14
morgion-s_claw
Jan 26, 2004 9:37:30 I wouldn't worry too much about "restriction" in the DLCS...
As I see it, a character who wants to play a i.e. LN char (and therefore tends towards the Red Robes) but behaves like an evil Blackie, well he will come out with Black Robes AND the consicence, that he really is an LE guy.... If he wants to set it back, he will have to behave accordingly and may one day switch back.

The Alignement declared by players are more their intentions and the "conscient" part of their char.... Its up to the DM to define the limits one has to respect without changing his alignment.

Shortly, if the behaviour rules him being evil, his alignment follows and no harm is done

Greets,
M's Claw
#15
zombiegleemax
Jan 28, 2004 7:19:31
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Raistlin was a 3rd level wizard at the beginning of Chronicles, according to earlier accounts, which means that by the rules of DLA and TotL he wasn't a full-fledged Wizard of High Sorcery yet. And yet, there he was, red robes and the Staff of Magius and everything.

- Cam,

Remember the idea behind Raistlin was that he took his test early (special destiny & all that). I'm sure it is stated in quite a bit of the history about this. I believe that it might be possible depending on feats and such to qualify to take the test before reaching 4th level but, will reseatch it more.
#16
cam_banks
Jan 28, 2004 9:39:02
Originally posted by kendernbabe
Remember the idea behind Raistlin was that he took his test early (special destiny & all that). I'm sure it is stated in quite a bit of the history about this. I believe that it might be possible depending on feats and such to qualify to take the test before reaching 4th level but, will reseatch it more.

That's true, but then later we learn he and Caramon undertake a number of adventures after he passes the Test and before the Companions meet back together again in Solace. So he's really ahead of the game, more so than you'd expect.

It's for this reason that my version of his character sheet at the beginning of Dragons of Autumn Twilight has him at 5th level, rather than 3rd. It also saves him from being woefully outclassed by everybody else in the group.

Cheers,
Cam
#17
Wizardman
Jan 28, 2004 17:34:47
Originally posted by Cam Banks
That's true, but then later we learn he and Caramon undertake a number of adventures after he passes the Test and before the Companions meet back together again in Solace. So he's really ahead of the game, more so than you'd expect.

It's for this reason that my version of his character sheet at the beginning of Dragons of Autumn Twilight has him at 5th level, rather than 3rd. It also saves him from being woefully outclassed by everybody else in the group.

Cheers,
Cam

I would agree, except in DoAT, Raistlin says that he is not strong enough to cast a fireball spell yet, and I would expect him to be painfully aware of both his strengths and his limitations.
#18
cam_banks
Jan 28, 2004 18:54:55
Originally posted by Wizardman
I would agree, except in DoAT, Raistlin says that he is not strong enough to cast a fireball spell yet, and I would expect him to be painfully aware of both his strengths and his limitations.

Raistlin clearly needed to find a copy of the fireball spell, then.

Cheers,
Cam
#19
Wizardman
Jan 28, 2004 19:25:05
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Raistlin clearly needed to find a copy of the fireball spell, then.

Cheers,
Cam

Yes, except that's not what he said. He said that he wasn't strong enough, not that he didn't know how. But, knowing Raistlin, he could have been lying. He may have decided to present himself as weak rather than ignorant, all the better to pull out a surprise if one was needed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 20, 2004 13:10:09	I'm planning a test for the wizard in my gaming group. Now secretly the other players will be in on the test. Basically playing their characters as conjurations of the test itself. No harm will actually happen to them. The wizard will arrive at the destination (does the test need to be done at a ToHS?) and the wizard will be instructed to rest and meditate for a couple days before taking the test, the other companions are given rooms to stay in. However that night the location will be invaded by hordes of draconians. This being the beginning of the test. They will fight hard to defend the location but they will have to fallback. The location will be set on fire and there's ancient magic tomes that the Wizard realizes are in need of rescuing. The fire is spreading fast and the draconians are moving in on there area when one of the PCs get's trapped and needs the wizards help (hadn't decided quite how yet), but the wizard will have to decide between easily rescuing the tomes or stopping and helping a friend and risking damage to the tomes. If she refuses to help one of the PCs will try to prevent her leaving and try to make/convince her to help. I don't like the DLCS's view on the tests. I plan on judging the wizard's use of her spells, her spell selection and how she reacts to an injured friend in need. Here's how I figure out the robes: -White Robes: Defensive spell use, avoids causing direct harm, and helps friend without need of convincing -Red Robes: Defensive spell use, causes direct harm when useful, and needs convincing to help friend versus leaving the fire with the tomes. -Black Robes: Focuses on getting out of there with the tomes and no concern of friends safety. Would use them as a speed bump to the draconians if she can get out safely. I don't want several little tests because I want the wizard to not even realize the test has occured until it's over. Thanks!
#2 XIII Jan 20, 2004 18:05:31	I do like your idea. My Wizard player is only lv 3 but he went to find the tower and so, he found it, but since he cant do his test yet (at least thats what he is told) he will be told by a WoHS when to take the test. My idea was to make the other players participate in it by being there and turning on the Wizard... But there, you have a point. I might try to inn's idea that should cover a good part of the test, the rest he shall do at lv 4 =) XIII.
#3 drachasor Jan 20, 2004 23:28:58	Hmm...what about a Lawful Evil wizard? They might have loyalty to their friends even though they are selfish. I don't think your system accounts for this. Also, a neutral would probably help his friends (neutrals tend to help friends and family), but would be more hesitant about helping a stranger (as would anyone of evil alignment). Hmm, in my mind: Good: Helps friends/strangers, rescues books as best they can. Willing to die to ensure the books survive. Neutral: Helps friends....helps strangers with convincing (or if there is something encouraging them to help...such as a lonely male helping a fair damsel). Also willing to sacrifice life to ensure the survival of the magical texts. If the he can quickly proposition strangers, might insist that they help with rescuing the texts if they are to be freed (this is treading the line between neutral and evil though). Evil: Might help friends (depending on individual differences). Won't help strangers unless it is easy to get them to help with the rescue of the books (both easy to ask and easy to get an answer). Since time is valuable they probbably won't spend much time talknig their friends out of helping strangers though (if the wizard is smart). Far less inclined to die for the texts....a choice between their life and the books would be their life....a choice between their life and the books...or just the books surviving would result in the books surviving. That's the breakdown as best I see. -Drachasor
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 8:59:14	I will have to change some of the stuff. I like your ideas. If a player is currently neutral and performs worthy of a black robe that would have to change their alignment right?
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 10:06:24	Technicaly from a rules perspective, kinda. The alignment restrictions on the WoHS are one of my biggest complaints. I believe the test and how you behave during it shuld determine your robe color, while the rules go strait to alignment for robe color regardles of how the test went. Basicly my problem is that it overlooks the fact that alignment is only a general indicator, and that a good person could act evil every once in a while, like say when its something they passionatly care about and realy want to pass (the test).
#6 drachasor Jan 21, 2004 10:42:51	Originally posted by Halabis Technicaly from a rules perspective, kinda. The alignment restrictions on the WoHS are one of my biggest complaints. I believe the test and how you behave during it shuld determine your robe color, while the rules go strait to alignment for robe color regardles of how the test went. Basicly my problem is that it overlooks the fact that alignment is only a general indicator, and that a good person could act evil every once in a while, like say when its something they passionatly care about and realy want to pass (the test). It's rather hard to make the proper test environment in a game though. The test is supposed to overcome any such factors or intentions by the taker and get straight to their heart and soul regarding alignment and magic. A tall order to fill for a DM. -Drachasor
#7 dr_teeth Jan 22, 2004 0:16:09	I think its a great idea for the Test. The best tests are the ones you dont know your taking, cause you make more of an honest effort and not try to act as they would want you to, And as for the person who mentioned Lawful Evil, im pretty sure the Gods of Magic are only concerened about good, neutral and evil and not the other part. One last thing. If a player is a good role player, no matter what they should play their character to that alignment and the outcome would be a Robe of the alignments color. Now as DM you could prod the mage to another color for a more interesting game, maybe to see what the mage would do, if he knew he was a good person and Nuitari chose him.
#8 XIII Jan 22, 2004 1:17:22	I did a part of it since the Wizard who need to take it aint level 4 yet, so he went to the tower to pass his test and he was told that his test couldnt be done yet, since he iant strong enough. But the conclave did start his test without him knowing it. The inn he was in got assaulted by horde of draconians while he and the other 5 PCs were struggling to safe their life or flee. They fought... and at the 3rd round, the wizard casted invisibility. He wait til he saw 2 of his companions drop dead before even casting another spell then he did his best, but all the PCs were dying around him. An Aurak draconian wanted to take him alive and so he got grappled and was hold in custody. He even saw the last PC die by the hand of a bozak. Yet he feel he did the best he could. So far, what robe should i give him? i tend toward the red since that was selfish, still i aint sure. When he will get to lv 4, he will pass the rest of his test. EDIT : Spelling errors
#9 dr_teeth Jan 22, 2004 13:05:04	Screams Black Robes to me. He used his magic to hide while his companions were cut down. A red robe may not rush to the aid of others, but he will help his friends. Just my opinion.
#10 zombiegleemax Jan 24, 2004 13:01:18	The Test of High Sorcery is always done when the aspiring magus is third level. Always. The test is divided into three parts, one part for each order, I suspect, and there are always three basic outcomes to each part of the Test. Generally speaking, the parts are past, present, and future, although there have been exceptions to that rule. I really don't know how bad third edition Dragonlance has been fragged up, and whether or not they changed the way the Test has been administered. But tradition dictates that the above be adhered to. But its your game too, so what you do is up to you.
#11 cam_banks Jan 24, 2004 15:21:43	Originally posted by WraithXIII I really don't know how bad third edition Dragonlance has been fragged up, and whether or not they changed the way the Test has been administered. But tradition dictates that the above be adhered to. The Test must be conducted before the wizard is capable of casting 3rd-level spells, which are the level at which the Orders have dictated that true power becomes attained (it's when fireball and lightning bolt appear, as wel as dispel magic and other potent spells). In 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, a wizard couldn't advance into his 4th level without taking the Test or else risk becoming a renegade. Red Robes picked up a 3rd level spell at 4th level in 1st edition (but not in 2nd edition), which is one specific breakpoint, but there really wasn't anything about 4th level magic-users that denoted any power. Raistlin was a 3rd level wizard at the beginning of Chronicles, according to earlier accounts, which means that by the rules of DLA and TotL he wasn't a full-fledged Wizard of High Sorcery yet. And yet, there he was, red robes and the Staff of Magius and everything. Simply, it was determined that as a more significant breakpoint for wizard characters, that 3rd-level spell acquisition point made more sense. Thus it is that you can take your first level of WoHS in 3rd edition after 4 levels of wizard, and your Test will occur at some point in your 4th level. Cheers, Cam
#12 zombiegleemax Jan 24, 2004 20:24:09	I generally liked the WOTC 3rd Edition DragonLance Campaign book. Since they also released a FIFTH AGE book, I wish they had kept most of the 5th Age stuff out of the books, and concentrated on the classic DL books. I also wish they have provided better maps on Ansalon BEFORE the Cataclysm.
#13 zombiegleemax Jan 24, 2004 22:06:31	Another thing to remeber is that is that everything that has been written about the test and when to take it and what the test involves, was based on the old Conclave of High Sorcery. That organization lasted uninterupted for over 3,000 years. Things may have become set in stone simply because they had been done the same way for so long. With the new Orders of High Sorcery, new possibilities and options open up. While we can be assured that most of the traditions will remain the same, many unique changes will be introduced to the Conclave and its members. It is often assumed that the old organization was the perfect reflection of the gods of magic's will for the order of high sorcery on Ansalon. Like with any group though, some members may have been too eager to strictly fullfill every suggestion the gods of magic and the early wizards wrote down. Others may have been blinded to important issues while being too concerned with selfish pursuits and power. The new orders will have a chance to rexamine their place in this new age of Krynn and reestablish their mandate as the servants of the gods of magic. As with the KoS and the KoN changes may lead to a more effective and beneficial organization. Of course noone should discount the will of Dalamar. Unless he finds himslef back in the grave, the new orders will be as close to his vision of perfection as he can accomplish.
#14 morgion-s_claw Jan 26, 2004 9:37:30	I wouldn't worry too much about "restriction" in the DLCS... As I see it, a character who wants to play a i.e. LN char (and therefore tends towards the Red Robes) but behaves like an evil Blackie, well he will come out with Black Robes AND the consicence, that he really is an LE guy.... If he wants to set it back, he will have to behave accordingly and may one day switch back. The Alignement declared by players are more their intentions and the "conscient" part of their char.... Its up to the DM to define the limits one has to respect without changing his alignment. Shortly, if the behaviour rules him being evil, his alignment follows and no harm is done Greets, M's Claw
#15 zombiegleemax Jan 28, 2004 7:19:31	Originally posted by Cam Banks Raistlin was a 3rd level wizard at the beginning of Chronicles, according to earlier accounts, which means that by the rules of DLA and TotL he wasn't a full-fledged Wizard of High Sorcery yet. And yet, there he was, red robes and the Staff of Magius and everything. - Cam, Remember the idea behind Raistlin was that he took his test early (special destiny & all that). I'm sure it is stated in quite a bit of the history about this. I believe that it might be possible depending on feats and such to qualify to take the test before reaching 4th level but, will reseatch it more.
#16 cam_banks Jan 28, 2004 9:39:02	Originally posted by kendernbabe Remember the idea behind Raistlin was that he took his test early (special destiny & all that). I'm sure it is stated in quite a bit of the history about this. I believe that it might be possible depending on feats and such to qualify to take the test before reaching 4th level but, will reseatch it more. That's true, but then later we learn he and Caramon undertake a number of adventures after he passes the Test and before the Companions meet back together again in Solace. So he's really ahead of the game, more so than you'd expect. It's for this reason that my version of his character sheet at the beginning of Dragons of Autumn Twilight has him at 5th level, rather than 3rd. It also saves him from being woefully outclassed by everybody else in the group. Cheers, Cam
#17 Wizardman Jan 28, 2004 17:34:47	Originally posted by Cam Banks That's true, but then later we learn he and Caramon undertake a number of adventures after he passes the Test and before the Companions meet back together again in Solace. So he's really ahead of the game, more so than you'd expect. It's for this reason that my version of his character sheet at the beginning of Dragons of Autumn Twilight has him at 5th level, rather than 3rd. It also saves him from being woefully outclassed by everybody else in the group. Cheers, Cam I would agree, except in DoAT, Raistlin says that he is not strong enough to cast a fireball spell yet, and I would expect him to be painfully aware of both his strengths and his limitations.
#18 cam_banks Jan 28, 2004 18:54:55	Originally posted by Wizardman I would agree, except in DoAT, Raistlin says that he is not strong enough to cast a fireball spell yet, and I would expect him to be painfully aware of both his strengths and his limitations. Raistlin clearly needed to find a copy of the fireball spell, then. Cheers, Cam
#19 Wizardman Jan 28, 2004 19:25:05	Originally posted by Cam Banks Raistlin clearly needed to find a copy of the fireball spell, then. Cheers, Cam Yes, except that's not what he said. He said that he wasn't strong enough, not that he didn't know how. But, knowing Raistlin, he could have been lying. He may have decided to present himself as weak rather than ignorant, all the better to pull out a surprise if one was needed.