Primes and summoning spells among other things - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Primes and summoning spells among other things

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bonemage
Jan 20, 2004 23:21:59 I just read somewhere in the Basic boxed set or the Planewalker Handbook that primes cannot be the target of a summoning spell. Has this ever been explained anywhere in a bit more detail why this is the case or speculated on?

Furthermore I assume they can still be banished or have other such spells affect them when they are not on the prime. Is this correct or are they immune to these spells as well?

Also if a character has any relative that was plane touched are they also or can this eventually be spread out? I mean if 40 generations ago you had a fiend in your lineage are you still plane touched?
#2
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 0:14:48 I think the rule of thumb is simply that only planars can be the target of summoning spells (eg. summon monster I-IX, (lesser) planar ally, etc.) while spells that send creatures "home" (eg. banishment, etc.) work on any creature currently possessing the extraplanar descriptor (ie, not currently on his home plane).

Planetouched is your call as DM. Personally, I'd expect fiendish blood to peter out after forty (or even just four) generations of dilution with pure human blood, but you never know.
#3
bonemage
Jan 21, 2004 0:29:05 Actually I just read that Teiflings are at least that far removed from their fiendish heritage. It said that if they were any closer than 2 or 3 or maybe it was 3 or 4 generations they would have more features of fiends than they do. It didn't have any kind of a bottom level though...
#4
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 1:41:38 Well, one could make silly arguments based on genetics, but such arguments mean little when you can just say "fiends' blood is magic!" It really is just up to the DM.
#5
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 3:40:35 Also, the power of the fiend may come into play. It would make sense that something like a pit fiend would have a stronger effect on the bloodline than an abishai. Somehow, I doubt the hard science of genetics has much to do with it, when you're dealing with a setting based on philosophy, and creatures that are literally made of evil. I doubt there's a gene for the philisopical concept of evil given form.
#6
bonemage
Jan 21, 2004 11:13:02 That's true and I know nothing has been published about it. I guess I was just kinda looking for other peoples thoughts on it and how they have run it in their games. For that matter if it has even come up in a game or if you have ever thought about it.
#7
factol_rhys_dup
Jan 21, 2004 17:12:37 The way I thought of it, summoning spells target an appropriate outer plane. If someone wanted to create a spell which targeted the Prime, I'd let them do it. According to that logic (which may or may not be correct), a tiefling could be a target assuming that he was a planar. A prime tiefer could not. To me, it just makes more sense to think of it the same way that banishment works.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 21:28:09 This brings up an interesting question, actually. It's known that rilmani can't be summoned or contacted with spells like summon monster, planar ally, gate, blahblahblah. Do you suppose that rilmani are also immune to banishment and similar spells?
#9
sildatorak
Jan 22, 2004 20:55:23 I would say that the rilmani are immune to summoning/contact simply because of location. A rilmani on Ysgard could still get banished easily enough without the Outlands' rings interferring with the spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bonemage Jan 20, 2004 23:21:59	I just read somewhere in the Basic boxed set or the Planewalker Handbook that primes cannot be the target of a summoning spell. Has this ever been explained anywhere in a bit more detail why this is the case or speculated on? Furthermore I assume they can still be banished or have other such spells affect them when they are not on the prime. Is this correct or are they immune to these spells as well? Also if a character has any relative that was plane touched are they also or can this eventually be spread out? I mean if 40 generations ago you had a fiend in your lineage are you still plane touched?
#2 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 0:14:48	I think the rule of thumb is simply that only planars can be the target of summoning spells (eg. summon monster I-IX, (lesser) planar ally, etc.) while spells that send creatures "home" (eg. banishment, etc.) work on any creature currently possessing the extraplanar descriptor (ie, not currently on his home plane). Planetouched is your call as DM. Personally, I'd expect fiendish blood to peter out after forty (or even just four) generations of dilution with pure human blood, but you never know.
#3 bonemage Jan 21, 2004 0:29:05	Actually I just read that Teiflings are at least that far removed from their fiendish heritage. It said that if they were any closer than 2 or 3 or maybe it was 3 or 4 generations they would have more features of fiends than they do. It didn't have any kind of a bottom level though...
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 1:41:38	Well, one could make silly arguments based on genetics, but such arguments mean little when you can just say "fiends' blood is magic!" It really is just up to the DM.
#5 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 3:40:35	Also, the power of the fiend may come into play. It would make sense that something like a pit fiend would have a stronger effect on the bloodline than an abishai. Somehow, I doubt the hard science of genetics has much to do with it, when you're dealing with a setting based on philosophy, and creatures that are literally made of evil. I doubt there's a gene for the philisopical concept of evil given form.
#6 bonemage Jan 21, 2004 11:13:02	That's true and I know nothing has been published about it. I guess I was just kinda looking for other peoples thoughts on it and how they have run it in their games. For that matter if it has even come up in a game or if you have ever thought about it.
#7 factol_rhys_dup Jan 21, 2004 17:12:37	The way I thought of it, summoning spells target an appropriate outer plane. If someone wanted to create a spell which targeted the Prime, I'd let them do it. According to that logic (which may or may not be correct), a tiefling could be a target assuming that he was a planar. A prime tiefer could not. To me, it just makes more sense to think of it the same way that banishment works.
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 21:28:09	This brings up an interesting question, actually. It's known that rilmani can't be summoned or contacted with spells like summon monster, planar ally, gate, blahblahblah. Do you suppose that rilmani are also immune to banishment and similar spells?
#9 sildatorak Jan 22, 2004 20:55:23	I would say that the rilmani are immune to summoning/contact simply because of location. A rilmani on Ysgard could still get banished easily enough without the Outlands' rings interferring with the spell.