The Cathezaar - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The Cathezaar

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 11:57:56 In "Bastion of Broken Souls" there is a creature who is half demon-half devil, called the Cathezaar (I think that's how you spell it). It's one of Demogorgon's head's main servants. Question is how can you get a half demon/devil (I think it's a half Marilith/Kyton).

Suggestions?
#2
MephitJames
Jan 21, 2004 14:40:12 Do you mean how can you get the offspring? Or how would a DM design something like that?
There's another thread going on about half-breeds that makes a lot about polymorphed lovers (a agathinon and erinyes are the example) but I wouldn't dismiss a terrible conspiracy to create such a powerful paring (yugoloths, baernoloths, or a deity like Loki are top on my list).
As for DM options, I'd apply the Anarchist template from MotP to a baatezu or the Axiomatic template to a tanar'ri. This would probably necessitate removing the Law/Chaos type from the base creature. You could also apply the Half-Fiend template to something and then the Anarchist/Axiomatic template to color it towards tanar'ri/baatezu parentage. Or else you could make a whole new race with a mixture of characteristics, in which case keep your DMG handy opened to the creating new monsters section.
#3
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 21:50:50 No, I mean in game reasons. A fiend and a celestial I can see, but a baatezu and a tanar'ri? An offspring from two enemies who have hated each other since the dawn of existence?
#4
zombiegleemax
Jan 21, 2004 22:02:03 Magical compulsion. Magical breeding. True love (hey,d on't laugh, it happens.)
#5
ranaghast
Jan 22, 2004 7:12:10 hey. isn't there an adventure in "well of worlds" called love letter that describes a love affair between a demon and a devil?
#6
Ornum
Jan 22, 2004 14:52:39
Originally posted by Mephit James
There's another thread going on about half-breeds that makes a lot about polymorphed lovers (a agathinon and erinyes are the example) but I wouldn't dismiss a terrible conspiracy to create such a powerful paring (yugoloths, baernoloths, or a deity like Loki are top on my list).

I thought that baatezu females were unable to bear children. I think that I read that somewhere such as Faces of Evil.
#7
kuje31
Jan 22, 2004 14:57:39
Originally posted by Ranaghast
hey. isn't there an adventure in "well of worlds" called love letter that describes a love affair between a demon and a devil?

Yes. Yes there is.
#8
zombiegleemax
Jan 22, 2004 18:47:04 The offspring of a Baatezu and Tanar'ri(Tanarezu?) would most likely be Neutral Evil in Alignment(unless it's parents were "Risen" fiends, in that case any alignment is applicable), and would have features(Like wings, horns etc) resembling a cross between the two parent fiends.

Such a hybrid would be powerful indeed, as it would have all the strengths of both species, and none of its weaknesses
#9
zombiegleemax
Jan 22, 2004 18:49:50 Pure gaming and TV logic.

For all we know the offspring would have all of the weaknesses of the parents and few of the benefits.
#10
zombiegleemax
Jan 22, 2004 18:52:58 Well, yes, you are correct your most orderly-ness, but what fun would a hybrid creature be if It had only its parent's weaknesses?(besides comic relief)
#11
zombiegleemax
Jan 22, 2004 20:58:02
what fun would a hybrid creature be if It had only its parent's weaknesses?(besides comic relief)

Sometimes, that's all you really need. Why do you think they have mephits? (no offense to James).
#12
factol_rhys_dup
Jan 22, 2004 22:44:56 I haven't heard of this creature before, but it's entirely possible that a tanar'ri and a baatezu could be lovers and have a child. I mean, it's exceptionally unlikely, to provide a huge understatement, but if there's even the slightest possibility of it occurring, and then the infinite number of tanar'ri and the practically infinite number of baatezu, statistically, it'll happen eventually.
#13
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 22, 2004 23:06:28 "I don't know what you'd call them, but they sure do SQUEEL when you poke them with branding irons!"

*claps hands together*

"At least the ones we had brewing on one layer of Khin-Oin a few thousand years ago did. Mostly vain curiousity, and to see the parent's reactions to the forced breeding both when done openly and when one or both partners were glamered or polymorphed into other races. And as far as vain curiousity goes, I have that in abundance!"

*preens*

"The offspring had some problems, and a short lifespan generally. The mix of alignment taint had some unpredictable effects."
#14
zombiegleemax
Jan 23, 2004 0:47:56 Recrossed, I'd think the hybrid would have been a Yugoloth now that I think about it.
#15
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Jan 23, 2004 0:59:45 Unlikely given the legends that the original Baatezu and Tanar'ri were created from the flaws and taint of law and chaos within the original Yugoloths. They took that leftover waste from their own essence and shunted it off into early larvae on the Gray Waste and then exiled the ones with law to Baator and the ones with chaos to the Abyss.

Given that I think we can presume that the newly created Baatezu then came into conflict with the original Ancient Baatorians. But the timescale is largely unknown and there's really no sources from this time period aside from the records kept by the 'loths.
#16
MephitJames
Jan 23, 2004 13:50:35
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Sometimes, that's all you really need. Why do you think they have mephits? (no offense to James).

Fristly, touché. I'd be willing to verbally/nonverbally spar about the glorious mephits another time. Secondly, weaknesses make the multiverse fun. If planeborn were untouchable, there'd be no way to skin them for rain-coats, etc. Were this cross-breed idea ever brought about, I'd sure as Hells hope it had weaknesses. (OOC: Creatures should have weaknesses so that PCs can use their heads. Planescape in particular out of all RPGs is about creativity. I'd want weaknesses to ensure that the PCs can defeat it with brains as well as hack 'n' slash.)
#17
sildatorak
Jan 24, 2004 13:08:57 I would think a tanarazu would be neutral evil, but would be completely insane from it. I think they'd be neutral in a simultaneously lawful/chaotic kind of way rather than neither.
#18
zombiegleemax
Jan 25, 2004 21:56:33 Even more intrigueing would be a creature that contains the genetic information(and essences) from every creature in the multiverse, that includes Prime, Demiplane, and Inner Planar, not just Outer Planar.
#19
factol_rhys_dup
Jan 25, 2004 22:15:56 What if the now delightfully-nicknamed "tanarazu" were to have both the [Chaotic] and [Lawful] descriptors, in addition to [Evil]?
#20
zombiegleemax
Jan 25, 2004 22:19:35 Basically you get a bunch of Demonic Aldolf Hitler's with a Hannibal Lectur mentality.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 11:57:56	In "Bastion of Broken Souls" there is a creature who is half demon-half devil, called the Cathezaar (I think that's how you spell it). It's one of Demogorgon's head's main servants. Question is how can you get a half demon/devil (I think it's a half Marilith/Kyton). Suggestions?
#2 MephitJames Jan 21, 2004 14:40:12	Do you mean how can you get the offspring? Or how would a DM design something like that? There's another thread going on about half-breeds that makes a lot about polymorphed lovers (a agathinon and erinyes are the example) but I wouldn't dismiss a terrible conspiracy to create such a powerful paring (yugoloths, baernoloths, or a deity like Loki are top on my list). As for DM options, I'd apply the Anarchist template from MotP to a baatezu or the Axiomatic template to a tanar'ri. This would probably necessitate removing the Law/Chaos type from the base creature. You could also apply the Half-Fiend template to something and then the Anarchist/Axiomatic template to color it towards tanar'ri/baatezu parentage. Or else you could make a whole new race with a mixture of characteristics, in which case keep your DMG handy opened to the creating new monsters section.
#3 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 21:50:50	No, I mean in game reasons. A fiend and a celestial I can see, but a baatezu and a tanar'ri? An offspring from two enemies who have hated each other since the dawn of existence?
#4 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2004 22:02:03	Magical compulsion. Magical breeding. True love (hey,d on't laugh, it happens.)
#5 ranaghast Jan 22, 2004 7:12:10	hey. isn't there an adventure in "well of worlds" called love letter that describes a love affair between a demon and a devil?
#6 Ornum Jan 22, 2004 14:52:39	Originally posted by Mephit James There's another thread going on about half-breeds that makes a lot about polymorphed lovers (a agathinon and erinyes are the example) but I wouldn't dismiss a terrible conspiracy to create such a powerful paring (yugoloths, baernoloths, or a deity like Loki are top on my list). I thought that baatezu females were unable to bear children. I think that I read that somewhere such as Faces of Evil.
#7 kuje31 Jan 22, 2004 14:57:39	Originally posted by Ranaghast hey. isn't there an adventure in "well of worlds" called love letter that describes a love affair between a demon and a devil? Yes. Yes there is.
#8 zombiegleemax Jan 22, 2004 18:47:04	The offspring of a Baatezu and Tanar'ri(Tanarezu?) would most likely be Neutral Evil in Alignment(unless it's parents were "Risen" fiends, in that case any alignment is applicable), and would have features(Like wings, horns etc) resembling a cross between the two parent fiends. Such a hybrid would be powerful indeed, as it would have all the strengths of both species, and none of its weaknesses
#9 zombiegleemax Jan 22, 2004 18:49:50	Pure gaming and TV logic. For all we know the offspring would have all of the weaknesses of the parents and few of the benefits.
#10 zombiegleemax Jan 22, 2004 18:52:58	Well, yes, you are correct your most orderly-ness, but what fun would a hybrid creature be if It had only its parent's weaknesses?(besides comic relief)
#11 zombiegleemax Jan 22, 2004 20:58:02	what fun would a hybrid creature be if It had only its parent's weaknesses?(besides comic relief) Sometimes, that's all you really need. Why do you think they have mephits? (no offense to James).
#12 factol_rhys_dup Jan 22, 2004 22:44:56	I haven't heard of this creature before, but it's entirely possible that a tanar'ri and a baatezu could be lovers and have a child. I mean, it's exceptionally unlikely, to provide a huge understatement, but if there's even the slightest possibility of it occurring, and then the infinite number of tanar'ri and the practically infinite number of baatezu, statistically, it'll happen eventually.
#13 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 22, 2004 23:06:28	"I don't know what you'd call them, but they sure do SQUEEL when you poke them with branding irons!" claps hands together "At least the ones we had brewing on one layer of Khin-Oin a few thousand years ago did. Mostly vain curiousity, and to see the parent's reactions to the forced breeding both when done openly and when one or both partners were glamered or polymorphed into other races. And as far as vain curiousity goes, I have that in abundance!" preens "The offspring had some problems, and a short lifespan generally. The mix of alignment taint had some unpredictable effects."
#14 zombiegleemax Jan 23, 2004 0:47:56	Recrossed, I'd think the hybrid would have been a Yugoloth now that I think about it.
#15 Shemeska_the_Marauder Jan 23, 2004 0:59:45	Unlikely given the legends that the original Baatezu and Tanar'ri were created from the flaws and taint of law and chaos within the original Yugoloths. They took that leftover waste from their own essence and shunted it off into early larvae on the Gray Waste and then exiled the ones with law to Baator and the ones with chaos to the Abyss. Given that I think we can presume that the newly created Baatezu then came into conflict with the original Ancient Baatorians. But the timescale is largely unknown and there's really no sources from this time period aside from the records kept by the 'loths.
#16 MephitJames Jan 23, 2004 13:50:35	Originally posted by Mach2.5 Sometimes, that's all you really need. Why do you think they have mephits? (no offense to James). Fristly, touché. I'd be willing to verbally/nonverbally spar about the glorious mephits another time. Secondly, weaknesses make the multiverse fun. If planeborn were untouchable, there'd be no way to skin them for rain-coats, etc. Were this cross-breed idea ever brought about, I'd sure as Hells hope it had weaknesses. (OOC: Creatures should have weaknesses so that PCs can use their heads. Planescape in particular out of all RPGs is about creativity. I'd want weaknesses to ensure that the PCs can defeat it with brains as well as hack 'n' slash.)
#17 sildatorak Jan 24, 2004 13:08:57	I would think a tanarazu would be neutral evil, but would be completely insane from it. I think they'd be neutral in a simultaneously lawful/chaotic kind of way rather than neither.
#18 zombiegleemax Jan 25, 2004 21:56:33	Even more intrigueing would be a creature that contains the genetic information(and essences) from every creature in the multiverse, that includes Prime, Demiplane, and Inner Planar, not just Outer Planar.
#19 factol_rhys_dup Jan 25, 2004 22:15:56	What if the now delightfully-nicknamed "tanarazu" were to have both the [Chaotic] and [Lawful] descriptors, in addition to [Evil]?
#20 zombiegleemax Jan 25, 2004 22:19:35	Basically you get a bunch of Demonic Aldolf Hitler's with a Hannibal Lectur mentality.