For example, OJ1 indicates Slerotin perished in a magical blast that created Rift Canyon. But, Living Greyhawk Gazetteer tells that Slerotin died "... in a thunderclap that levels the surrounding trees ... pointing toward the northeast ..." (© 2003, WotC, pg 64). The latter suggests the Zolites were in (present day) Yeomanry - far from Rift Canyon.
Anyway, do we rely on Wilson's work? If yes, to what extent? If no, why not?
Steve got alot of that stuff from Len Lakofka, who was the "suel expert" from the original Greyhawk world when Gygax was at TSR. Steve then took a whole buncha stuff from his own campaign, blenderised it with Len's, and didn't differentiate between the two. He also ignored alot of previous "canon", whatever that means anymore, and even mispelled Suel in the first version.
Well, I don't use it, but more and more other people are, and then submitting things to Dragon or the Living Greyhawk campaign, making it more canon than before.
Halber
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/tamerlain/Greyhawk/GreyChrondex41.html
Originally posted by Greyson
So, what is the deal with Oerik's history as written by Steve Wilson in Oerth Journal 1? Is it a reliable source of information? I notice that some of the dates, events, etc. conflict with later, commonly held "canon."
For example, OJ1 indicates Slerotin perished in a magical blast that created Rift Canyon. But, Living Greyhawk Gazetteer tells that Slerotin died "... in a thunderclap that levels the surrounding trees ... pointing toward the northeast ..." (© 2003, WotC, pg 64). The latter suggests the Zolites were in (present day) Yeomanry - far from Rift Canyon.
Anyway, do we rely on Wilson's work? If yes, to what extent? If no, why not?
As far as I know, Steve's timeline was the result of some collaboration with Len Lakofka, so IMO it can be considered somewhat apocryphal, that is, it's fair game for being considered canon except where actual published material, such as the fate of Slerotin, contradicts it.
While Slerotin is indeed a major historical figure in my game, I dislike using him as the 'god in the machine' explanation for too much. There's surely better stories to be dug up from hints in canon about how the Rift Canyon came to be, and the fate of Slerotin as suggested in LGG suits me much better.
OTOH, in areas where Steve and Len were blazing uncharted ground, such as the history of the primagrations empires, they had some cool ideas that should surely be at least considered as possible canon.
Wilson's OJ#1 timeline is Suel-intensive - and I'm okay with that. But, my favorite part of that particular piece is his portrayal of Vecna's war with the elves in the Flanaess.
Anyway, I was looking for some other insights regarding Wilson's timeline. TY, peeps.
The history in OJ1 was never meant to be canon. It was an attempt to make a unified history out of the many threads of the 'hawk that existed, much of it was based on "canon" much was my own fancy, and from my own campaign. Obviously, I took Len's work (and Frank's) and put it to use as well. I considered it an honor that old TSR folk were willing to get involved with the Journal and with the Council of Greyhawk (I still do, without their help, Greyhawk might not have come back).
As for the OJ1 article, I wrote it primarily so that the OJ1 would have something in it. I was under intense time pressure to get something out, and we didn't have any material!
Some pieces of the OJ 1 article have achieved near canon status, at least from a use point. A lot of people call the un-named fourth continent "Ana-keri" or some variation of that name, now. Other things have trickled in too. One interesting thing is that my Vecna material was completely rejected by other now notable Greyhawkians! I was just trying to unify the history a bit. Erik and Gary (and others) hated it! Ah well.
As for the GreyChrondex...well, it *is* canon, kind've. All of its sources are drawn from TSR/WotC material (or approved as canonical material at the time of publication). Team Greyhawk used it as a chronology to help with its tasks, and I expanded it after that group dissolved. It is not meant to be a hi"story" but rather a Chronology. Histories can be developed from it, no doubt.
Hope this helps!
Steve Wilson, aka "Tamerlain"
co-founder, Council of Greyhawk
first editor of the Oerth Journal
member, Team Greyhawk 1997-200 or something like that.
Thanks for the comments and clarification, Steve. I think your OJ1 piece serves its purpose well given your remarks above - time constraints, fleshing out OJ1, etc.
D'oh! Holian and Mona "hated" the Vecna treatment? Ah, man. As I noted above, that's my favorite part of that timeline. Has anyone else commented on that particular Vecna treatment? I think it gives a unique and profound spin to the Whispered One.
Whatever personal takes individuals have associated with the OJ1 article, I think it is yet another good source of alternate information and potential historical perspective. I just wanted to know how that particular timeline fit in with other Greyhawk works. And that has been answered abundantly well. Thanks again.
Originally posted by Steve Wilson
Heya Halber! I haven't been smacked in the head by you since the AOL days! ;)
Hi Steve. Well, it's kinda like that Morrissey song.."we all hate it when our freinds become famous". No hard feelings I hope.
Halber
Hi Steve. Well, it's kinda like that Morrissey song.."we all hate it when our freinds become famous". No hard feelings I hope.
Halberkill, none at all! Honestly, if I had that thing to do over again, I'm not sure I would touch it with a ten foot pole. It caused way to much uproar!
Greyson,
As for Vecna...I kind've did like that part. Erik wanted him out west though, and didn't want him to be an "uber-villain."
As for me, there is a pattern of Uber-villains in the 'hawk from my P.O.V. Tharizdun, Iuz, the Ivid Family Robinson, Vecna...So, I tied him in with the Ur-Flan. Ah well. All was not lost though, I did get to help tie Keraptis into a battle with an Ur-Flan druid (although he is not quite called that in the final product). So I don't feel too bad...
Steve
I personally hate Vecna Lives, Die Vecna Die, Return of the Eight etc. That whole line of modules left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.
Vecna makes much more sense to me as an evil uber being far in the past who became a god. An abject lesson for the Flan and not a common day threat to slap around the Circle of Eight.
But hey everybody has an opinion.
My favorite part is the history of the Suel Binders and my last two campaigns have centered around them. It was kind of fun trying to trace their movement across the Flanaess and decide who had what.
In my conception of things, the cult of Tharizdun is trying to gather them all together to create the Greater Elemental Crown, in which the Binders will serve as crown jewels. The Lesser Binders have begun moving toward the Temple of Elemental Evil in an effort to rejoin with Etheresra (sp?), much like the one ring tried to rejoin with Sauron!
Steve's timeline has given me (1) the underlying idea behind my campaign and (2) enough historical detail to make it all make sense to my players as they discover the pieces of the puzzle.
I exploit conflicts between the OJ timeline and canon material in a way someone else suggested, as people's history, or even another historian's version of history, versus some other scholars, because not everyone interprets history the same way, and not everyone records history "accurately."