Planar reworking of the gods - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Planar reworking of the gods

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Jan 29, 2004 11:20:01 Okay, here's what's going on: since Dragonlance will be the only campaign setting I will run from now on (and thus, it is the only Prime Material world that exists in my game), I want to rework the abodes of the gods and the outer planes at large. The Cosmology of Krynn given in the DLCS is somewhat replaced by the Great Wheel cosmology of D&D; now the Dome of Creation is merely a collective term for the Upper Planes, the Abyss is a catch-all phrase for the Lower Planes, etc.
Basically, since the Krynnish pantheon are the only gods in the gameworld, I feel that they should spread out more and be the rulers (or co-rulers, in some cases) of their own planes on the Outer Planes. The Inner Planes are held in common, meaning every god can make use of their energies and no god rules them. The Transitive Planes fall under the respective domains of the gods of magic. Anyway, here's what I have so far. Suggestions and comments are appreciated.
Paladine rules Celestia. The Heptobomad (described in The Book of Exalted Deeds) serve him, as does Loralon (LG male Silvanesti Cleric 20/Divine Agent 10/Hierophant 5), greatest of the elven clerics. Paladine's personal domain, the true Dome of Creation, rests in Chronias, the highest layer.
Mishakal rules Elysium. Guardinal Prince Talisid and his Companions (described in The Book of Exalted Deeds) serve her. Her domain, The Healer's Home, is located in Amoria.
Majere rules Arcadia. His domain, The Temple of True Light, is on the layer of Buxenus. The Storm Kings of Arcadia (four demigods with power over the weather of the entire plane) serve him.
Kiri-Jolith rules Ysgard. His domain, The Heart of Justice, is located on the first layer. Kiri-Jolith is served by no creatures of distinction (I could find no reference for any, and I'm having trouble making any up), although his plane is populated by powerful celestial individuals such as solar angels, saints, once-mortal Knights of the Sword, lammasu, shedu, etc.
Habbakuk rules the Beastlands. His domain, The Falls of the Phoenix, rests in Krigala. The Animal Lords (demigods who are the perfect representatives of each specie of animal) serve him.
Branchala rules Arborea. All Titans (described in the MM), which can be found only on this plane of existence, serve him. His domain, The Soul of Music, is located in Olympus/Arvandor. A trio of Titans (each with epic bard levels) known as The Spellsong Three, serve him.
Solinari marginally rules Bytopia, and also rules the Astral Plane. His domain, The Tower of Good Magic, resides in the Astral Plane. He is served by a mysterious group of once-mortal celestial White Robe wizards known as The Empyreal Seven (Par-Salian (LG male human Wizard 10/White Robe 10/Archmage 5) is rumored to be one of their number).
Gilean rules the Outlands. His domain is the Library of All Knowledge, which is located at the top of the Spire. Sigil, the City of Doors, doesn't exist (nor does the Lady of Pain). A quintet of powerful rilmani, each with various levels of bard, expert, diviner, and loremaster levels, known as the The Five of the Book, serve him.
Lunitari rules the Ethereal Plane. Her domain is The Citadel of Neutral Magic. A group of mysterious once-mortal Red Robes known as The Circle of Eight serve her (*lol* That was a Greyhawk reference, and yes, those eight mages plus Mordenkainen (N male human Wizard 20/Red Robe 7) do serve her (although they're much more powerful than previously detailed. So, for all those Krynnish mages who wondered, "Who was Nystul that came up with this magic aura spell? or "Who was Bigby that crafted this interposing hand spell?. Well, now they know. They were Red Robes from Krynn's ancient past!)
Takhisis, the Queen of Darkness, rules Baator. Her domain, Abthalom, is located in Nessus, the deepest and darkest layer. The Lords of the Nine (described in The Book of Vile Darkness) serve her, as do The Dark Eight (Asmodeus is now just a unique and powerful archdevil, as the other Lords are. Also, Prince Levistus is free from his glacial prison). Takhisis's personal bodyguard are five great wyrm chromatic dragons, each of who is a wizard of such unfettered strength, their magic alone could bring a demigod to its knees.

And that's all I have so far. So, tell me what you think: what about the rest of the gods? Who should go where? Who should co-habit with another god? Who gets the Abyss? Where does Zeboim go, who should the Demon Princes serve, etc.
As I said before, your comments and suggestions are appreciated. No flames, though, please. My Krynn is probably a bit more magic-rich and planar-involved than you're used to, so the difference is just there and doesn't need to be harshly criticized.
#2
cam_banks
Jan 29, 2004 15:04:00 Alternately, you can keep the domains as you describe them and simply have them be present as aspected realms within the Abyss, Dome of Heaven, and Hidden Vale. If Krynn's the only world you'll be working with, why are you replacing that cosmology with the Great Wheel? Is there a benefit to this change which I'm missing?

Cheers,
Cam
#3
baron_the_curse
Feb 01, 2004 13:16:51 The Great Wheel does have greater detail and depth than the simple cosmology originally used in 1st Edition Dragonlance. For those who own Planescape the Great Wheel has an entire game line to support it. I like how Loralon is putting to good use his D&D products to create a splendid cosmology for Dragonlance filled with plenty of adventure possibilities outside of Krynn.

Loralon, let me ask you though, how are you handling “planar” currency. I few years ago when I ran a Dragonlance game that took the players to the City of Sigil to track down a demonic Black Robed henchman I was presented with a serious problem. All of the useless gold the characters had from Krynn now became a fortune. It was not long after that adventure that the players where trading in 1stl piece for 40gp, so through a lot of work they got 400,000gp from 10,000 steel pieces! And off they where to the planes again for commercial reasons this time. It doesn’t make sense to say they use Steel Pieces in the planes as well since in Ansalon this economic change only came about because of the Cataclysm. Everyone used gold prior to the catastrophe. Eventually I just made planar travel so damn dangerous they had to rethink their enterprise. What do you plan to do?
#4
zombiegleemax
Feb 01, 2004 16:19:11 Can't Kaz serve Kiri-jolith?
#5
Matthew_L._Martin
Feb 01, 2004 17:37:09
Originally posted by Loralon
And that's all I have so far. So, tell me what you think: what about the rest of the gods? Who should go where? Who should co-habit with another god? Who gets the Abyss? Where does Zeboim go, who should the Demon Princes serve, etc.
As I said before, your comments and suggestions are appreciated. No flames, though, please. My Krynn is probably a bit more magic-rich and planar-involved than you're used to, so the difference is just there and doesn't need to be harshly criticized.

OK, looking over my copy of MotP 3E, I can make the following recommendations. Note that I'm placing theme and flavor over alignment considerations here, so you may want to alter divine or planar alignments to compensate.

--Sargonnas should go to either Acheron, if you want to stress his aspect as lord of Evil war, or Gehenna, if you prefer his volcanic side. Either plane contains enough Evil and Law elements to match his alignment.
--Morgion is a natural for Hades. The Wasting Tower makes an excellent outpost for him, perhaps being a lesser copy of the Bronze Tower, and the oinoloths are perfect servitors.
--Hiddukel's a tough one. His status as Lord of Fiends in the proto-DL and earliest DL material makes him a good match for the Abyss, but his treacherous nature suggests that he would also be a good match for Carceri.
--Chemosh is also tricky. If you weren't placing the Inner Planes off-limits, I'd suggest the Negative Energy Plane. Failing that, the Abyss may work, but his encouragement of sloth and despair means that, like Morgion, he'd _also_ fit well into Hades. Given that he and Morgion often overlap to a fair degree, perhaps making them co-rulers of the Gray Wastes would be worth considering.
--Zeboim, considering her aquatic affiliations and chaotic nature, might be more suited to having a mobile lair in the River Styx, or swimming it in Stygian dragon or dragon turtle form.
--Stick Nuitari with any of the Lower Planes no one else wants. :-)
--Shinare fits well on Mechanus, with Sirrion in Limbo. Consider giving Limbo a fire-dominant trait to reflect its lord and the fires of chaos/creation/destruction.
--Reorx could either take Clangeddin's place in Arcadia or, as he's often portrayed as the squire of Kiri-Jolith, share a realm in Ysgard.
--Chislev works well in the Beastlands, but she may do better with her own realm for Neutral animals and plants, or something resembling the Elemental Plane of Wood. Zivilyn should either go with her or be planted (literally :-) ) at the base of the Spire in the Outlands.

EDIT: Oops, forgot the demon lords. Orcus should be Chemosh's chief lieutenant or even an alias of the Lord of the Undead. Demogorgon makes a good ally for Zeboim.

Matthew L. Martin
#6
talinthas
Feb 01, 2004 17:50:48 i figured that zivlyn would be great as the plane of yggsdrasil, or whatever they call it these days (i dont know the planscape/motp3e names).
#7
Matthew_L._Martin
Feb 01, 2004 18:05:14
Originally posted by talinthas
i figured that zivlyn would be great as the plane of yggsdrasil, or whatever they call it these days (i dont know the planscape/motp3e names).

Sadly, that's not part of the core 3E cosmology. However, making it into a new Transitive Plane--one that reaches through all planes, times, and parallel universes--would fit in very well with Zivilyn.

Matthew L. Martin

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jan 29, 2004 11:20:01	Okay, here's what's going on: since Dragonlance will be the only campaign setting I will run from now on (and thus, it is the only Prime Material world that exists in my game), I want to rework the abodes of the gods and the outer planes at large. The Cosmology of Krynn given in the DLCS is somewhat replaced by the Great Wheel cosmology of D&D; now the Dome of Creation is merely a collective term for the Upper Planes, the Abyss is a catch-all phrase for the Lower Planes, etc. Basically, since the Krynnish pantheon are the only gods in the gameworld, I feel that they should spread out more and be the rulers (or co-rulers, in some cases) of their own planes on the Outer Planes. The Inner Planes are held in common, meaning every god can make use of their energies and no god rules them. The Transitive Planes fall under the respective domains of the gods of magic. Anyway, here's what I have so far. Suggestions and comments are appreciated. Paladine rules Celestia. The Heptobomad (described in The Book of Exalted Deeds) serve him, as does Loralon (LG male Silvanesti Cleric 20/Divine Agent 10/Hierophant 5), greatest of the elven clerics. Paladine's personal domain, the true Dome of Creation, rests in Chronias, the highest layer. Mishakal rules Elysium. Guardinal Prince Talisid and his Companions (described in The Book of Exalted Deeds) serve her. Her domain, The Healer's Home, is located in Amoria. Majere rules Arcadia. His domain, The Temple of True Light, is on the layer of Buxenus. The Storm Kings of Arcadia (four demigods with power over the weather of the entire plane) serve him. Kiri-Jolith rules Ysgard. His domain, The Heart of Justice, is located on the first layer. Kiri-Jolith is served by no creatures of distinction (I could find no reference for any, and I'm having trouble making any up), although his plane is populated by powerful celestial individuals such as solar angels, saints, once-mortal Knights of the Sword, lammasu, shedu, etc. Habbakuk rules the Beastlands. His domain, The Falls of the Phoenix, rests in Krigala. The Animal Lords (demigods who are the perfect representatives of each specie of animal) serve him. Branchala rules Arborea. All Titans (described in the MM), which can be found only on this plane of existence, serve him. His domain, The Soul of Music, is located in Olympus/Arvandor. A trio of Titans (each with epic bard levels) known as The Spellsong Three, serve him. Solinari marginally rules Bytopia, and also rules the Astral Plane. His domain, The Tower of Good Magic, resides in the Astral Plane. He is served by a mysterious group of once-mortal celestial White Robe wizards known as The Empyreal Seven (Par-Salian (LG male human Wizard 10/White Robe 10/Archmage 5) is rumored to be one of their number). Gilean rules the Outlands. His domain is the Library of All Knowledge, which is located at the top of the Spire. Sigil, the City of Doors, doesn't exist (nor does the Lady of Pain). A quintet of powerful rilmani, each with various levels of bard, expert, diviner, and loremaster levels, known as the The Five of the Book, serve him. Lunitari rules the Ethereal Plane. Her domain is The Citadel of Neutral Magic. A group of mysterious once-mortal Red Robes known as The Circle of Eight serve her (lol That was a Greyhawk reference, and yes, those eight mages plus Mordenkainen (N male human Wizard 20/Red Robe 7) do serve her (although they're much more powerful than previously detailed. So, for all those Krynnish mages who wondered, "Who was Nystul that came up with this magic aura spell? or "Who was Bigby that crafted this interposing hand spell?. Well, now they know. They were Red Robes from Krynn's ancient past!) Takhisis, the Queen of Darkness, rules Baator. Her domain, Abthalom, is located in Nessus, the deepest and darkest layer. The Lords of the Nine (described in The Book of Vile Darkness) serve her, as do The Dark Eight (Asmodeus is now just a unique and powerful archdevil, as the other Lords are. Also, Prince Levistus is free from his glacial prison). Takhisis's personal bodyguard are five great wyrm chromatic dragons, each of who is a wizard of such unfettered strength, their magic alone could bring a demigod to its knees. And that's all I have so far. So, tell me what you think: what about the rest of the gods? Who should go where? Who should co-habit with another god? Who gets the Abyss? Where does Zeboim go, who should the Demon Princes serve, etc. As I said before, your comments and suggestions are appreciated. No flames, though, please. My Krynn is probably a bit more magic-rich and planar-involved than you're used to, so the difference is just there and doesn't need to be harshly criticized.
#2 cam_banks Jan 29, 2004 15:04:00	Alternately, you can keep the domains as you describe them and simply have them be present as aspected realms within the Abyss, Dome of Heaven, and Hidden Vale. If Krynn's the only world you'll be working with, why are you replacing that cosmology with the Great Wheel? Is there a benefit to this change which I'm missing? Cheers, Cam
#3 baron_the_curse Feb 01, 2004 13:16:51	The Great Wheel does have greater detail and depth than the simple cosmology originally used in 1st Edition Dragonlance. For those who own Planescape the Great Wheel has an entire game line to support it. I like how Loralon is putting to good use his D&D products to create a splendid cosmology for Dragonlance filled with plenty of adventure possibilities outside of Krynn. Loralon, let me ask you though, how are you handling “planar” currency. I few years ago when I ran a Dragonlance game that took the players to the City of Sigil to track down a demonic Black Robed henchman I was presented with a serious problem. All of the useless gold the characters had from Krynn now became a fortune. It was not long after that adventure that the players where trading in 1stl piece for 40gp, so through a lot of work they got 400,000gp from 10,000 steel pieces! And off they where to the planes again for commercial reasons this time. It doesn’t make sense to say they use Steel Pieces in the planes as well since in Ansalon this economic change only came about because of the Cataclysm. Everyone used gold prior to the catastrophe. Eventually I just made planar travel so damn dangerous they had to rethink their enterprise. What do you plan to do?
#4 zombiegleemax Feb 01, 2004 16:19:11	Can't Kaz serve Kiri-jolith?
#5 Matthew_L._Martin Feb 01, 2004 17:37:09	Originally posted by Loralon And that's all I have so far. So, tell me what you think: what about the rest of the gods? Who should go where? Who should co-habit with another god? Who gets the Abyss? Where does Zeboim go, who should the Demon Princes serve, etc. As I said before, your comments and suggestions are appreciated. No flames, though, please. My Krynn is probably a bit more magic-rich and planar-involved than you're used to, so the difference is just there and doesn't need to be harshly criticized. OK, looking over my copy of MotP 3E, I can make the following recommendations. Note that I'm placing theme and flavor over alignment considerations here, so you may want to alter divine or planar alignments to compensate. --Sargonnas should go to either Acheron, if you want to stress his aspect as lord of Evil war, or Gehenna, if you prefer his volcanic side. Either plane contains enough Evil and Law elements to match his alignment. --Morgion is a natural for Hades. The Wasting Tower makes an excellent outpost for him, perhaps being a lesser copy of the Bronze Tower, and the oinoloths are perfect servitors. --Hiddukel's a tough one. His status as Lord of Fiends in the proto-DL and earliest DL material makes him a good match for the Abyss, but his treacherous nature suggests that he would also be a good match for Carceri. --Chemosh is also tricky. If you weren't placing the Inner Planes off-limits, I'd suggest the Negative Energy Plane. Failing that, the Abyss may work, but his encouragement of sloth and despair means that, like Morgion, he'd _also_ fit well into Hades. Given that he and Morgion often overlap to a fair degree, perhaps making them co-rulers of the Gray Wastes would be worth considering. --Zeboim, considering her aquatic affiliations and chaotic nature, might be more suited to having a mobile lair in the River Styx, or swimming it in Stygian dragon or dragon turtle form. --Stick Nuitari with any of the Lower Planes no one else wants. :-) --Shinare fits well on Mechanus, with Sirrion in Limbo. Consider giving Limbo a fire-dominant trait to reflect its lord and the fires of chaos/creation/destruction. --Reorx could either take Clangeddin's place in Arcadia or, as he's often portrayed as the squire of Kiri-Jolith, share a realm in Ysgard. --Chislev works well in the Beastlands, but she may do better with her own realm for Neutral animals and plants, or something resembling the Elemental Plane of Wood. Zivilyn should either go with her or be planted (literally :-) ) at the base of the Spire in the Outlands. EDIT: Oops, forgot the demon lords. Orcus should be Chemosh's chief lieutenant or even an alias of the Lord of the Undead. Demogorgon makes a good ally for Zeboim. Matthew L. Martin
#6 talinthas Feb 01, 2004 17:50:48	i figured that zivlyn would be great as the plane of yggsdrasil, or whatever they call it these days (i dont know the planscape/motp3e names).
#7 Matthew_L._Martin Feb 01, 2004 18:05:14	Originally posted by talinthas i figured that zivlyn would be great as the plane of yggsdrasil, or whatever they call it these days (i dont know the planscape/motp3e names). Sadly, that's not part of the core 3E cosmology. However, making it into a new Transitive Plane--one that reaches through all planes, times, and parallel universes--would fit in very well with Zivilyn. Matthew L. Martin