I think with the WoHS only just reforming in our campaign that they wouldnt be bothered with one (they have anough problems and enemies without making more) but I was just wondering what the wizards would think about them.
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Im just wondering what a WoHS would think of a Hexblade.
I think with the WoHS only just reforming in our campaign that they wouldnt be bothered with one (they have anough problems and enemies without making more) but I was just wondering what the wizards would think about them.
The answer (or non-answer, as the case may be) is that hexblades would be treated as sorcerers, as hexblades cast like sorcerers (thereby drawing upon primal sorcery). Of course, we don't know yet how the WoHS will treat sorcerers yet.
Of course, we don't know yet how the WoHS will treat sorcerers yet.
Wait... I thought it was said Sorcerers are treated just like renegades?
Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
Wait... I thought it was said Sorcerers are treated just like renegades?
I think Margaret said that on the Dragonlance-L. Thing is, the WoHS are not currently in a good enough position to hunt down renegades.
Cheers,
Cam
I think the best option would be to have renegade metamagic feats which do the stuff that regular metamagic feats do, with a little bit of wild magic thrown in. It would be hard to work out game balance though, given that these feats would be designed to "break the rules".
Plus, it gives renegades for the WoHS to hunt rather than the party's sorcerer, bard, or innumerable arcane spellcasting prestige classes. Best of all, these feats could be added to both the wizard and sorcerer classes, allowing for renegades to be around when sorcery was not.
Originally posted by ferratus
Plus, it gives renegades for the WoHS to hunt rather than the party's sorcerer, bard, or innumerable arcane spellcasting prestige classes. Best of all, these feats could be added to both the wizard and sorcerer classes, allowing for renegades to be around when sorcery was not.
Using magic tainted by Chaos isn't the only way to become a renegade. It's just the flavor of the month when it comes to sorcerers and bards.
In my campaign, the party's diviner and White Robe wannabe is expressly interested in uniting the wizards and sorcerers in a peaceful cohabitive state of learning and understanding. He's taken a young sorcerer (Cole, from the Sylvan Key adventure in the DLCS) under his wing, encouraging him to use magic. I haven't told the player this is a futile effort, because who knows if it will be or not? He's an ideal candidate for a lynchpin between the philosophies of the Gods of Magic and those of the disparate wild sorcerers of the world, and it makes my campaign more interesting for him to think this way.
That's what I hold up as the gold standard when it comes to this kind of thing. It can be argued back and forth, but how's it come out in play? For the time being, the multitude of options that present themselves (civil war, peaceful accord, indifference, jihad, betrayal of peace, etc) are the story nuggets I'm most interested in. I'll worry about the exact details later.
It's much the same with the hexblade or any other class. If I want to use it, I'll sort something out. If you're planning on using the class, I hope I've given you something to chew on while you're writing up that stat block.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Using magic tainted by Chaos isn't the only way to become a renegade. It's just the flavor of the month when it comes to sorcerers and bards.
Cool, but what are they? There is various problems with each one, and we have the think them through.
1) Is it using magic in dangerous and destructive ways? Does this cripple the black robe's potential to do evil? (ie. Join armies, create draconians and undead, use elven blood in rituals to summon demons etc.)
2) Is it merely what the Orders think is a bad idea at the time? Does this mean that the Orders are without purpose or focus? Does this mean that the moon gods have abdicated their responsibility in guiding these orders? Or worse, does this mean that the moon gods are not interested in magic itself, but in their own personal power?
3) Are their specific actions that are taboo, and if they are taboo, is there are reason behind them?
In my campaign, the party's diviner and White Robe wannabe is expressly interested in uniting the wizards and sorcerers in a peaceful cohabitive state of learning and understanding.
Cool, a white robe whose robes don't come with a reversable black lining for when nobody is looking. ;)
He's taken a young sorcerer (Cole, from the Sylvan Key adventure in the DLCS) under his wing, encouraging him to use magic. I haven't told the player this is a futile effort, because who knows if it will be or not?
Mmm... but if he does succeed, it will because he has found a way for sorcerers and wizards to co-exist. We have to know what the gods of magic are so scared of in order for that to happen. Is it impossible because sorcery is entropic? Is it impossible because the WoHS leadership are power-mad asses?
That's what I hold up as the gold standard when it comes to this kind of thing. It can be argued back and forth, but how's it come out in play?
It is my standard in play too. When you don't think about things and their logical consequences it comes out very badly in play. Like what happens when gods of magic simply turn off magic like a light switch. That turns out very badly in play doesn't it?
It is the same thing if we don't discuss what makes a renegade a renegade. We end up with a system that is illogical, unreasonable and cannot possibly be beleived.
Personally, I think the wizards and gods of magic hate sorcerers for much the same reason why I think most young suburbanites in our own society start studying "magic". I think it is because most of them are looking for a supernatural shortcut for problems they are too weak, cowardly or stupid to solve with hard work. Given that sorcery doesn't require training, study, discipline or devotion... that fits. It also means that they are likely to stumble down to the path of Chaos tainted magic, because it is "easy" power. It is why renegade wizards who are not destined to become powerful archmages turn to it as well.
It fits, supports both the jihad and the possibility of a peaceful solution. Gives a role for the WoHS as the "big brother" of sorcery, and can pretty much accomidate any storyline that you want to do. What is more, and what you won't get by not bothering to consider the above questions, is consistency in harmonizing all the different storylines.
That is what will ensure it comes out well in gameplay.
I thought is some previous age... like the first or second, people ran around using primal sorcery because it was all they had (there were no Towers of High Sorcery) and "Bad Things"(tm) happened because of it. Thats what prompted the creation of the Towers of High Sorcery.
Ah, here it is, page 200/201 of DLCS. During the time the Greygem was first running wild with mortals in the world. Mortals used magic that feel out of their control killing thousands. I guess "mortals don't have the wisdom to control magic on thier own", so the three gods of magic came down to show the mortals how to do it.
Which is interesting I think, because the current Age of Mortals people have taken a step (maybe more) away from the gods and towards independance. Maybe this step towards independance, the one which allows Mystics to channel "divine" energy from faith in themselves, also allows Sorcerers a greater degree of control and insight so they can wield it properly this time. Though, I'm sure the Wizards of High Sorcery won't see things that way and continue to hunt renagades and I'm not sure I blame them.
I do kind of agree, it would be nice to gain some bonus for being a renegade... though maybe the idea is your freedom is a bonus enough?
Originally posted by ferratus
or some kind of game effect to show us. ;)
SAGA used to. If one were to draw a dragon card while trying to trump a spell, the spell would misfire, or mishap, or whatever you want to call it. It wouldn't work...and most likely, it would backfire.
I was sad to see this go in 3e...wait, what am I saying...the 5th Age sorcerer as it is in flavor text and pre-War of Souls no longer exists...it's been retconned. So, I guess I should stop complaining. ;)
Im still not quite focused on whether he will be a Minotaur (like all my other charachters) or a weak human.
The Hexblade is a new CORE class and not a PrC. It seems quite well balanced and playable. It gets a fighter BAB and some spells and abilities rather than a ton of feats.
Its differant but cool. There are some nice PrC's in the book as well so its deffinately not a wasted purchase.
Originally posted by ferratus
Personally, I think the wizards and gods of magic hate sorcerers for much the same reason why I think most young suburbanites in our own society start studying "magic". I think it is because most of them are looking for a supernatural shortcut for problems they are too weak, cowardly or stupid to solve with hard work.
You know, it's little comments like this which pretty much sour any interest I have in future of having these discussions with you, Terry.
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Its the new Complete Warrior book. Its quite a good book with a revision of alot of 3.0 feats and some new ones as well.
The Hexblade is a new CORE class and not a PrC. It seems quite well balanced and playable. It gets a fighter BAB and some spells and abilities rather than a ton of feats.
Its differant but cool. There are some nice PrC's in the book as well so its deffinately not a wasted purchase.
It's an excellent book, yes. Even moreso if you don't have the original "splatbooks" (Sword and Fist, et al) but there's reason to pick it up even if you do, since a lot of the prestige classes and feats have been revisited and revised for 3.5.
I'm going to get a lot of mileage out of these new book!. So long as I can come up with some suitable reason, I'm letting the players and their actions give me excuses to use the new stuff.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Hammerhand
No penalties when in light armor at all so its all good. Im looking forward to playing this class.
Very cool. Between this and what Cam's saying...it sounds like this book is very much worth looking into.
Thanks guys.
Or perhaps I should say that I wouldnt penalize my players for killing off another player that chooses to play a FB. Once anyone saw one of these guys going after their comrad I cant imagine anyone not blasting them with a lightning bolt, part of the party or not.