Darksun and Planescape have the largest message Board following(Alot of posts), Planescape spawned a best-selling computer game, and Planar products continue to be sold.
Darksun, on the other hand, is a unique Dunelike setting, which I could imagine Wizards relaunching.
On a related note, a new campaign setting is going to be released in August by Wizards of the Coast this year.
The setting as yet does not have a name, but is set in a world with a victorian era culture, an Industrial-Era technology level, and also has Dinosaurs, alive and well.
Any thoughts on this?
I just hope if they do re-create the setting, they do a good job of it.
There's also the matter that much of the Planescape setting has already been detailed somewhere, in one form or another: The planes are, obviously, in the Manual of the Planes. The monsters are spread across the Monster Manual II, Fiend Folio, etc. Even the factions have had a couple appearances in Dragon magazine (issues #287 and 315, for those playing along at home). The upcoming Planar Handbook will probably fill in some of the gaps left by those books.
The most notable gap hole that they've left is Sigil, which I suspect they'll continue to do. Put Sigil back in and you pretty much have Planescape again. So maybe if someone pitches the idea of publishing a Sigil campaign setting book to WotC...
I don't see Planescape as a whole getting revisited, though. Too big. Too ambitious. And like I said, most of the material's already been canibalized.
Put it this way - for those of us lucky enough to have all of the original stuff, we can all say that the content is better than the rules. And for those who don't have the books - there are at least two big retailers on the net that have the ESDs available.
The whole point of PlaneScape is the ideas; if you can pick up the supplements, you can tweak the rules yourself with a little patience - and places like PS3E seem to be doing all the hard work for you.
Looking at the standard of other 'reinvented' games in recent years (such as Gamma World and Marvel) there's rarely anything *new* there anymore. Nice covers, nice art, but guess what - the heart is still the same.
And as any arcanaloth will tell you, "Sometimes, judging a book by the cover is EXACTLY what we want you to do..."
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
[b]
On a related note, a new campaign setting is going to be released in August by Wizards of the Coast this year.
The setting as yet does not have a name, but is set in a world with a victorian era culture, an Industrial-Era technology level, and also has Dinosaurs, alive and well.
Any thoughts on this?
One different from Eberron? Are you sure?
If you are, answer, please.
Looks interesting so far though, I just might buy the book(Even though I hate 3rd edition, and haven't bought any of the books, BECAUSE NOONE IN MY AREA OF MASSACHUSETTS PLAYS D&D!!!!)
Sorry for venting my gamer frustrations, but its so hard to be a gamer without others!
Also, as a frequent poster on the DS boards, I can tell you that 90% of those posts are from the same 10-15 people.
I'd love to see PS and DS make a comeback, but I'd hate to see it done wrong. The Athas.org team is putting together a great effort and it appears the PS team is doing the same. I kind of like it this way, with public input actually being important. This is especially true after reading that last Dragon magazine.
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
The reason for this assumption?
Darksun and Planescape have the largest message Board following(Alot of posts), Planescape spawned a best-selling computer game, and Planar products continue to be sold.
Fan loyalty does not, unfortunately, correlate to sales. Planescapers are loyal, but are more than likely in short supply compared to Forgotten Realms.
Darksun, on the other hand, is a unique Dunelike setting, which I could imagine Wizards relaunching.
This may in fact be a reason why they won't relaunch it. WotC likes generic things that can be sold to as many people as possible. Forgotten Realms is about as generic, basic Dungeons & Dragons as you can get(it's all about exploring ancient ruins!), and it's high magic to boot. Dark Sun, on the otherhand, is so characterful to be for a highly specialized audience (namely those who don't mind having to struggle for water ;) ) and is low magic as well. These two properties make it less than appealing to the mass audience. And WotC is only interested in selling what the least advanced role-player will buy.
It's not PlaneScape. It's not pretending to be PlaneScape. But just seeing the art, and reading the 'prospectus' (not getting involved in the messageboards, discussions, destructions before the thing is even here!) I thought...
"This is something different."
Which is what drew me to PS in the first place.
Didn't know what PlaneScape was, I just kind of wandered into it, like the Clueless Prime I am. Sometimes, Planars can be the Munchkins of the Multiverse - I think I'm going to enjoy Eberron - but when it's out.
I hope your wrong, because if thats the case, Wizards considers its target audience as idiots, and as such, as gullible fools willing to buy anything that doesn't use big words and has a pretty cover and illustrations inside. How very insulting on Wizard's part if thats the case.
I then beg the question, if that being the case, does such a company, having prooved their character, or rather, lack of one, deserve to be showered with money from people who buy their products?
On a related, but somewhat unrelated note, Darksun is NOT low magic.
Ever here of the 2nd edition DarkSun accessory "Sorcerior Kings"?
This details High Level Characters and Psionic Enchantments(10th level spells), as well as a step by step process the world's Clerics, Defilers, and Preservers can become near God-like beings.
Its desert culture may prove hard to imagine by us, but I could imagine gamers from the Midwestern United States, Australia, North Africa, and the Middle East easily imagineable. I'd imagine therefore, the flavor and climate of DarkSun might appeal to those gamers more than lets say, the Forgotten Realms.
Planescape's biggest appeal to me was that it was full of character. Almost all of the info books (Planewalker's Handbook, Planes of Chaos, Conflict, Law, The Inner Planes, etc) had an incredible amount of character. They had some crunch and stats, too, but it was enmeshed into the fluff in such a way that even the crunch had its own character. Even the PSMMs had character in the monster entries.
I'd be seriously worried that if Wizards attempted to republish Planescape without hiring or buying the Planewalker.com work, the new 3.0/3.5 Planescape would completely lose its character.
And what Moogle said, though I can dream I might win the lottery and then buy Planescape and have the cash to publish stuff.
*grumbles about the stupid NC governor that won't allow an in state lottery*
And Moogle... "characterful" ?
*chuckle*
Originally posted by overtrick
As has been mentioned elsewhere, much of the old Planescape team is curently working on another book, which I think would preclude them from being part of a WotC relaunching of Planescape any time soon.
Excerpt from the Monte Cook Q&A:
[i]Beyond Countless Doorways
Carthain: From CD8D: "How similar will the Beyond Countless Doorways product be to the old Planescape design of planes?"
Monte: If you mean "the great wheel cosmology," it's pretty different. However, all the planes in Beyond Countless Doorways are very modular and self contained. Any of them could make a very cool demiplane or a layer of an existing Planescape/Manual of the Planes plane without any trouble. If you mean will they be designed with the same level of wild creativity and big ideas, like Planescape had, then, I'd say yes, that's the goal.
Carthain: From Caledonian: "What cosmological setting will Beyond Countless Doorways use?"
Monte: Beyond Countless Doorways offers its own cosmology that you can use in your campaign if you wish. It's basically set up to be very open ended and adaptable. You can also chuck it and just use the individual planes, which make up the majority of the book. In flavor, I suppose the cosmology is a little like what's described in The Diamond Throne, or what Michael Moorcock offers in his books. A limitless number of worlds and planes to visit. There's more to it than that, but that's it's main difference from the Planescape "there are these planes and no more or less and they all fit together in this exact way" method.
Carthain: From Merganser86: "Are the 'Countless Doorways' a nod to Sigil?"
Monte: Not really. The title refers to the fact that the book's premise is that there are an infinite number of planes and worlds and each one of them has at least one doorway to get to it.[/i]
You heard it from the man himself. Beyond Countless Doorways is not Planescape. While, this doesn't mean that they are definately going to make a comeback, it does mean that there won't be any copyright problems if they do decide to remake it.
And with the Planar Handbook coming out soon, I'm optimistic that it could lead to something.
Come to think of it, the only 3.5 edition Planescape stuff they really need to create, besides a generic Planescape Guide(Detailing the Para and Quasi Planes, and some monsters, like Modrons, left out of the Manual of the Planes) and a Guide to Sigil, and Guide to Factions and Sects.(Which I'd have as one book) Everything else is unnessary.
Originally posted by Sword_Of_Geddon
So, basically, your saying Moogle001, that Wizards will not bring back Planescape because the average person is too stupid to understand it or enjoy it.
I hope your wrong, because if thats the case, Wizards considers its target audience as idiots, and as such, as gullible fools willing to buy anything that doesn't use big words and has a pretty cover and illustrations inside. How very insulting on Wizard's part if thats the case.
I then beg the question, if that being the case, does such a company, having prooved their character, or rather, lack of one, deserve to be showered with money from people who buy their products?
Here's the trick:
1) The grand majority of the human race are only a little smarter than The Infamous Dubya. Here in the US, especially, a massive number of people never obtain true literacy (even people on the net can barely spell half the time). Human technology and society is due to the exceptional, not the average.
2) The grand majority is where the MONEY is.
3) Most forms of successful media, thus, cater to the 'lowest common denominator'.
4) This is also why truly intelligent, well-done movies are so rarely done, while Arnold flicks and Spring Break comedies are so commoon. (and I -like- Arnold flicks, generally, so nyeh).
Does (most) entertainment cater to the "lowest common denominator", obsolutely, but only because people let it do so. It seems you Injenjucar, like me, are tired of hearing entertainment companies hide behind the first amendment whenever anyone criticizes them.
Hopefully the latest Superbowl controversy will cause a chain-reaction and backfire on the Entertainment industry.
I wasn't saying Wizards are a bad company, they are quite the opposite actually(I was stating hypothetical facts, which turned into a rate about the lack of character of some other companies) I, when I was 15, attended Wizards old gamecamp in Seattle, where I met some of Wizard's top people(Richard Garfield, some of the artists who illustrated stuff for both D&D and Magic the Gathering) They were all nice people.
I just have some issues with how they handled 3rd edition(I wish the quality of writing in the books was better, but like I said earlier, you can't please everyone) and cancelled Alternity, and I hope 4th edition D&D isn't in the works as well(Wizards should really think about creating a end-all when it comes to new D&D editions).
America only seems stupid because it has more people.
Britain doesn't seem as stupid as we only have Birmingham.
The main thing to get from the above is that PS won't come back from Wizards.
(And I live close to Birmingham, and didn't buy Mad World... ;) )
*pauses in the casting of a ice-admixtured fireball*
I doubt Wizards will relaunch Planescape or Darksun as 3rd edition campaign worlds, to tell you the truth, but I feel that 4th edition is another story.
But (IMHO) both settings didn't improve over time. I realize that many will disagree with this, and it is only my opinion.
Planescape started perfectly, but led to Faction War and a metaplot I didn't like. And don't get me started on MOTP.
Dark Sun started perfectly, but led to cheesy Burroughs-esque weirdness and a fixation on Athas' past I didn't like.
I know I'm Old School Grouchy, but I'd like to see Planescape and Dark Sun re-released as they were originally written...
I need to get some free time and post a few more new locations that I'd made up, one of them is a town in Pluton, and the other is a spot in Oinos.
As for the faction war, it was probably realised under the assumption that Planescape was going to continue, hense the Non-Outer Planar products that launched around the same time.
The Planescape team, realised too late that they had unintentionally centered Planescape around Sigil and the Outer Planes, and Faction War was likely an attempt to rectify that.
Completely agree. Faction War, to me, just didn't serve a purpose. I felt like the planes should have the possibility of events, that individual campaigns would have to flesh out.
With faction war, the philosophical questions raised by the Factions descended into a free for all....or at least that's how I felt about it. ;)
Also, as a frequent poster on the DS boards, I can tell you that 90% of those posts are from the same 10-15 people.
So we're a chatty bunch ;)
Gotta agree though, online representation isn't a good basis for determining a company's projected path. Some peope at WOTC have already spoken their mind in regards to their views of the online community being a 'smaller target segment compared to the majority gamer' or something like that. Seems that we get to be the ones to yank the torch and banner out of WOTC's hand and carry it aloft on our own here. Which suits me just fine. Besides, I'm pretty pleased with both the PS and DS teams take on their respective revisions so far, quite up to par with what WOTC would have put out anyhow (albeit at a much slower pace, but hey, I know what its like to work for free).
Besides, what would they put out? The same thing for 40 bucks that I can get 1/2 for 5 bucks (the original ESD for the setting) and the other 1/2 for free (from the official websites)? Just doesn't seem worth it to me.