This thread is concerning the release date of the KEY OF DESTINY adventure module as well as disucussing the module itself and what you are expecting in terms of the 'adventure' once it is released.
The releases I'm truly looking forward to are the Bestiary and Towers of High Sorcery , books that provide lots of the crunchy bits (e.g. feats, prestige classes, spells, etc.).
Granted, there will probably be a few such crunchy bits in Key of Destiny, but probably not enough to make it worth my while to purchase the book.
Of course, who am I kidding? I'm a hardcore DL fan and will likely purchase the adventure simply because it's Dragonlance and it's 3.5 :D
Originally posted by iltharanos
I look forward to its release, whenever that is. In the end, though, I probably won't buy it. I've been DMing for ~15 years now and in all that time have made use of maybe half a dozen published adventures in my various campaigns.
The releases I'm truly looking forward to are the Bestiary and Towers of High Sorcery , books that provide lots of the crunchy bits (e.g. feats, prestige classes, spells, etc.).
Granted, there will probably be a few such crunchy bits in Key of Destiny, but probably not enough to make it worth my while to purchase the book.
Of course, who am I kidding? I'm a hardcore DL fan and will likely purchase the adventure simply because it's Dragonlance and it's 3.5 :D
When I run the Key of Destiny adventure module it will be the first time that I actually have used my v3.5 books since my wife bought them for me in July 2003. I cannot wait!
~B4Real
At no point did I say Soveriegn Press was putting out products too slowly. My issue from the start was there inability to stick to their own schedule. If they had said none of these products would be released till Sept. 2004, then I wouldn't have posted a single complaint. I do find it comical that in your list of products released thus far you included Key of Destiny as a February release. My suggestion would be to leave that off the list since we really don't know when it will be out.
Oh what the heck. What is the 'current' target dates for the follow ups to KoD, if there is any? Anyone know?
Yeah, I'm just an impatient little creetin'. I admit it.
However, I can say that once the adventure(s) come out, I'm more than willing and available to answer any of those questions ;)
Christopher
Originally posted by Calabozo
Christopher are you going to write the other 2 modules?
Yep, Spectre of Sorrows is in the works now & Price of Courage will follow soon afterwards
Christopher
Originally posted by Taskr36
I do find it comical that in your list of products released thus far you included Key of Destiny as a February release. My suggestion would be to leave that off the list since we really don't know when it will be out.
Well...for starters, my post was actually a response to something Hammerhand said, not you...so I wasn't actually referring to anything you said.
Anyway, I included Key of Destiny because it has gone to print. Which means it's a set timeline after that when we get them (I belive Dragonhelm said the turnaround is around 3 weeks).
As for the inability to stick to their own schedule...I already explained my take on that...so I don't think there's any reason for me to re-iterate it here.
Originally posted by Taskr36
Wow I'm gone for a few days and that thread turns into a bunch of lame insults. Pretty sad...
Well...sometimes Trolls just show up...and there's not much you can do about it. I should have just ignored him...I knew what he was doing...but I have a temper, so it was only a matter of time.
Originally posted by Stormprince
Yep, Spectre of Sorrows is in the works now & Price of Courage will follow soon afterwards
Christopher
Can we potentially expect the other two modules to be released by year end?
Originally posted by RandPC
Can we potentially expect the other two modules to be released by year end?
I'm just the writer, not the publisher, so beyond my ability to answer that. I cannot speak for Sovereign Press any more ;)
Christopher
I'd be interested in knowing what kinds of characters people will be playing, or how any DMs plan on handling aspiring Knights of Solamnia and Wizards of High Sorcery?
All I can tell your right now is that we are working very hard on getting both Key of Destiny and the Bestiary of Krynn off to press. (They are printing in completely different locations, which is why two completely separate products are going out at roughly the same time.) Once we have a confirmed ship date, I'll post an accurate street-date on Dragonlance.com so everyone knows what's going on.
I'm keenly aware of the frustration caused by having to wait for a product that you thought would be out months ago, but please understand that it's not due to a lack of either caring or trying!
We'll keep you posted. Thanks!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by jechambers
All I can tell your right now is that we are working very hard on getting both Key of Destiny and the Bestiary of Krynn off to press.
Oops. I thought Key of Destiny had gone to press already. My mistake.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Oops. I thought Key of Destiny had gone to press already. My mistake.
Now you see why I didn't want it included in that list you made. Until it is on the store shelf don't make any assumptions.
Originally posted by Taskr36
Now you see why I didn't want it included in that list you made. Until it is on the store shelf don't make any assumptions.
:P
[And now a nod to Dork Tower]
And yet... it... is... so... COOL! MUST BUY! MUST BUY NOW!
*phew* Glad I got that out of my system.
Anyway, I trust and thank SP for doing great work and taking the time to put high quality into the work. [SP = both Sovereign Press and StormPrince.]
I'd also give thanks to Wizards too for their part in these products, but their initials aren't SP. :D
Originally posted by Taskr36
Now you see why I didn't want it included in that list you made. Until it is on the store shelf don't make any assumptions.
How do you think I feel, having dates being given and then updating my product listing, only to have them change and then change again?
Originally posted by lorac75
Well, SP has officially lost my money if this is true. Disgraceful.
Oy vay!
Trust me, I'm not any happier about this than anyone else is
Lemme see what I can find out.
Christopher
Originally posted by Sundancer75
Release date now seems to be mid to end of March... *groan*
Where'd you hear that? This is news to me.
Originally posted by lorac75
Well, SP has officially lost my money if this is true. Disgraceful.
That's a bit overly melodramatic, isn't it?
Whatever.
Originally posted by Sundancer75
Release date now seems to be mid to end of March... *groan*
Okay, this has officially become ridiculous. I think we've reached the point where the argument of waiting in order to release a good and polished product is not really holding water very much anymore. I'm supposed to start a campaign (which I've put off since October when the KOD was originally supposed to be released) and by the looks of it, I'm going to be running it without the KOD, which means I have to take liberties now, where I would have rather played with what is considered canon (ie this adventure) It doesn't look like I'll be able to use the adventure now, and since that is the case, I guess I won't be buying the KOD. It sucks because I was really looking forward to it too. Ah well.
Originally posted by Stormprince
Yep, Spectre of Sorrows is in the works now & Price of Courage will follow soon afterwards
Christopher
Keep the adventures coming Chris! :D
~B4Real
Originally posted by frostdawn
Okay, this has officially become ridiculous. I think we've reached the point where the argument of waiting in order to release a good and polished product is not really holding water very much anymore. I'm supposed to start a campaign (which I've put off since October when the KOD was originally supposed to be released) and by the looks of it, I'm going to be running it without the KOD, which means I have to take liberties now, where I would have rather played with what is considered canon (ie this adventure) It doesn't look like I'll be able to use the adventure now, and since that is the case, I guess I won't be buying the KOD. It sucks because I was really looking forward to it too. Ah well.
I am waiting to use it too but since all of my players have not bought their v3.5 PHB's yet I can wait a bit longer.
Originally posted by frostdawn
I guess I won't be buying the KOD. It sucks because I was really looking forward to it too. Ah well.
Nothing says that you can't pick it up when it comes out, use portions of it, or run it at a later date.
Guys, there's more to putting out an adventure than just writing it, polishing it up, and making it look good. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff we're not privy to. Remember that they are a business, and as such, they have all sorts of business and legal issues to iron out (as any business would). They're a very small business too that has seen much change in recent months, so that complicates matters further.
Like I've said previously, this is a growing pain. Sure, it sucks that there have been delays, and that many of you have already started campaigns anticipating KoD.
At the same time, complaining won't get the module here any faster, nor will it be productive.
My advice is to keep running your games the way you want. When Key of Destiny comes out, you can either play it at a later date, or pause your regular game to play KoD. Or, maybe rotate back-and-forth between games.
There are some adventures on Dragonlance.com and the Nexus for those in need of adventures. Some were in our recent adventure contest. A few of those were quite good.
Also, feel free to share adventure ideas on the boards. Perhaps we can help one another out.
When it does come out, I am around for questions, advice, and any other help anyone could ever want, so feel free to pick my brain.
For those waiting, I may be able to offer some suggestions & advice, without spoiling the surprises and breaking any confidentiality stuff...
Cheer up! It's written, it has art work, it has maps, it's just tied up in the official stuff right now... and Spectre's in the works. :D
Christopher
Nothing says that you can't pick it up when it comes out, use portions of it, or run it at a later date.
Guys, there's more to putting out an adventure than just writing it, polishing it up, and making it look good. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff we're not privy to. Remember that they are a business, and as such, they have all sorts of business and legal issues to iron out (as any business would). They're a very small business too that has seen much change in recent months, so that complicates matters further.
Like I've said previously, this is a growing pain. Sure, it sucks that there have been delays, and that many of you have already started campaigns anticipating KoD.
At the same time, complaining won't get the module here any faster, nor will it be productive.
My advice is to keep running your games the way you want. When Key of Destiny comes out, you can either play it at a later date, or pause your regular game to play KoD. Or, maybe rotate back-and-forth between games.
There are some adventures on Dragonlance.com and the Nexus for those in need of adventures. Some were in our recent adventure contest. A few of those were quite good.
Also, feel free to share adventure ideas on the boards. Perhaps we can help one another out.
Yeah, some of those do look pretty good, and I also picked up a few of the adventure books/seeds to throw in in the event that the adventurers in my group go off on a tangent that I hadn't planned for. (good old stalling tactic, until the campaign is ready for them again ;))I have the background on how they meet, and a way to tie in mutual interests as far as short and long term goals, I was just hoping to run things with what is considered canon is all. My major concern is anything I do may contradict what happens with KOD, and then I either have to retcon major parts of what I came up with due to contradictions, or not play KOD. That is what really upsets me.
What I was wondering is, why can't SP offer the public more conservative release dates? Being aggressive with a release date is nice to stir up interest, but you wind up shooting yourself in the foot when you set an unrealistic goal, and and fail to meet that goal repeatedly. If the release date was originally planned say 4-5 months from now, and the module is released in (now) mid- March, we'd be getting the product early, and would then be happy. Instead, SP has short changed themselves on unrealistic release dates almost a half dozen times for this one product. That means the product is massively late from the perspective of the consumer, and we start to get annoyed. I'm all for a quality product, and am ecstatic that Dragonlance is available as an official playable setting, but I just don't get why the release dates aren't realistic.
A bit off topic, but I'm still a bit cheesed that Hasbro decided to pull the plug on the Wizards of the Coasts stores. Finding source books in one central location on the retail market will be a serious pain now. Especially for Dragonlance products. Ah well, all these changes at once, has gotten me rather sullen.
Sorry for the rants guys.For what little it's worth, from a customer relations standpoint I'd strongly urge SP not to release anymore expected product release deadlines.
It seems to be a safe bet that one can expect at least 1 delay and possibly more, so your bound to disappoint customers with the frequent delays.
I'm not altogether sure you can afford to disappoint customers as consistently and frequently as has happened thus far.
A handful of hardcore DragonLance fans have pretty much given up on SP products which I doubt bodes well for the casual/new comer fan base that may pick up on DragonLance.
I've seen the SP product delays being brought up on other RPG forums that typically never saw any mention of DragonLance so it would seem your gaining something of a poor reputation.
Perhaps it might be adviseable to adopt a policy of simply stating the product will be released when it's finished and not before, if you refrain from setting even a cautious expected release date you can hopefully escape the current public perception that delays are to be expected for each product.
Granted even that policy will upset some, as I along with many others will desire some sort of a vague date wherein we can expect to have the products in our hands.
Still, all considered it may be an preferable option then the current standard of setting tentative release dates.
I can't help but wonder whether you might also be better off avoiding mention of the relatively low number of full time employees at SP working on DragonLance.
When Chris Coyle left there was a bit of talk of there only being a handful (3 I believe?) full time employees left and that you were presently relying upon a number of amateur writers.
A handful of those writers being well known on this and other DragonLance forums as 'merely' being among the many DragonLance fans.
I've seen a number of people question whether that meant we were to expect an amteurish product, most specifically in reference to the upcoming DragonLance Bestiary.
Similarly I've seen a few question whether SP may be encountering financial difficulties and that was the reason.
Others still have mentioned this as an excuse for the delays.
Regardless of the actual circumstances that has seemingly further damaged the public perception of the state of affairs at SP.
As I myself am simply one of the many dedicated DragonLance fans and am in no way involved in the industry my opinions are of dubious usefulness and have quite possibly been brought up internally on many an occasion if they are even remotely applicable.
Still, the fact that I am one of those dedicated fans and uninvolved in the industry tends to give me good perception of how the casual and dedicated fanbase feels/reacts to Soverign Press.
I was just hoping to run things with what is considered canon is all. My major concern is anything I do may contradict what happens with KOD, and then I either have to retcon major parts of what I came up with due to contradictions, or not play KOD. That is what really upsets me.
When I ran the original War of the Dark Lance games, the novel Dragons of Summer Flame took what was a canon-friendly game, and made it non-canon. Despite this, my players still had a blast, and that’s what matters.
What may help is running your own game for a while, then starting with new characters when Key of Destiny comes out. Let y our players know that some things may not mesh.
What I was wondering is, why can't SP offer the public more conservative release dates? Being aggressive with a release date is nice to stir up interest, but you wind up shooting yourself in the foot when you set an unrealistic goal, and and fail to meet that goal repeatedly.
That’s a good point.
At the same time, I’m sure that Sov. Press has to give some sort of date to distributors and retailers. Then matters become complicated. ;)
Originally posted by RandPC
I can't help but wonder whether you might also be better off avoiding mention of the relatively low number of full time employees at SP working on DragonLance.
When Chris Coyle left there was a bit of talk of there only being a handful (3 I believe?) full time employees left and that you were presently relying upon a number of amateur writers. A handful of those writers being well known on this and other DragonLance forums as 'merely' being among the many DragonLance fans.
I've seen a number of people question whether that meant we were to expect an amteurish product, most specifically in reference to the upcoming DragonLance Bestiary.
Similarly I've seen a few question whether SP may be encountering financial difficulties and that was the reason. Others still have mentioned this as an excuse for the delays.
Really, the organization of Sovereign Press and their business matters are their business alone, and not anyone else’s. This also applies to who Sovereign Press hires to do freelance work for them. They’re not going to hire just any Joe Schmoe – they hire people with talent who have a love and passion for what they’re doing. Cam and Andre’ have done an outstanding job on the Bestiary, and I daresay it will be one of the top 3rd party monster books out there.
I find myself in the same boat as many of having started a KoD campaign with the Sylvan Key and getting stuck due to the release difficulties.
Here is what I have done:
Any of you who have got (or can get) Dungeon magazine, Issue 86, there is a great adventure in there called the Anvil of Time, which plucks adventurers from wherever they are on Krynn using a teleport system, runs them through a great dungeon bash (as well as introducing newbies to some of the history of DL) and then deposits them back at the moment that they were teleported away. No time lost, and my guess is about three or four 4-hour sessions of gaming. Its got some very basic ideas for changing the challenges to be suitable for 1st level rather than the 5th level PCs it was written for, but I am converting to 1st level at the moment (and 3.5), and will post my ideas when I have my downgrade version finished.
If you haven't already used it, it seems a great way to hold the PCs up until KoD is hopefully released.
Hope that helps.
Simon Collins
PS Christopher, if you can give any thoughts on how to bridge the gap, they would be much appreciated, I'm sure.
Originally posted by lorac75
Well, SP has officially lost my money if this is true. Disgraceful.
Im sorry but im throwing the towel too, I give up on waiting, Im a new fan of dragonlance I bought the two books and the novels hoping to play in a new world, I was drawn to Dragonlance because of two things, 1.- Some frinds had played it in 2nd edition and told me the campiagn was exelent and now that it was reviving for 3rd ed. it would be great, 2.- ( and most important) There was promised a trilogy of adventures, that was going to take the players from level 1 to 20.
I dont have time to write adventures I ha ve only the time to read at night and I cant be thinking in D&D (or Dragonlance) the whole day, I cant wait more for this adventure and keep my players playing with some characters that are going to dump because later when the adventure comes up they will need to be 1st level, If I had started a the Sylvan key in december I will be bashing my head on the wall right now, Thankfully I started las friday thinking that SP "WAS" going to reallease KOD in the next 3 weeks, now I can return to my other characters (9th level) and buy an adventure already released for that level.
What a disapointment and waste of money.
P.S. Also on a side note to SP: Ignoring the e-mails of your customers is a bad way to make business, I send 2 mails asking for the relase dates of KOD the frist days of february and went unanswered a simple "we dont know yet" would have been perfect but ignoring the e-mails was not a good idea thats other reason im giving up on your company.
Originally posted by frostdawn
[b]QUOTE]Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Instead, SP has short changed themselves on unrealistic release dates almost a half dozen times for this one product. That means the product is massively late from the perspective of the consumer, and we start to get annoyed.
I'm not sure where exactly what standards you're setting for release dates...but by my count, they've only missed 1 (maybe 2) dates that I would construe as "official," and that would be the first one and when they said "November." Since then...there have been no true mentions of a date. But fans have been begging for at least an "idea" of when it might be ready...so they've been given "ideas"...but no dates.
And aside from that...it's only been 3 different times (Sept, Nov, and Feb) that it might be released...certainly not "half a dozen."
Now...granted, I'm just as frustrated as the next guy that the product is 5 months late (roughly)...but I'm not going to make matters worse by trumping up the charges against the company. It's a late product...not one that keeps missing it's street date. There is a difference after all.
~B4Real
I have suggested as have others that they release the module in PDF format fo a reduced price or at least the intro for free. Someone replied "Sovreign Press is in business to make money."
Seriously are there any non "talent" people working at SP? If so, they need to fire them. If not they need to hire some, quickly.
I have suggested as have others that they release the module in PDF format fo a reduced price or at least the intro for free. Someone replied "Sovreign Press is in business to make money."
Seriously, are there any non "talent" people working at SP? If so, they need to fire them. If not they need to hire some, quickly.
Originally posted by lorac75
Part of my problem with this whole thing is the people involved in this product either ignore the questions people have about the product.
Maybe it's because those people are working hard to try and get this stuff out ASAP, and don't have the time to spend combing through all the possible on-line venues (boards, lists, newsgroups, etc.) to answer everyone's comments that are little more that whiny insults anyway. Almost all constructive comments on this issue were made months ago...now it's just spiraling out of control into a bickering argument that does nothing but go around in circles (yeah, and I'm guilty too). But...that's just my take on the situation.
Originally posted by lorac75
Seriously are there any non "talent" people working at SP? If so, they need to fire them. If not they need to hire some, quickly.
What in the Abyss does that mean? That doesn't even make any sense...
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Really, the organization of Sovereign Press and their business matters are their business alone, and not anyone else’s. This also applies to who Sovereign Press hires to do freelance work for them. They’re not going to hire just any Joe Schmoe – they hire people with talent who have a love and passion for what they’re doing. Cam and Andre’ have done an outstanding job on the Bestiary, and I daresay it will be one of the top 3rd party monster books out there.
I didn't mean to imply otherwise, in fact I agree wholeheartedly- it is their business, which is specifically why I think it shouldn't be public knowledge as it can tend to give the wrong impression to the uninformed public.
Originally posted by Brimstone
Maybe it's because those people are working hard to try and get this stuff out ASAP, and don't have the time to spend combing through all the possible on-line venues (boards, lists, newsgroups, etc.) to answer everyone's comments that are little more that whiny insults anyway. Almost all constructive comments on this issue were made months ago...now it's just spiraling out of control into a bickering argument that does nothing but go around in circles (yeah, and I'm guilty too). But...that's just my take on the situation.What in the Abyss does that mean? That doesn't even make any sense...
Your guess is as good as mine.
~B4Real
Originally posted by SimonCollins
PS Christopher, if you can give any thoughts on how to bridge the gap, they would be much appreciated, I'm sure.
Well, there are a couple of things you can do to bridge the gap until KoD comes out.
The first thing is getting the characters to Pashin. Knowing the typical roleplayers, they're going to want to play a wide variety of characters from across the spectrum... so start off by getting them together and giving them a reason to get to Pashin.
For an elf, this could be a relative has been found hiding in Pashin, a Solamnic squire sent on his first 'quest' to retrieve an heirloom, a gnome in pursuit of his life's quest, etc.
It could very easily take three or four gaming sessions, depending upon the players, to get them there. I might even see about going ahead and throwing together a "mini-adventure" and sending it Jamie's way as a stop gap measure for everyone until Key of Destiny comes out. Although it would only be a few thousand words with my simple hand-drawn maps (if any) and little to no artwork, but I'll see if I can squeeze in working on something... hopefully next week?
Once KoD comes out, it's not really all that difficult to modify the encounter levels, slice out a few of the random/optional encounters to make up lost time. Like I said, I'm on these boards almost every day (unless I'm out and about doing the whole 'Oooo, I still have a tourist mentality so must go see the Tower of London or Hadrian's Wall this weekend!
), so I'm always more than willing to answer what questions I can.Do remember though that I am only a freelancer for Sovereign Press now, so I have no more information about release dates, hold ups, or anything about the company than any one else does. However, I do know that Jamie & Renae are working their hardest to get things done!
Christopher
Originally posted by Stormprince
It could very easily take three or four gaming sessions, depending upon the players, to get them there. I might even see about going ahead and throwing together a "mini-adventure" and sending it Jamie's way as a stop gap measure for everyone until Key of Destiny comes out. Although it would only be a few thousand words with my simple hand-drawn maps (if any) and little to no artwork, but I'll see if I can squeeze in working on something... hopefully next week?
I could assist you on that if you'd like a hand. You can send me the map sketches and I could make them presentable for posting. :D
Originally posted by Kipper Snifferdoo
I could assist you on that if you'd like a hand. You can send me the map sketches and I could make them presentable for posting. :D
Cool, works for me! I'll talk to Jamie 'bout this today if I can and see 'bout startin' to plan something
I did remember that for it to be "official," it will have to go through WotC, but as it'll be a pretty short mini-adventure and will be a .pdf, I cannot see this taking all too long
Christopher
Yet, this is not the days of years past. Today, people have choices. Many choices.
And if people are going to invest $60 or more into something, and then have to wait six months or more for something else substantial to use for a setting, I think they're just as likely to take that $60 and invest it elsewhere to begin with.
This isn't a criticism, this is just the way it is - I don't honestly think that, with the competition out there, as well as DL's past track record, that SP can afford these delays.
Originally posted by lorac75
Someone replied "Sovreign Press is in business to make money."
Seriously, are there any non "talent" people working at SP? If so, they need to fire them. If not they need to hire some, quickly.
What I meant is are there any business people working at Sovreign Press? If there are they are doing a very poor job.
Let me use a publishing example to make my point. It took George Perez nearly 3 years to pencil and ink JLA/Avengers for Marvel and DC. Both companies decided not to solicit a single issue until all 4 issues were pencilled. Fans were clamoring for this with great anticipation, but they knew they weren't going to see anything until it was near completion. To make a long story short the first 3 issues came out on time and the 4th issue is about 8 weeks late (Perez got tendonitis drawing 300+ characters on the cover of issue 3, which no one could forsee). Fans aren't overly mad about this delay because they got three issues on time and understand the physical problem George encountered. The point is fans got 3 quality products on time due to good business decisions as oppossed to an 8-9 month interval between issues with a 4 or 5 missed release dates per issue.
Using this as a model get the product completely finished and ready to go to press, then add three to four months and there's the release date. The original release date for this product and the current state of affairs indicate that this product was far from completion when the first date was missed. I'm sorry but this is poor business.
Originally posted by Brimstone
I'm not sure where exactly what standards you're setting for release dates...but by my count, they've only missed 1 (maybe 2) dates that I would construe as "official," and that would be the first one and when they said "November." Since then...there have been no true mentions of a date. But fans have been begging for at least an "idea" of when it might be ready...so they've been given "ideas"...but no dates.
And aside from that...it's only been 3 different times (Sept, Nov, and Feb) that it might be released...certainly not "half a dozen."
Now...granted, I'm just as frustrated as the next guy that the product is 5 months late (roughly)...but I'm not going to make matters worse by trumping up the charges against the company. It's a late product...not one that keeps missing it's street date. There is a difference after all.
IIRC, the original release date was around October. It was rumored that the date was pushed back to November. In November, I started checking with local retailers to see what they came up with, they said the publisher was saying December sometime (B Dalton, Books a Million, and Barnes & Noble) The Dragonlance.com site still lists the KOD as being released in January (http://www.dragonlance.com/d20/product.asp?id=SVP-4001) and the "official" dates from retailers and the forum said february. This very thread is saying March, and StormPrince isn't denying it either. That's 5 "official" and 1 unofficial (November) I consider what the retailers to say somewhat official since they get their dates from the publishers, and don't make things up. If they don't have a date, they say so. I'm not one given to hyperbole, but rather what I've seen/witnessed. This amounts to the half dozen missed dates I was referring to.
Originally posted by frostdawn
This amounts to the half dozen missed dates I was referring to.
I was unaware of the January date...and I've never heard anyone (book store or otherwise) say December. And I don't believe February was even an official street date.
We're debating something but our information is conflicting...so I don't think we're gonna get anywhere on this. You think these were official dates, I think they were just "tide me over" dates that were given as estimates because the fans really needed to know.
Oh well...the end result is still the same, I guess.
Originally posted by Brimstone
We're debating something but our information is conflicting...so I don't think we're gonna get anywhere on this. You think these were official dates, I think they were just "tide me over" dates that were given as estimates because the fans really needed to know.
I think this was the case, yes.
Oh well...the end result is still the same, I guess.
True enough.
There really isn’t much point in debating this further. We can all play “arm chair RPG company” all we want, but the truth of the matter is that only Sovereign Press knows why they have had delays. None of the rest of us know the full story, and so we really are not qualified to hand out advice on “what should have been done”.
At my job, they have a saying: “The view is worth the climb.” Basically, this means that the road may be a rough one, but the results are well worth it.
I feel that applies here as well. We’re at the point where the climb seems roughest. Yet the climb will be over soon enough, and I have to say – what a view!
So be patient, my friends. We’ll see that view soon enough.
I’m sorry that we haven’t posted any new announcements regarding Key of Destiny yet, mostly because we are working very hard on resuming our printing schedule! There have been several reasons for the delay, but the most important information is that the product will soon be going through a final round of approvals with our licensor, Wizards of the Coast. It will then immediately go to press, and as soon as we have a ship date from the printer we will announce a final street date.
In the meantime, we are going to explore the possibility of posting a free sample PDF containing the first full chapter of Key of Destiny to post on Dragonlance.com. This will allow people to “try before they buy” and to begin playing while they await the print version of the product. Keep your eye on Dragonlance.com for more news on this front.
Thanks for your patience. We hope you’ll be pleased with the final result.
Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by jechambers
Thanks for your patience. We hope you’ll be pleased with the final result.
All good news, Jamie!!
Thanks for the update!
I was just thinking over what to do with my players when I came across your post Jamie and that's really good to hear. I'm glad that SP is still hard at work on DL and this just helps to reinforce my belief that the company isn't giving up on or ignoring their fans.
Keep up the good work, and I look forward to the sample!
P.S. It's also very heartening to here you're so dedicated to the DL fans Chris, and willing to take time out of your day to throw an adventure together for us. That really shows a passion for your work, which means the modules should be all that much better.
so feel free to pick my brain.
Pick.
Is the Key of Destiny adventure combat heavy like most of the WoTC adventures ? If so then I will know to have my pc's roll up 2-3 spare characters in advance.
:D
~B4Real
Originally posted by B4Real
Pick.
Is the Key of Destiny adventure combat heavy like most of the WoTC adventures ? If so then I will know to have my pc's roll up 2-3 spare characters in advance.
:D
~B4Real
*laughs!* Nah, not quite. While yes, there is definitely combat encounters, there is also a considerable amount of investigation, roleplaying, puzzle solving, enigmas and the like. But then, as I've discovered, mileage may vary from one group to another as to the definition of combat heavy ;)
And it's excellent Jamie's gonna post Chapter One... with that one alone, there should be numerous sessions of RP available since that one revolves around Pashin in particular, so it becomes a great little resource even for the Sylvan Key and other adventuring within Pashin.
Christopher
Originally posted by Thrawn
Where can I get the Sylvan Key adventure?
It's in the back of the Dragonlance Campaign Setting hardcover. Which is still probably on sale at Amazon for 60% off, in case you were waffling over buying it.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by jechambers
Good morning, everyone.
I’m sorry that we haven’t posted any new announcements regarding Key of Destiny yet, mostly because we are working very hard on resuming our printing schedule! There have been several reasons for the delay, but the most important information is that the product will soon be going through a final round of approvals with our licensor, Wizards of the Coast. It will then immediately go to press, and as soon as we have a ship date from the printer we will announce a final street date.
In the meantime, we are going to explore the possibility of posting a free sample PDF containing the first full chapter of Key of Destiny to post on Dragonlance.com. This will allow people to “try before they buy” and to begin playing while they await the print version of the product. Keep your eye on Dragonlance.com for more news on this front.
Thanks for your patience. We hope you’ll be pleased with the final result.
Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Coolio
@Jamie. I like how you guys(and girls) handled that dilemna shows class. ;)
~B4Real
I don't mean to be impatient or intrusive- I'm just curious
Me and my three closest friends could have written a great adventure inside of two weeks if we wanted to. Especially if it was our JOB and we were being payed to do it. I know some of you might argue how it has to get approved by WOTC and then go to print but it's not even in that phase yet. If after spending more than four months trying to make a good adventure they're still not done, I have to believe they'll never complete a decent adventure much less a good one.
I get the impression this adventure will never be released. I'm even wondering if SP is just going bankrupt. Seriously 3 people on this board alone have already decided not to buy it. Based on the numbers used by magazine editors, one complaint often means there are one hundred people who felt the same way and didn't complain. so right there we could say they lost 300 people who would've bought KoD if SP would have had the decency to give a realistic schedule or at least make amends to their supporters after failing miserably to stick to their own schedule.
DnD 3rd Ed had a new book coming out each month ON TIME. Now very few people play 2ed anymore and everyone was thrilled when 3rd came out. Saying SP is a small organization is no excuse for the way we've been treated after spending our hard earned money on the first two books released. Those books were not cheap and I'm sure KoD won't be either.
As for me, my group and I are back to Forgotten Realms. Their material comes out on time, and there's plenty of it.
One last thing, Would it have been so hard to include a map of Krynn with the Core Rulebooks? The FR campaign book had two in the book, and one big foldout map.
I heard the official response to why there was no map was "A kender stole it" I haven't seen this myself but I don't think it was made up.
Originally posted by Taskr36
Wow, this is just pathetic... The original release date was scheduled for October. I'm not going to bother arguing about how many times it was pushed back. That's been done and Brimstone had to argue what dates were official vs. tide me over dates. The fact is it's been FOUR MONTHS since it was supposed to be released and I have to believe they had at least started writing it before that.
Yes, it's completely true that our schedule has slid. We should have done early on what we're doing now--not providing another release date until we get a ship date from the printer. I'm sorry if that makes Margaret, Renae, and myself "pathetic" but there you have it.
Me and my three closest friends could have written a great adventure inside of two weeks if we wanted to. Especially if it was our JOB and we were being payed to do it. I know some of you might argue how it has to get approved by WOTC and then go to print but it's not even in that phase yet. If after spending more than four months trying to make a good adventure they're still not done, I have to believe they'll never complete a decent adventure much less a good one.
If things were as simple as they might seem to you from the outside, then I would deserve to be fired for not seeing this product through. I will leave it to those I work with frequently to decide just whether I am working hard enough or not.
I get the impression this adventure will never be released. I'm even wondering if SP is just going bankrupt. Seriously 3 people on this board alone have already decided not to buy it. Based on the numbers used by magazine editors, one complaint often means there are one hundred people who felt the same way and didn't complain. so right there we could say they lost 300 people who would've bought KoD if SP would have had the decency to give a realistic schedule or at least make amends to their supporters after failing miserably to stick to their own schedule.
I'm sorry that you come away with the impression that Key of Destiny will never come out, but it will be published soon. Whether or not you choose to purchase it is your choice as a consumer.
DnD 3rd Ed had a new book coming out each month ON TIME. Now very few people play 2ed anymore and everyone was thrilled when 3rd came out. Saying SP is a small organization is no excuse for the way we've been treated after spending our hard earned money on the first two books released. Those books were not cheap and I'm sure KoD won't be either.
Delays aside, you are saying that you--as our customer--have been mistreated? I guess you and I have different views when it comes to buying a product. When I purchase a game product, to me it is a complete purchase, and does not imply a subscription or contract with the company that publishes it. No one has asked you for a down-payment on Key of Destiny. Either buy it or not, as you choose, when it comes out.
I agree that a company should stick to its schedule, regardless of size. However, having a larger staff allows you to compensate for unexpected problems much easier than a smaller one. My wife worked with Fast Forward Entertainment for two years, a company that had full-time employees in charge of design, editing, graphic design, and production management--and still even they experienced delays, even on the magazines they published. For some time it was Chris Coyle and I working on production for Sovereign Press. Now it's just me.
I work by a production schedule geared towards making a quality product and releasing on-time. There are some things that have happened in the last six months that I simply cannot discuss on a public forum. However, here are the things I can tell you about:
(1) Our production staff was cut in half, when Christopher Coyle left the company and moved overseas.
(2) We have terminated our business partnership with Fast Forward Entertainment, who used to do our sales and marketing.
(3) We have relocated our offices twice.
I don't like making excuses in matters of business, and if I had not done my best for the company during these times I would not deserve the job I feel lucky to have. But the three members of my company, Margaret Weis, Renae Chambers, and myself have worked very hard to recover from the previously mentioned difficulties and others.
As for me, my group and I are back to Forgotten Realms. Their material comes out on time, and there's plenty of it.
Enjoy! Wizards of the Coast is the leading game company in the industry, and they have quality staff writers and a pool of talented freelancers.
One last thing, Would it have been so hard to include a map of Krynn with the Core Rulebooks? The FR campaign book had two in the book, and one big foldout map.
I heard the official response to why there was no map was "A kender stole it" I haven't seen this myself but I don't think it was made up.
I don't know who said "a kender stole it," and if it was said it was most certainly in jest. Right now you seem to be confusing Wizards of the Coast and Sovereign Press. Wizards published the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, while we only worked as freelance writers for the project. We might have included a map in Age of Mortals, but we did not know that the DLCS would not include a map until long after Age of Mortals was off to press. Our current plans are to include a poster map in the War of the Lance sourcebook.
Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.
www.sovpress.com
Originally posted by jechambers
Delays aside, you are saying that you--as our customer--have been mistreated? I guess you and I have different views when it comes to buying a product. When I purchase a game product, to me it is a complete purchase, and does not imply a subscription or contract with the company that publishes it. No one has asked you for a down-payment on Key of Destiny. Either buy it or not, as you choose, when it comes out.www.sovpress.com
My reference as to how we've beeen treated was reffering to constantly being given different release dates. People here are literally starving for an official dragonlance adventure. By moving the release date back every month you are practically teasing us saying, "just one more month and it'll be done", only to delay it yet another month.
Originally posted by Taskr36
That's been done and Brimstone had to argue what dates were official vs. tide me over dates. The fact is it's been FOUR MONTHS since it was supposed to be released and I have to believe they had at least started writing it before that.
Yes...I absolutely "had" to! It's in my blood! I needed to take a moot point and pound it in to the ground.
That's what you really meant to say, wasn't it? ;)
Anyway...what I'm not going to do is ostracize a company for one delay. Yes it's been several months...and yes it has effected more than one product...but it does appear that this is all just one delay. (and Jamie's most recent post does seem to support this). And I don't understand why you're so angry and so personally insulted by this.
Originally posted by jechambers
I don't like making excuses in matters of business.
Chin up, Jamie...not everyone is taking it personally like this. I hesitate to call it a minority thought, though...just because I'd only be guessing one way or another. But I do know that you all still have strong supporters.
Myself as the gamemaster have to bring forth a new adventure in the coming tenday, so to say (old FR habits, you know
.At the moment I no longer believe KoD will be out in time for me to play at the end of Feb, although I already ordered the product via premium express courier from oversea at amazon.
So, my only chance to begin play with KoD will be the .pdf file of the first chapter, because I believe, that the first chapter will last long enough for the weekend
I already got them through the Pashin adventure and even further in the now Minotaur occupied Silvanesti forest, leaving adventure hooks for a possible Ogre/ Minotaur alliance and even a possible elven backstrike.
At the moment, my players are Level 3, advancing fast, beacuse of the nature of advancement in D&D 3.5.
I would be very pleased to see the first chapter released before the end of Feb
Thx,
Rorin
What might be more constructive than all this whining is some suggestions on how to get a party to Pashin and keep them busy for a while. I'm sure many of us who are waiting for Key of Destiny could use such advice, myself included.
And I have to say, I'd be pressed to find another company more dedicated to their customers. I mean, at Gencon Jamie made a trip all the way to Chicago (If memory serves) to rescue the Age of Mortals from customs. What dedication! to both his work and the Dragonlance fans. I was impressed, and continue to be.
Keep of the great work!
But, I would like to see if my curiosity could be satisfied...is there any updates on the sample chapter pdf?
~B4Real
Originally posted by Shadowalk Nimblefeet
What might be more constructive than all this whining is some suggestions on how to get a party to Pashin and keep them busy for a while. I'm sure many of us who are waiting for Key of Destiny could use such advice, myself included.
I was considering this as well, and giving SP the BOTD (benefit of the doubt) that KOD will be ready sometime in March. The plan is, the party is out at sea, and they make landfall near Pashin. For suggestions, maybe the vessel the party is travelling in is damaged by weather or battle, and the shoreline near Pashin is the landfall that comes up. Maybe a journey at sea finds itself in Pashin due to the gods' "urging" through weather manipulation, etc.
Barring sea travel, there are lots of reasons to draw parties toward Pashin. The rumored Titan sightings/uprising north of Silvanost could lead there. Investigating Minotaur actions in Silvanesti could lead a party there. Maybe the party is hired to find a lost refugee from Silvanost who is believed to be alive. Maybe a search for Alhanna and/or Samar? In the current climate of Krynn, Pashin is in the center of some of the larger developments in the world, so finding a reason to steer a group there should be relatively easy. The tricky part is finding enough things for them to do, and stay in the area until KOD is ready, essentially stalling for time with the adventure.
Dunno, just some suggestions. I'd still like to get KOD, provided it's released relatively soon (like within the next month or so)
Originally posted by Shadowalk Nimblefeet
And I have to say, I'd be pressed to find another company more dedicated to their customers. I mean, at Gencon Jamie made a trip all the way to Chicago (If memory serves) to rescue the Age of Mortals from customs. What dedication! to both his work and the Dragonlance fans. I was impressed, and continue to be.
Yeah, Jamie had a long, hard trip up there from GenCon.
The cool part was when he walked into the Dragonlance reception with a box of Age of Mortals in his hands. The timing couldn't have been better.
That, my friends, is indeed dedication.
Originally posted by Shadowalk Nimblefeet
And I have to say, I'd be pressed to find another company more dedicated to their customers. I mean, at Gencon Jamie made a trip all the way to Chicago (If memory serves) to rescue the Age of Mortals from customs. What dedication! to both his work and the Dragonlance fans. I was impressed, and continue to be.
Keep of the great work!
But, I would like to see if my curiosity could be satisfied...is there any updates on the sample chapter pdf?
Thanks for the support, guys. Yes, I did drive my van from Indianapolis to Chicago to pick up the product. I'd like to publicly thank my friend Bob Krammes (who by an astounding coincidence shares a name with a city in Sovereign Stone) for going down there with me between trips from the customs office, to the shipping receiver, and back again, and back to Indiana. The fans at the reception gave me a hero's welcome, and it made the whole trip worthwhile and memorable.
On the PDF front, we're still working on it, but once we get approval we could have it up on www.dragonlance.com within 24 hours. I'll keep everyone posted!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
~B4Real
I look forward to reading the PDF and eventually buying KoD. My original DL campaign ran into moderatly high levels and I eventually let it come to a conclusion awhile back. No biggie, with 5 of the 6 guys in my game group expirienced DMs there's always another campaign to switch to. Still I've been promising, (or threatening depending on how one looks at it) to revisit Krynn once KoD comes out, and I'm itching to get back to the right side of the screen.
Besides I have to put my new DL screen to work don't I?
I'm annoyed about the release dates too, but constantly whining about it probably won't help release it any faster. Even assuming the whining does cause a faster release or on-time release, and quality suffers as a result, then no doubt the same people complaining about the delayed release will then complain about the bad quality. Go figure.
Originally posted by Taskr36
Me and my three closest friends could have written a great adventure inside of two weeks if we wanted to.
Why don't you then? Seriously. The main reason people use official published adventures is because they lack the time/effort/patience/whatever to create their own adventure. I myself very rarely make use of published adventures, simply because it's easier for me to make up my own. Since it's apparently easier for you to come up with your own adventure, why not go ahead and do so. That way, any delays in the procedure can only be chocked up to yourself and/or those that aid you.
As for maintaining continuity by running an official adventure ... why bother? Simply running your own campaign destroys continuity in and of itself.
I look forward to the pdf, and will keep my fingers crossed that getting approval doesn't take too long.
My friend and I were really enthused when you came into the DL reception at Gencon with the Age of Mortals, and you certainly deserved the hero's welcome.
Don't worry, I'm just kidding...(CALL ME!)
But anyways, I love the work you guys do. I actually don't think that the editing was that bad on the DLCS and AoM, and I think that they were both quality books. I about crushed my aunt's unborn baby when she presented me with the Age of Mortals this Christmas.
Funny thing is...I don't even remember how I found out about you guys...all I remember is that somehow I made it to your Sovereign Stone site and downloaded the sample adventure and adapted it to my campagn(at the time, I didn't have the DLCS, which would have made it a lot easier to duplicate the NPCs), and both the Necromancer Jaryn and the Bandit Gelwyn are now villains we are determined to defeat(in fact, as it turns out, Gelwyn slaughtered one of the player's home village...go figure. I was the one speaking for him, and *I* didn't even expect it). I also *LOVE* the DM Screen, and the info on monsters in the booklet *REALLY* helps me out all the time, especially in finding a place fo rthe Celestial Paragons from the Book of Exaulted Deeds into DL. And, I think that Key of Destiny will be awesome, but it won't be released until it's released, and there's no point in complaining about it. And besides, it's not their fault. Things happen. Maybe it would be better for you people who keep complaining not to think of Sov. Press as a faceless company ran by robots(we all know that Weis is the only robot working there, lol), but as actual people, with actual human limitations.
Heh. I remember not too long ago, when the product list was first given, when people were complaining how they were releasing things too fast, and there was no way they could keep up with it. Sigh. Oh well.
PS: Remember, Jamie. In about 6 or so years, after I finish with high school and college, I'm going up there and am going to work for you, so if anything crazy pops into your head like maybe you guys should *STOP* making Dragonlance products or close down or something, think that you'd have a very disgruntled employee on your hands, who's a good shot with a rubber-dart gun.
Christopher Posner
Originally posted by cnposner
I do not know what has happened about this since then.
Come on, man...if you're going to post a question like this...the least you can do is read the thread you posted it in...only 7 posts up from yours, your question is answered.
Originally posted by jechambers
(2) We have terminated our business partnership with Fast Forward Entertainment, who used to do our sales and marketing.
Is this going to affect SP future plans for Data Sets for DL?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going for the “irritated consumer” with a bleak view towards SP but since I’ve seen Data Sets done by FFE I had assume they would probably be doing the DL Data Sets.
Jamie, thanks for taking the time to come to these boards and speak up for your work, but If I may ask, how come we never see Weis do the same?
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
Is this going to affect SP future plans for Data Sets for DL?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not going for the “irritated consumer” with a bleak view towards SP but since I’ve seen Data Sets done by FFE I had assume they would probably be doing the DL Data Sets.
Jamie, thanks for taking the time to come to these boards and speak up for your work, but If I may ask, how come we never see Weis do the same?
The simple answer is that Margaret is even busier than I am. And though she can certainly speak for our game line, she often doesn't feel "qualified" to comment on game rules that she isn't very familiar with. She told me she was planning on keeping an eye on the forums at Dragonlance.com, and was very excited about their book club.
I try to check the message boards at least once every few days and respond to important issues. I also subscribe to the DL-L mailing list.
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by iltharanos
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Taskr36
Me and my three closest friends could have written a great adventure inside of two weeks if we wanted to. Especially if it was our JOB and we were being payed to do it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why don't you then? Seriously. The main reason people use official published adventures is because they lack the time/effort/patience/whatever to create their own adventure. I myself very rarely make use of published adventures, simply because it's easier for me to make up my own. Since it's apparently easier for you to come up with your own adventure, why not go ahead and do so. That way, any delays in the procedure can only be chocked up to yourself and/or those that aid you.
As for maintaining continuity by running an official adventure ... why bother? Simply running your own campaign destroys continuity in and of itself.
Ok, if my group and I get together and write an adventure, then how praytell do I run them through it? That's like writing a book and reading it yourself to figure out the ending.
The fact is I have a job and don't have the time to sit down and write one adventure after another, Unlike SP nobody is paying me to write adventures. If I write one for my group I must do it alone and without help since I can't have them knowing what will happen. If I were working for a company like SP and it was mine and my groups job to write an adventure for other people to play then as I said we could easily complete it in less than the five months we have waited for KoD to be finished.
If you're wondering why I'm waiting for an official adventure, it's because almost nothing has been published on how the world is with the return of the gods. Sp far the only novel out is Night of Blood. The DL sourcebook provides very few adventure hooks for the various regions especially with regards to Post-War of Souls happenings.
Originally posted by Taskr36
Ok, if my group and I get together and write an adventure, then how praytell do I run them through it? That's like writing a book and reading it yourself to figure out the ending.
The fact is I have a job and don't have the time to sit down and write one adventure after another, Unlike SP nobody is paying me to write adventures. If I write one for my group I must do it alone and without help since I can't have them knowing what will happen. If I were working for a company like SP and it was mine and my groups job to write an adventure for other people to play then as I said we could easily complete it in less than the five months we have waited for KoD to be finished.
Oi! I am so not even gonna touch this last one. Writing time does not equate publishing time, considering editing, commissioning artwork, maps, going into layout, getting it through WotC, then having to do any changes asked, then resubmit... official networking always takes more time. Period.
Jamie's doing the best that he can, as is the rest of Sovereign Press. Snags do come up, they always do. It's not like SP is alone in the whole delays stuff... heck, look at how some DL novels alone have been delayed at times!
Christopher
Originally posted by Stormprince
Oi! I am so not even gonna touch this last one. Writing time does not equate publishing time, considering editing, commissioning artwork, maps, going into layout, getting it through WotC, then having to do any changes asked, then resubmit... official networking always takes more time. Period.
It has not even gone through WOTC, nor has it been published. From what I gather it is still, or has just finished, being written. If it had been written in October and the problem was all the approvals and publishing time, then I wouldn't be complaining, at least not about SP. I wouldn't even complain if they'd finished "writing" it in December. What bugs me is it took or is still taking them so long just to write it, and I have to believe they started it before October.
Originally posted by Taskr36
The fact is I have a job and don't have the time to sit down and write one adventure after another, Unlike SP nobody is paying me to write adventures. If I write one for my group I must do it alone and without help since I can't have them knowing what will happen. If I were working for a company like SP and it was mine and my groups job to write an adventure for other people to play then as I said we could easily complete it in less than the five months we have waited for KoD to be finished.
If my job were simply to write adventures, it would be done quickly and efficiently exactly as you described. However, writing and design is actually only the tiniest part of my job. You seem to be confusing the relatively straightforward process of writing and design with the complicated business of publishing.
From your perspective you cannot see any reason why a product you are waiting for has been delayed. From mine I see nothing but reasons, and you seem to imply either laziness or an ulterior motive in delaying the release of Key of Destiny. I can only give you my word that it is neither. If it were laziness, I would have been handed a pink slip long ago. And any ulterior motive for delaying a product would be far outweighed by the obvious goal of releasing the adventure and making the money that pays my salary.
I'm sorry to disappoint you or anyone else waiting for the adventure. We'd love to make every Dragonlance fan happy all of the time. But the truth is things will never be perfect, we can learn from past problems and try to avoid them in the future.
Take care!
Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by Taskr36
It has not even gone through WOTC, nor has it been published. From what I gather it is still, or has just finished, being written. If it had been written in October and the problem was all the approvals and publishing time, then I wouldn't be complaining, at least not about SP. I wouldn't even complain if they'd finished "writing" it in December. What bugs me is it took or is still taking them so long just to write it, and I have to believe they started it before October.
Um... I'm the bloody writer of Key of Destiny.... and I finished it awhile back, before I left Sovereign Press
Wanna try again?Christopher
Originally posted by Taskr36
It has not even gone through WOTC, nor has it been published. From what I gather it is still, or has just finished, being written. If it had been written in October and the problem was all the approvals and publishing time, then I wouldn't be complaining, at least not about SP. I wouldn't even complain if they'd finished "writing" it in December. What bugs me is it took or is still taking them so long just to write it, and I have to believe they started it before October.
I'm sorry to be curt here, but what you have "gathered" doesn't mean anything. If you think that Key of Destiny is still be written you are quite mistaken. Chris Coyle turned in the manuscript long ago. The reasons for the delay have NOTHING to do with the writing, editorial, or proofreading stage--which have been finished. But there is more to publishing, especially licensed publishing, than you seem to understand.
I've spent far too much time trying to defend my job on this board, and I'm not going to post anymore on this topic until there is something new to announce. Until then, I'll be working on getting our products out the door.
Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.
jamie is da man!!
Originally posted by jechambers
If it were laziness, I would have been handed a pink slip long ago.
How would one go about giving themselves a pink slip anyways?
Originally posted by silvanthalas
How would one go about giving themselves a pink slip anyways?
I only have a job as long as Margaret says so, and consequently I try to do my best every day!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by jechambers
I try to do my best every day!
Jamie Chambers
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Most of us know that and respect that. Although I was not at GenCon, from what I hear, your efforts to make sure that the Age of Mortals sourcebook there were nothing short of extraordinary. I don't think that there is a soul on this board that can disagree with that.
Most of us here know you are trying your hardest to get the Key of Destiny out, if you weren't you would have just said that it was not going to be released at all. I may not know a lot about publishing(college student, pre-Pharmacy...) but I can sure as heck think of a hundred possible things that can go wrong. I understand that the book is coming out late(although there was NEVER a concrete release date, so late is subjective here), and I know that it is not entirely SP's fault either. There is still some of February left, and if the book isn't out before then, so be it. Complaining that the book is "late" doesn't put it in my hands, now does it? Insulting Sovereign Press does not solve anything, if anything, it worsens things. Authors frequent these boards, if we treat them without respect, then they won't even give us the time of day.
I remember when 3.5 Edition was coming out and Andy Collins devoted large amounts of time to answering questions. He took all the crap that was dealt to him and still kept posting(though there was a point where he was angered enough to where he stopped for a while, can't blame him either). Jamie Chambers is the Andy Collins of DL. He doesn't have to post here, but he does. He doesn't have to work to get the opening chapter of the Key of Destiny out, but he does.
Keep on truckin there Jamie, I'm sure I'll be happy with the product once its in my hands. I trust you guys.
Originally posted by Nived
Remember, there are those of us who are waiting patiently.
Yep, and I can honestly say it will be worth the wait. ;)
Originally posted by Stormprince
Um... I'm the bloody writer of Key of Destiny
MAN! I didn't know writing was such bloodthirsty work. ;)
On another note, Chris, I cannot seem to access your web page, I get a "site note found" whenever using your posted url. I just figured your site was being held hostage by a disappointef player waiting for Key.
Originally posted by Elf_NFB
MAN! I didn't know writing was such bloodthirsty work. ;)
On another note, Chris, I cannot seem to access your web page, I get a "site note found" whenever using your posted url. I just figured your site was being held hostage by a disappointef player waiting for Key.
*laughs!* It could well be ;) Sorry 'bout that, unfortunately between me redesigning my website when I've got time between projects & problems with my webhost, it'll probably be down for another few weeks.... but it'll be up again soon, promise!
*makes mental note to put redirector up some time today!*
Christopher
Originally posted by cnposner
According to the www.dragonlance.com websiteKey of Destiny is now scheduled for April. Does anyone know whether this represents an estimate from the printer or just another date pulled out of a hat, and when exactly the release is likely to be.
Where did you hear about April? The current listing doesn't have a time estimate anymore, and even has a sales link to Amazon-
http://www.dragonlance.com/products/display.asp?id=338
Anybody know what is going on?
http://www.dragonlance.com/d20/product.asp?id=SVP-4201
Guys, what is going on now?
These dates should be accurate.
Originally posted by Taskr36
Buddy there has always been a sales link to Amazon. I clicked that link back in September when I pre-ordered Key of Destiny and was expecting it in October. I don't think anyone here will be suprised to see the release date pushed back to April, or even May for that matter.
I'm planning for either late may or early june for a release of KoD. I figure I have plenty to keep a party occupied until the adventure is released, whenever it happens. To reduce the logistical nightmare of trying to ramp up the challenge rating for higher lvl characters (which the group will invariably be once the adventure does release) I figure they'll just have rather easy encounters until the time comes when the adventure's CL catches up with the characters' average exp level.
The only thing I'm really worried about now though is once the group gets through the KoD, how long will the wait be for the next installment to the campaign? If the characters are in the middle of a major plot device of the campaign story, and have to wait for the next book in the campaign, I just hope it's not a 6-8 month wait...
If you really want to discuss this you can see my opinions stated more in depth on this thread. Drow, and their existance on Krynn is not the topic of this thread, nor is my signature. So lets drop it here.
***
Originally posted by DarkMath
April!!!!???? I hope that is early April.
***
Yeah well they say hope springs eternal...
Originally posted by Nived
I recall somewhere Cam or Jaime saying the module continuing from KoD has a slated November release date...
*crosses fingers hoping this won't be like the October release of KoD*
Seriously though, coming up with stalling tactics for a playing group before an adventure is one thing, but if they are in the midst of a major campaign, lead up to November or whenever, and the next book takes as long as KoD is, then we have to stall playing groups for 7 months or more. That will be particularly difficult when the group is repeatedly told about the importance of the Key of Quinari, and how the forces of evil will try to stop you, and how your actions will effect the world, and all of a sudden, you have 7 or more months of downtime. How do you explain that off to characters? "Your going to save the world, but the world isn't ready yet. Go save some cats stuck in trees or something for a couple months, we'll let you know when we're ready." Somehow, I don't think that will fly well with my gaming group. I don't mean to sound pessimistic, just realistic seeing as how the current module is going.
Originally posted by frostdawn
Seriously though, coming up with stalling tactics for a playing group before an adventure is one thing, but if they are in the midst of a major campaign, lead up to November or whenever, and the next book takes as long as KoD is, then we have to stall playing groups for 7 months or more.
If your group finishes Key of Destiny before the Spectre of Sorrows comes out, then you're either skipping a lot of the adventure or your sessions are inhumanly long or quick.
I think most groups will find that the downtime isn't long at all, and there's ample opportunity in the Key of Destiny for fleshing out the campaign in the event that you're moving through it a little too quickly for your tastes.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
If your group finishes Key of Destiny before the Spectre of Sorrows comes out, then you're either skipping a lot of the adventure or your sessions are inhumanly long or quick.
I think most groups will find that the downtime isn't long at all, and there's ample opportunity in the Key of Destiny for fleshing out the campaign in the event that you're moving through it a little too quickly for your tastes.
Cheers,
Cam
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to it wholeheartedly, and with everything it offers, I'm sure it could last until November. My concern is KoD was supposed to be released in October. We're going into 7 months now, and still no book. If Spectre of Sorrows does actually come out in november, that will be great, but all indicators point to it taking just as long as KoD (as nothing suggests it will be any easier or what not to produce). IF KoD comes out in April, the adventure needs to last 7 months until November in order for the campaign to progress smoothly. I'm worried that Spectre of Sorrows will suffer the same delays KoD has, and then we need to hope that KoD will last 14+ months or whenever Spectre is actually released. Then will Spectre last 14+ months for next book after that?
*Wondering how many loyal DL fans SP loses with every delay*
Originally posted by Taskr36
*Wondering how many loyal DL fans SP loses with every delay*
*Wondering if Taskr36 recognizes a dead horse when he beats one*
That's the best we can hope for.
This is Sovereign Press' first year with Dragonlance and, as such, there will be some growing pains. We're at the tail end of them, and things will improve for the future.
My friends, the best is yet to come. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm very excited about what the future of DL is to bring.
Long Live the Lance!
See, my sessions ARE inhumanly long (Usually 7+ hours a week), so they can race though any adventure in under two months. As such I have what I call my Secondary campaign where, if the product hasen't been released or if it's my own camapign and I haven't prepared for them to get that far, I can quickly switch over to the other campaign, as can they (After a little reminder as to wat was going on.)
Or, you can give a new DM's a chance to practice on a group, or run a quick one shot while you wait, it's not really that hard to come up with stuff to do between releases, although 7 months IS a bit much, it's not impossiable.
The quote in your sig reminds me of "Running to a Stand Still" from U2's Joshua Tree.
I can, however, make myself freely available to answer questions, provide hints & some pointers to anyone lookin' for 'em, although also tryin' my bloody hardest not to give away too much surprise information in each adventure...
So, if the time comes that your group reaches the end of KoD and Spectre's not out for a little while yet, feel free to drop me an email, holler at me here or on Dragonlance.com, and I'll give you some suggestions and the like.
Who knows? If I happen to find some free time in my schedule this summer, I was thinking of writing up some "fan-based" mini-adventures that spin off from the Key of Destiny as optional side quests and the like. But that's if I manage to find enough freelance work to keep me fed & clothed here in Jolly ol'England as well as not enjoyin' some quality vacation time with my S.O. ;)
But either way, like I said above, if you have any questions, concerns, comments, or just wanna gab, feel free to drop me an email at [email]ccoyle75@hotmail.com[/email], or just holler at me on one of the message boards
Christopher
Originally posted by Taskr36
*Wondering how many loyal DL fans SP loses with every delay*
Well none if the fans are truly loyal. ;)
Key of Destiny is going to be so sweet you're going to want to run it with characters that you're truly attached to. Look at the current downtime as a means to expiriment with all the great new races and classes to find the one you like best.
Originally posted by Brimstone
*Wondering if Taskr36 recognizes a dead horse when he beats one*
I'm wondering if he's ever posted about anything else but this kind of thing.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Stormprince
But either way, like I said above, if you have any questions, concerns, comments, or just wanna gab, feel free to drop me an email at [email]ccoyle75@hotmail.com[/email]
And I take it you'll respond? ;) :D
Originally posted by cnposner
Why we should believe the new date any more than the earlier ones beats me. They have missed at least three official dates (October, December, and January):to miss one date might look like a misfortune; to miss three certainly looks like carelessness.
"Hello Stick, meet Dead Horse. Dead Horse, this is..."
Originally posted by Kai Lord
And I take it you'll respond? ;) :D
I'm sure that would depend on who decides to take him up on it.
Cheers,
Cam
I am very surprised that, in view of the fact that the product was already long overdue, they had not secured approval from Wizards (a process which seems to be taking months) much earlier. They seem to have remembered only at the last moment when (so they claimed), they were just about to go to print. How incompetent can you get?
Of course, this is not particularly surprising in view of the fact that, of the three members of staff, one is an author, one a game designer, and the third deals with sales and marketing. There seems to be no one with any actual experience of publishing, and I suggest that they hire such a person before the whole business collapses. Every other publisher- barring a major financial crisis- gets its products out on time: and SP must meet the standards prevailing in the industry or go under.
Seriously, its time to move on. The module is awesome, it'll be out, we'll all love it, and everything will be fine. In the meantime, lets build a campfire and sing a couple of songs.
Originally posted by cnposner
Every other publisher- barring a major financial crisis- gets its products out on time: and SP must meet the standards prevailing in the industry or go under.
No, they don't. Not even WOTC gets all of its products out on time. Ghostwalk was delayed for almost a year. I don't think we need any more hyperbole regarding industry behavior.
Cheers,
Cam
No comment.
Having been in publishing for years now, I can however comment on the fact that publishers that actually get everything out on time... are few and far between. Heck, even comic book companies can't get their monthly titles always out on time, and they have a heck of a lot more people working for them than SP does.
*erks* Sorry, I said I wasn't gonna comment, so I'm not.
Christopher, Pleading the Fifth before he blows up again.
Originally posted by Kai Lord
"Hello Stick, meet Dead Horse. Dead Horse, this is..."
The horse isn't dead Kai Lord. You guys keep propping it back up. If the product was released in Febuary and we were complaining then we would be beating a dead horse. The fact that you guys keep giving us this "It'll be out next month" line is why you get complaints every month.
Cam, I have posted on several threads regarding several different topics. Everytime SP gives us a different date I feel they have earned yet another compalint. I am honestly suprised that people criticize me for complaining when it is SP who is over 6 months behind schedule. I can't keep track of how many different release dates there have been for KoD alone. I haven't even thought about all the other late products.
BTW other companies are occasionally late releasing material. However, they don't keep saying "It'll be out next month" every month. I can stand a delay. Heck I can stand two delays, but so far we are at 4 or 5 delays (based on release dates I've seen posted on dragonlance.com which IS OFFICIAL).
Originally posted by cnposner
I have recently spoken with Jamie Chambers on this matter.
[snip]
The only conversation that I've had with anyone outside the company about this recently was a caller that had such terrible static on the line that I could only understand every third word.
I'm about to get on a plane, people, so this will be my only comment on this subject for a while. I set the April release date both because I believe that an April release is achievable and to give information to the many people who have e-mailed and called me asking why the release date was listed as January on the website (such as the previously mentioned caller).
The product is late. Simple statement of fact. However, we have kept the retail price at $24.99 even though the product has grown half-again its original length (and now has a higher page count than the Bestiary). We have released almost 40 pages of free material so groups may get started playing. We are also going with a more expensive printer so that it can be printed quickly.
I could easily rattle off a dozen game companies that have missed release dates or delayed products who have taken none of these steps, and perhaps I understand the reason. There are some people that just aren't going to be pleased no matter what we do.
There has been a lot of speculation about the reasons for various delays, and now some are questioning my qualifications. (I am only a game designer, apparently, with no experience in publishing.) It is really easy to get discouraged.
I'll leave with one small ray of sunshine. The Bestiary of Krynn has been at the printer for a week, and I'll actually be meeting with some of that company's representatives while I'm in Las Vegas. I'm taking a gorgeous, full-color mockup of the product to display while we're at the show. (The Bestiary is being printed overseas, which is why it goes to the printer first but comes out after Key of Destiny.) I'm really excited about the product and have left all of the book's web previews with the good folks at Dragonlance.com. Keep checking every Wednesday for more Bestiary-goodness.
Thanks to all of you (even the complainers!) for being loyal Dragonlance fans and staying interested. I understand that you wouldn't complain if you didn't want the product. Just please remember one simple truth: No matter how much you want to see one of our products on a store shelf, I want it more.
Take care everyone!
Jamie Chambers
Vice President
Sovereign Press, Inc.
Originally posted by Taskr36
The horse isn't dead Kai Lord. You guys keep propping it back up. If the product was released in Febuary and we were complaining then we would be beating a dead horse. The fact that you guys keep giving us this "It'll be out next month" line is why you get complaints every month.
Cam, I have posted on several threads regarding several different topics. Everytime SP gives us a different date I feel they have earned yet another compalint. I am honestly suprised that people criticize me for complaining when it is SP who is over 6 months behind schedule. I can't keep track of how many different release dates there have been for KoD alone. I haven't even thought about all the other late products.
BTW other companies are occasionally late releasing material. However, they don't keep saying "It'll be out next month" every month. I can stand a delay. Heck I can stand two delays, but so far we are at 4 or 5 delays (based on release dates I've seen posted on dragonlance.com which IS OFFICIAL).
The horse IS dead Taskr36....Why, because yes....we all know it's late. Get over it. Give it a rest, we know your standpoint. Have you seen the web preview? First chapter of the adventure....40 pages of absolute awesomeness. If this is representative of the rest of the adventure that means the whole thing is stunning. If having a great product means its going to take longer than expected I say let them take all the time they need.
And, you are complaining about the product not being out on time? Well...Ill tell you when 'on time' is for any product. When its ready to be released to the public thats when.
Oh...And no one ever said it wasnt late....YOU just seem to be saying it an awful lot....Think we got your point.
Please take any complaints about Sovereign Press or their products directly to Sovereign Press.
*click*