Faith Burn psionic power? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Faith Burn psionic power?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
factol_rhys_dup
Feb 06, 2004 11:36:16 Alright, I had an idea for a psionic power to be used primarily in Planescape. I put it on the Planescape boards because I think it's best handled by planar cutters. Basically, a telepathy power that is designed to destroy exemplar. You overwhelm them with strands of opposing belief and it cancels out their material forms, causing massive disintegration damage. I'm not the best at handling new powers and spells on my own, so I'm wondering what other people think, and if anyone has any ideas for specifics. It should probably be fairly high in level (I'm thinking 5, if it ends up being on the lower end of the power scale I'm envisioning). You could only use the power against exemplar of an alignment which opposes your own. For example, a chaotic good psion could manifest it against a lawful and/or evil exemplar, and it would have the [Chaotic] and/or [Good] descriptors. This might be too powerful, especially if it's used in planescape. Maybe a balancing factor could be if it was separate powers for each alignment descriptor and only usable against outsiders with the opposite alignment descriptor.

One other idea I had was if the damage could be based on the hit dice of the target. A Gelugon is more LE than an Erinyes, so it's more caustic against a more powerful fiend.
#2
sildatorak
Feb 06, 2004 17:17:27 A good way of doing it would be to choose the opposed exemplar and have them take full damage, and the exemplars that share an alignment descriptor and don't have an opposite one would take 1/2 damage from it. So LN would fry Slaad and singe Eladrin and Tanar'ri, NE would lay the smack down on Guardinals and rough up Archons and Eladrin, a lawful fiend facing down a CG user would become an ex-Baatezu while Modrons and Yugoloths got nailed to their perch, etc.
#3
Ornum
Feb 06, 2004 18:14:04 To counteract the damage being related to the number of HD of the creature, you could use some type of psionic backlash. Say that the creature in question makes a save (or whatever) to avoid either some or all of the damage. Then the possibility would arise that the creature's own beliefs (being opposite of the character's) would seep throught the psychic link created in using this power, and harm the character manifesting the power. The damage from the backlash could either be based on the manifestor's HD, or the original target's HD, depending on which ever one seems appropriate and balanced.

Just a random thought, I'm sure that someone out there could refine this idea a bit better.
#4
factol_rhys_dup
Feb 06, 2004 23:16:47 That backlash idea is really cool. See, this whole concept is really planar. It's the sort of thing that makes planescape awesome. If we were playing Forgotten Realms, psionics would still be that creepy psychic power that made fireballs from the Astral Plane- "is that where you go when you die?"

The only thing that's a problem with the backlash idea, is that, unless an exemplar manifests the power, it wouldn't really affect him. At least, not beyond perhaps an overwhelming feeling of despair, or some such effect. Maybe for exemplar manifesting it, if they fail a manifester check to overcome Power Resistance they have to make a save themselves or they are subjected to it. That might be so slim of a chance that it wouldn't be worth the space to write in, but it is a cool aspect.
#5
MephitJames
Feb 08, 2004 11:05:40 I wouldn't make the damage dependent on the exemplar targeted. If you pour water on a block of salt, it dissolves x volume of the block regardless of what the total volume of the block is. You're right that a gelugon is more LE than an erinyes, but that just means there's more LE to get burned away in a gelugon than an erinyes. The damage should depend, though, on the psionicist's power, representing who much belief power he can safely wield.
I do like Sildatorak's "singing" idea, though, limits the power to make it balanced. What happens to a truly neutral psionicist, though?
#6
sildatorak
Feb 08, 2004 12:11:54 Maybe they have can buy the power multiple times and can choose any extreme alignment each time. That doesn't actually cut into the functionality of the spell, and a getting the power a second time isn't going to be as useful. Unless you choose an opposed pair, you're going to have overlap and the second will only give you one full damage and one 1/2 damage target instead of 1 and 2, respectively.
#7
factol_rhys_dup
Feb 08, 2004 12:20:12 While the idea that the power could singe some and burn others is definitely more balancing, it sort of short-changes some exemplar. Any self-respecting baatezu would tell you that it is not only wholly evil, but it's the worst kind of evil, too. They're not evil diluted with law, they're evil and law combined in the most sinister way possible.
#8
Ornum
Feb 08, 2004 12:20:41 Due to their immunity to telepathic attack, and the fact that being neutral in alignment, thus not having an polar opposite alignment, the rilmani would be immune to such an attack, wouldn't they?
#9
choleric_psion
Feb 08, 2004 15:26:24 Faith Burn should deal half damage against neutral creatures and double damage against creatures with a completely opposite algniment.

Here's an example: A LG psion has Faith Burn. His Faith Burn would only fully affect creatures that are chaotic and/or evil. The psion uses Faith Burn against a modron (LN). The modron only takes 2d8 points of damage because it has neutral in it's alignment. The psion uses the power again but this time against a devil (LE). The devil takes 4d8 because it is partly evil. The psion later uses Faith Burn of a yugoloth (NE). The yugoloth takes 6d8, 4d8 (for being evil)+2d8 (for being neutral). Finally, the psion uses Faith Burn against a demon (CE). Faith Burn would deal the demon 8d8, 4d8 (for being evil) +4d8 (for being chaotic).
#10
factol_rhys_dup
Feb 08, 2004 17:36:09 OK, so Choleric's system seems to work. According to that, the target takes [as of now 2d8 damage] per step away that it is from the manifester along each axis: the good-evil and the law-chaos axis, each are calculated separately.

Ornum, I don't know what the specifics are of the Rilmani's immunity to telepathic attacks. Going strictly by the book, if they are immune to mind-affecting abilities, then they're safe from this. If, however, it just says mental attacks, then that's probably referring to psionic attack modes.
#11
sildatorak
Feb 08, 2004 21:24:57 The problem with the system Choleric is proposing comes in when you consider a partially neutral manifester, at least from a rule lawyer point of view. A LN psion against a slaad would deal 4d8 against a Slaad (chaotic), but 6d8 against a Tanar'ri (non-neutral and chaotic). I know that's not what he means, but I think it is worth thinking about the phrasing when writing this up to avoid confusion.

As for a baatezu being less evil than a yugoloth, I don't think that is why the power would only singe the 'zu. I think of it more that in resistance against it, the 'zu can draw on its lawful nature to retain a stronger sense of identity against an attack that is trying to undo it by destroying its belief existance. The converse works from a slightly different point, but has the same effect. If you are trying to disrupt a baatezu with a blast of CG, your efforts are divided between the two types and it only partially affects a 'loth or modron.
#12
zombiegleemax
Feb 08, 2004 21:36:58 Wouldn't it be easier to say that the DCs are +2 for opposite alingments, then make a PrC?
#13
MephitJames
Feb 12, 2004 13:07:10
Originally posted by Sildatorak
As for a baatezu being less evil than a yugoloth, I don't think that is why the power would only singe the 'zu. I think of it more that in resistance against it, the 'zu can draw on its lawful nature to retain a stronger sense of identity against an attack that is trying to undo it by destroying its belief existance. The converse works from a slightly different point, but has the same effect. If you are trying to disrupt a baatezu with a blast of CG, your efforts are divided between the two types and it only partially affects a 'loth or modron.

I don't think Choleric was letting the baatezu off because it was less evil than the 'loth. The psion is directing two energies at the exemplar, one is lawful and one is good. He is manifesting his beliefs that everything should be structured and his beliefs that everyone should be helpful and kind-hearted. Any exemplar that are different from the psion on either axis get damage: 2d8 per step of difference. The baatezu is zero steps away on the law-chaos axis (0 x 2d8=0) and two steps away on the good-evil axis (2 x 2d8=4d8) so the baatezu gets 4d8 damage. A yugoloth is one step away law-chaoswise (1 x 2d8=2d8) and two steps away evil-goodwise (2 x 2d8=4d8) so he gets 6d8 damage (2d8 + 4d8). It's not that the 'zu is more evil, it's that the 'loth is more chaotic.

I don't agree that the baatezu would be less affected because of it's dual law-evil nature. Every exemplar has a dual nature that consists of the two components of alignment, some are just balanced. Having a neutral portion of your alignment isn't like not having that part. Think of neutral as grey, it's got equal parts of each component making it a shade in the middle.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 factol_rhys_dup Feb 06, 2004 11:36:16	Alright, I had an idea for a psionic power to be used primarily in Planescape. I put it on the Planescape boards because I think it's best handled by planar cutters. Basically, a telepathy power that is designed to destroy exemplar. You overwhelm them with strands of opposing belief and it cancels out their material forms, causing massive disintegration damage. I'm not the best at handling new powers and spells on my own, so I'm wondering what other people think, and if anyone has any ideas for specifics. It should probably be fairly high in level (I'm thinking 5, if it ends up being on the lower end of the power scale I'm envisioning). You could only use the power against exemplar of an alignment which opposes your own. For example, a chaotic good psion could manifest it against a lawful and/or evil exemplar, and it would have the [Chaotic] and/or [Good] descriptors. This might be too powerful, especially if it's used in planescape. Maybe a balancing factor could be if it was separate powers for each alignment descriptor and only usable against outsiders with the opposite alignment descriptor. One other idea I had was if the damage could be based on the hit dice of the target. A Gelugon is more LE than an Erinyes, so it's more caustic against a more powerful fiend.
#2 sildatorak Feb 06, 2004 17:17:27	A good way of doing it would be to choose the opposed exemplar and have them take full damage, and the exemplars that share an alignment descriptor and don't have an opposite one would take 1/2 damage from it. So LN would fry Slaad and singe Eladrin and Tanar'ri, NE would lay the smack down on Guardinals and rough up Archons and Eladrin, a lawful fiend facing down a CG user would become an ex-Baatezu while Modrons and Yugoloths got nailed to their perch, etc.
#3 Ornum Feb 06, 2004 18:14:04	To counteract the damage being related to the number of HD of the creature, you could use some type of psionic backlash. Say that the creature in question makes a save (or whatever) to avoid either some or all of the damage. Then the possibility would arise that the creature's own beliefs (being opposite of the character's) would seep throught the psychic link created in using this power, and harm the character manifesting the power. The damage from the backlash could either be based on the manifestor's HD, or the original target's HD, depending on which ever one seems appropriate and balanced. Just a random thought, I'm sure that someone out there could refine this idea a bit better.
#4 factol_rhys_dup Feb 06, 2004 23:16:47	That backlash idea is really cool. See, this whole concept is really planar. It's the sort of thing that makes planescape awesome. If we were playing Forgotten Realms, psionics would still be that creepy psychic power that made fireballs from the Astral Plane- "is that where you go when you die?" The only thing that's a problem with the backlash idea, is that, unless an exemplar manifests the power, it wouldn't really affect him. At least, not beyond perhaps an overwhelming feeling of despair, or some such effect. Maybe for exemplar manifesting it, if they fail a manifester check to overcome Power Resistance they have to make a save themselves or they are subjected to it. That might be so slim of a chance that it wouldn't be worth the space to write in, but it is a cool aspect.
#5 MephitJames Feb 08, 2004 11:05:40	I wouldn't make the damage dependent on the exemplar targeted. If you pour water on a block of salt, it dissolves x volume of the block regardless of what the total volume of the block is. You're right that a gelugon is more LE than an erinyes, but that just means there's more LE to get burned away in a gelugon than an erinyes. The damage should depend, though, on the psionicist's power, representing who much belief power he can safely wield. I do like Sildatorak's "singing" idea, though, limits the power to make it balanced. What happens to a truly neutral psionicist, though?
#6 sildatorak Feb 08, 2004 12:11:54	Maybe they have can buy the power multiple times and can choose any extreme alignment each time. That doesn't actually cut into the functionality of the spell, and a getting the power a second time isn't going to be as useful. Unless you choose an opposed pair, you're going to have overlap and the second will only give you one full damage and one 1/2 damage target instead of 1 and 2, respectively.
#7 factol_rhys_dup Feb 08, 2004 12:20:12	While the idea that the power could singe some and burn others is definitely more balancing, it sort of short-changes some exemplar. Any self-respecting baatezu would tell you that it is not only wholly evil, but it's the worst kind of evil, too. They're not evil diluted with law, they're evil and law combined in the most sinister way possible.
#8 Ornum Feb 08, 2004 12:20:41	Due to their immunity to telepathic attack, and the fact that being neutral in alignment, thus not having an polar opposite alignment, the rilmani would be immune to such an attack, wouldn't they?
#9 choleric_psion Feb 08, 2004 15:26:24	Faith Burn should deal half damage against neutral creatures and double damage against creatures with a completely opposite algniment. Here's an example: A LG psion has Faith Burn. His Faith Burn would only fully affect creatures that are chaotic and/or evil. The psion uses Faith Burn against a modron (LN). The modron only takes 2d8 points of damage because it has neutral in it's alignment. The psion uses the power again but this time against a devil (LE). The devil takes 4d8 because it is partly evil. The psion later uses Faith Burn of a yugoloth (NE). The yugoloth takes 6d8, 4d8 (for being evil)+2d8 (for being neutral). Finally, the psion uses Faith Burn against a demon (CE). Faith Burn would deal the demon 8d8, 4d8 (for being evil) +4d8 (for being chaotic).
#10 factol_rhys_dup Feb 08, 2004 17:36:09	OK, so Choleric's system seems to work. According to that, the target takes [as of now 2d8 damage] per step away that it is from the manifester along each axis: the good-evil and the law-chaos axis, each are calculated separately. Ornum, I don't know what the specifics are of the Rilmani's immunity to telepathic attacks. Going strictly by the book, if they are immune to mind-affecting abilities, then they're safe from this. If, however, it just says mental attacks, then that's probably referring to psionic attack modes.
#11 sildatorak Feb 08, 2004 21:24:57	The problem with the system Choleric is proposing comes in when you consider a partially neutral manifester, at least from a rule lawyer point of view. A LN psion against a slaad would deal 4d8 against a Slaad (chaotic), but 6d8 against a Tanar'ri (non-neutral and chaotic). I know that's not what he means, but I think it is worth thinking about the phrasing when writing this up to avoid confusion. As for a baatezu being less evil than a yugoloth, I don't think that is why the power would only singe the 'zu. I think of it more that in resistance against it, the 'zu can draw on its lawful nature to retain a stronger sense of identity against an attack that is trying to undo it by destroying its belief existance. The converse works from a slightly different point, but has the same effect. If you are trying to disrupt a baatezu with a blast of CG, your efforts are divided between the two types and it only partially affects a 'loth or modron.
#12 zombiegleemax Feb 08, 2004 21:36:58	Wouldn't it be easier to say that the DCs are +2 for opposite alingments, then make a PrC?
#13 MephitJames Feb 12, 2004 13:07:10	Originally posted by Sildatorak As for a baatezu being less evil than a yugoloth, I don't think that is why the power would only singe the 'zu. I think of it more that in resistance against it, the 'zu can draw on its lawful nature to retain a stronger sense of identity against an attack that is trying to undo it by destroying its belief existance. The converse works from a slightly different point, but has the same effect. If you are trying to disrupt a baatezu with a blast of CG, your efforts are divided between the two types and it only partially affects a 'loth or modron. I don't think Choleric was letting the baatezu off because it was less evil than the 'loth. The psion is directing two energies at the exemplar, one is lawful and one is good. He is manifesting his beliefs that everything should be structured and his beliefs that everyone should be helpful and kind-hearted. Any exemplar that are different from the psion on either axis get damage: 2d8 per step of difference. The baatezu is zero steps away on the law-chaos axis (0 x 2d8=0) and two steps away on the good-evil axis (2 x 2d8=4d8) so the baatezu gets 4d8 damage. A yugoloth is one step away law-chaoswise (1 x 2d8=2d8) and two steps away evil-goodwise (2 x 2d8=4d8) so he gets 6d8 damage (2d8 + 4d8). It's not that the 'zu is more evil, it's that the 'loth is more chaotic. I don't agree that the baatezu would be less affected because of it's dual law-evil nature. Every exemplar has a dual nature that consists of the two components of alignment, some are just balanced. Having a neutral portion of your alignment isn't like not having that part. Think of neutral as grey, it's got equal parts of each component making it a shade in the middle.