GH adventures - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

GH adventures

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Feb 06, 2004 17:00:11 Basically I have a number of RPGA/LG adventures that I have obtained on the internet and I have to say one thing about them. Why in the Nine Hells haven't these been released to the public at large? Some of these are excellent short adventures that could be packaged into adventure books and sold by WotC/RPGA. Not every GH fan is a member of the RPGA/LG but would love to have some nice GH-specific adventures to play in and we don't all have the time/energy/ability to craft decent adventures. And speaking only for myself but I would love to give WotC my $ if it supports a setting I love (ie GH) rather than feeling a need to resort to internet piracy.

I know that the return on adventures is not good at all which is why WotC stopped doing them too much after banging off the series of generic setting adventures ("Sunless Citadel" etc) but these LG adventures could be packaged together as a collection of adventures approaching RttToEE in size which would possibly offer a better return on the investment by WotC. And just to keep the integrity of the RPGA intact perhaps they could only use retired core and adaptable adventures for the collection. This is just my thought on the matter at any rate. What do others think?
#2
twiceborn
Feb 06, 2004 18:53:21 I'm in total agreement. Seems to me that the RPGA especially is depriving itself of what could be a substantial source of revenue.
#3
cwslyclgh
Feb 06, 2004 19:19:27 its not that easy... first they would have to track down and get the permision from all of the poeple who made those adventures, and probably work out some sort of payment to the authors if they planned on making any money off of the publication, as twiceborn suggests.

Then there is the whole editorial proscess (and trust me it would be needed, while there are several very good LG adventures there are also many very poor ones), and they need to pay somebody to do that, and to do the formating etc.... then they need to pay for the production costs (of actually getting it printed etc.) and the distribution costs... and all of this money needs to go out before they can hope to see any return on thier investment. I doubt that the RPGA has the rescources to do anything like what is being suggested right now.

then once it is out it runs into the same problem that caused WotC to decide to stop doing adventure modules, namely that only a percentage of D&D players (those that are DM's) buy them.

while I think it would be a realy cool idea, I don't realy see how it wouldbe all that feasible at this point in time.
#4
zombiegleemax
Feb 06, 2004 20:38:18 Then maybe they should license them to a smaller press who'd be willing to do it and for whom it might prove more profitable.
#5
simpi
Feb 06, 2004 22:14:19 There is a discussion about this in Living Greyhawk board and explanation why it can't be done.

I would put the link here but LG board does not seem to function at the moment.
#6
twiceborn
Feb 06, 2004 23:01:30 cwslyclgh, Simpi, thanks for snapping out of my naivete...
#7
twiceborn
Feb 06, 2004 23:01:50 cwslyclgh, Simpi, thanks for snapping me out of my naivete...
#8
Argon
Feb 06, 2004 23:42:24 A few months ago I wrote WOTC about doing a module release of past LG adventures. I was simply told that no plans to do so were in the future. But it's nice to know other's feel the same way.
#9
Steel_Rabbit
Feb 06, 2004 23:53:39 James_Nostack said it best in the 'Alternity.Net' forums. Even though it's written for Alternity, i still think it fits to this topic of buying a liscence. Just replace the word 'Alternity' with 'Greyhawk'.

-Steel Rabbit
#10
zombiegleemax
Feb 07, 2004 14:47:29 I read the more detailed explanation over on the LG boards before they mysteriously went down and posted this proposal on that thread as well. With regards to licensing issues etc that's why I suggested the core and adaptable scenarios/adventures given that quite a few of them are written by fairly prominent WotC associated folks (Erik Mona, Sean K Reynolds etc). And the collection/anthology idea might help defray the cost of publishing an adventure.

As for the market for such a beast in theory it would limited to DMs only but that's not necessarily such a small market. I guess I would need to know how RttToEE sold before I would presume to declare this feasible. Still it would be nice.
#11
zombiegleemax
Feb 07, 2004 18:36:15 Ummm....so where can you find them on the web??
#12
robbastard
Feb 08, 2004 14:30:40 Here's the LG forum--it appears to have been recently clean out, as there's only one thread (which has been locked): http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=464&pagenumber=1&sortfield=lastpost&sortorder=desc&daysprune=1000&x=10&y=15

Though logistics seem to prevent any publication of LG adventures, the least the RPGA could do is offer the scenarios for free online after they've been retired. I doubt the authors are making much (if any) money from them in the first place, so it's probably safe to say that they wouldn't be losing anything if the retired adventures were offered for free.
#13
Brom_Blackforge
Feb 09, 2004 14:44:54 I started a thread about this in the LG forum about a week ago, and it generated a lot of feedback. Unfortunately, Paradox accidentally deleted the entire LG board, so the thread is gone. However, the basic response I got was that the contracts by which RPGA buys scenarios from authors only permit RPGA to use the scenarios in LG, and only for a limited time. Apparently, the newer contracts allow the rights to revert to the scenario authors once LG is done with them, so they can publish them elsewhere if they remove the Greyhawk content (or, I suppose if they submit them to Dungeon, they can leave the Greyhawk content in them).

I'm grateful to the people that posted over in the LG forum in an attempt to explain the matter to me, but I'm still not sure I get it. (And since the other thread is gone, I don't feel too bad about rehashing the issue here.) It seems to me that, since WotC owns the Greyhawk property, the LG scenarios should have been written as works for hire (in which case WotC would simply own them). However, that's apparently not what has been done, and that is preventing WotC/RPGA from simply releasing the LG scenarios after their run in LG. (My wish was that the retired scenarios be posted on a website - either LG or WotC - for free download, like the generic adventures on the WotC site.) However, since the authors are now gaining control of the scenarios after they're retired, maybe we will still see some of them (preferably in Dungeon, or perhaps posted on Canonfire).
#14
cwslyclgh
Feb 09, 2004 14:56:16 I was under the impression that most of the LG adventure writers did not get paid to do so (nor did they expect to).
#15
zombiegleemax
Feb 09, 2004 17:10:37
Originally posted by Justice
Ummm....so where can you find them on the web??

Well, the good folks at the LG Sunndi region website have a few available which totally rules on their part. Besides that I can't really say due to CofC violations being possible.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 06, 2004 17:00:11	Basically I have a number of RPGA/LG adventures that I have obtained on the internet and I have to say one thing about them. Why in the Nine Hells haven't these been released to the public at large? Some of these are excellent short adventures that could be packaged into adventure books and sold by WotC/RPGA. Not every GH fan is a member of the RPGA/LG but would love to have some nice GH-specific adventures to play in and we don't all have the time/energy/ability to craft decent adventures. And speaking only for myself but I would love to give WotC my $ if it supports a setting I love (ie GH) rather than feeling a need to resort to internet piracy. I know that the return on adventures is not good at all which is why WotC stopped doing them too much after banging off the series of generic setting adventures ("Sunless Citadel" etc) but these LG adventures could be packaged together as a collection of adventures approaching RttToEE in size which would possibly offer a better return on the investment by WotC. And just to keep the integrity of the RPGA intact perhaps they could only use retired core and adaptable adventures for the collection. This is just my thought on the matter at any rate. What do others think?
#2 twiceborn Feb 06, 2004 18:53:21	I'm in total agreement. Seems to me that the RPGA especially is depriving itself of what could be a substantial source of revenue.
#3 cwslyclgh Feb 06, 2004 19:19:27	its not that easy... first they would have to track down and get the permision from all of the poeple who made those adventures, and probably work out some sort of payment to the authors if they planned on making any money off of the publication, as twiceborn suggests. Then there is the whole editorial proscess (and trust me it would be needed, while there are several very good LG adventures there are also many very poor ones), and they need to pay somebody to do that, and to do the formating etc.... then they need to pay for the production costs (of actually getting it printed etc.) and the distribution costs... and all of this money needs to go out before they can hope to see any return on thier investment. I doubt that the RPGA has the rescources to do anything like what is being suggested right now. then once it is out it runs into the same problem that caused WotC to decide to stop doing adventure modules, namely that only a percentage of D&D players (those that are DM's) buy them. while I think it would be a realy cool idea, I don't realy see how it wouldbe all that feasible at this point in time.
#4 zombiegleemax Feb 06, 2004 20:38:18	Then maybe they should license them to a smaller press who'd be willing to do it and for whom it might prove more profitable.
#5 simpi Feb 06, 2004 22:14:19	There is a discussion about this in Living Greyhawk board and explanation why it can't be done. I would put the link here but LG board does not seem to function at the moment.
#6 twiceborn Feb 06, 2004 23:01:30	cwslyclgh, Simpi, thanks for snapping out of my naivete...
#7 twiceborn Feb 06, 2004 23:01:50	cwslyclgh, Simpi, thanks for snapping me out of my naivete...
#8 Argon Feb 06, 2004 23:42:24	A few months ago I wrote WOTC about doing a module release of past LG adventures. I was simply told that no plans to do so were in the future. But it's nice to know other's feel the same way.
#9 Steel_Rabbit Feb 06, 2004 23:53:39	James_Nostack said it best in the 'Alternity.Net' forums. Even though it's written for Alternity, i still think it fits to this topic of buying a liscence. Just replace the word 'Alternity' with 'Greyhawk'. -Steel Rabbit
#10 zombiegleemax Feb 07, 2004 14:47:29	I read the more detailed explanation over on the LG boards before they mysteriously went down and posted this proposal on that thread as well. With regards to licensing issues etc that's why I suggested the core and adaptable scenarios/adventures given that quite a few of them are written by fairly prominent WotC associated folks (Erik Mona, Sean K Reynolds etc). And the collection/anthology idea might help defray the cost of publishing an adventure. As for the market for such a beast in theory it would limited to DMs only but that's not necessarily such a small market. I guess I would need to know how RttToEE sold before I would presume to declare this feasible. Still it would be nice.
#11 zombiegleemax Feb 07, 2004 18:36:15	Ummm....so where can you find them on the web??
#12 robbastard Feb 08, 2004 14:30:40	Here's the LG forum--it appears to have been recently clean out, as there's only one thread (which has been locked): http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=464&pagenumber=1&sortfield=lastpost&sortorder=desc&daysprune=1000&x=10&y=15 Though logistics seem to prevent any publication of LG adventures, the least the RPGA could do is offer the scenarios for free online after they've been retired. I doubt the authors are making much (if any) money from them in the first place, so it's probably safe to say that they wouldn't be losing anything if the retired adventures were offered for free.
#13 Brom_Blackforge Feb 09, 2004 14:44:54	I started a thread about this in the LG forum about a week ago, and it generated a lot of feedback. Unfortunately, Paradox accidentally deleted the entire LG board, so the thread is gone. However, the basic response I got was that the contracts by which RPGA buys scenarios from authors only permit RPGA to use the scenarios in LG, and only for a limited time. Apparently, the newer contracts allow the rights to revert to the scenario authors once LG is done with them, so they can publish them elsewhere if they remove the Greyhawk content (or, I suppose if they submit them to Dungeon, they can leave the Greyhawk content in them). I'm grateful to the people that posted over in the LG forum in an attempt to explain the matter to me, but I'm still not sure I get it. (And since the other thread is gone, I don't feel too bad about rehashing the issue here.) It seems to me that, since WotC owns the Greyhawk property, the LG scenarios should have been written as works for hire (in which case WotC would simply own them). However, that's apparently not what has been done, and that is preventing WotC/RPGA from simply releasing the LG scenarios after their run in LG. (My wish was that the retired scenarios be posted on a website - either LG or WotC - for free download, like the generic adventures on the WotC site.) However, since the authors are now gaining control of the scenarios after they're retired, maybe we will still see some of them (preferably in Dungeon, or perhaps posted on Canonfire).
#14 cwslyclgh Feb 09, 2004 14:56:16	I was under the impression that most of the LG adventure writers did not get paid to do so (nor did they expect to).
#15 zombiegleemax Feb 09, 2004 17:10:37	Originally posted by Justice Ummm....so where can you find them on the web?? Well, the good folks at the LG Sunndi region website have a few available which totally rules on their part. Besides that I can't really say due to CofC violations being possible.