There are some interisting quotes signed by him at the City State of Tyr acessory, but no stats neither relevant info. The only thing I know is that he was one of the most powerful defilers who served Kalak and that after the death of his master (Kalak) he disappered. Any thoughts?
I am wondering where I got the idea from that he is a high-rank necromancer? Is his rank mentioned somewhere besides CGH? City State of Tyr mentions him under the entry for the guy who owns the wagon works (Rarvin?) and once helped Mal Payne put a war beetle together. It only calls him "Kalak's necromancer" though.
And didn't I read a post the other day where Mal Payne was referred to as a she? (>goes off to search<)
OK, maybe not - can't find it. Ho hum...
Darth Maul Payne
Dote Mal Payne
Originally posted by Kelsen
Any info about Darth Maul Payne?
Dote Mal Payn (Gladiator's Handbook)
Dote Mal Payne (City-State of Tyr)
I'm currently working on him as a Faces of Athas entry.
Kamelion, would you care to send me what you imagined of him (anecdotes, catch phrases) or an actual 3e write-up, if you made one?
At this point the more ideas the better... :D
Edit: Damn, Jon, you're fast on the trigger...
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
Dote Mal Payne
Don't you already have a writeup of this guy Jon?
Or was that something else you sent me?
I should throw up my writeup of an Athasian version of Darth Maul, hehe.
(Payne. You must confront PAYNE.)
Okay, maybe not. I thought it mentioned in City State of Tyr a little more about this guy. I want to say he was 11-12th level, but of course I beefed him up quite a bit.
Kamelion, would you care to send me what you imagined of him (anecdotes, catch phrases) or an actual 3e write-up, if you made one?
I did a rough draft of him for a trip into the Golden Tower a few weeks back. Lemme see... ah here we are. A partial writeup (no skills or feats I see, dear oh dear) but I'll bounce him your way...
Don't you already have a writeup of this guy Jon?
No, I went with an NPC of my own design for my campaign: So Kah Nu.
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
No, I went with an NPC of my own design for my campaign: So Kah Nu.
Ok maybe I changed the labeling of the doc then, that could be a possibilty.
:shrug:
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Or was that something else you sent me?
DMP is a major thorn in Brax's campaigns. The necromancer has a tenadancy to crop up from time to time. If anyone's got the good writeup on him, it's Brax.
Originally posted by Gr8Scott
I had him in Bodach, living under the undead rule of Irikos the Kaisharga
Blasphemy!
No one may writeup Irikos but me! LOL
Actually will probably do that soon, using Xlorep's dragon rules since *cough* athas.org hasn't even touched on them yet, at least to my knowledge.
:D
yeah i'm being obtuse... but when are things going to become consistent
sure he existed, thats cannon, but he wasn't a champion. All of the champions are listed in the WC
just praying that the few involved in writing new info "keep it real"
Originally posted by kefka
are you going to make him a champion... cause you know that he was assigned to destroy the same race of creatures as Uyness... right?
yeah i'm being obtuse... but when are things going to become consistent
sure he existed, thats cannon, but he wasn't a champion. All of the champions are listed in the WC
just praying that the few involved in writing new info "keep it real"
I've got an article coming up that will show my side of things and those that want to use it as canon in their campaigns can.
Don't worry, I will make sure I cover everything, or damn well try.
;)
Originally posted by kefka
are you going to make him a champion... cause you know that he was assigned to destroy the same race of creatures as Uyness... right?
you might be right on this......
yeah i'm being obtuse... but when are things going to become consistent
so what
sure he existed, thats cannon, but he wasn't a champion. All of the champions are listed in the WC
not true: the champion named in WC are the remaining ones, not the only ones that were. (some of them were killed, fled--why should Oronis be the only one to have redeemed--, or simply vanished from the face of Athas.)
just praying that the few involved in writing new info "keep it real"
I'll second that statement.
Originally posted by kefka
just praying that the few involved in writing new info "keep it real"
Please keep in mind that just because I write something, doesn't mean it automatically becomes official.
There is a process involved in something becoming official, and I'm sure me writing up Irikos, as a champion, will fail said process miserably. ;)
Also note that crimsonsun.org is *my* website and is not neccessarily affiliated with athas.org. Just because alot of things on there have or will become official doesn't mean everything up there will.
Just FYI.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Please keep in mind that just because I write something, doesn't mean it automatically becomes official.
Ok everyone, so from now its official that we have to keep in mind that just because Nyt writes something, doesn't mean it automatically becomes official.
Everyone wrote that down?!
Originally posted by Pennarin
Ok everyone, so from now its official that we have to keep in mind that just because Nyt writes something, doesn't mean it automatically becomes official.
Everyone wrote that down?!
LOL You hush. :P
Just trying to make sure there isn't any confusion in that department, it seemed to be with Jihun's and Kefka's post.
I could be wrong, but it is covered now regardless.
:D
Ok everyone, so from now its official that we have to keep in mind that just because Nyt writes something, doesn't mean it automatically becomes official.
Actually, Nyte does not have authority to make official statements on behalf of athas.org. This is an official statement that the unofficial statement regarding officiality(unofficiality) of content Nyt produces conforms with official policy. Gotta love the templarate! :D
"not true: the champion named in WC are the remaining ones, not the only ones that were. (some of them were killed, fled--why should Oronis be the only one to have redeemed--, or simply vanished from the face of Athas.)"
-Jihun the Rhul
actually WC does say "All of them are mentioned below" J. Why would you want to make more?
Tecs dead... it mentions him
Kalid-Ma... Goner... it mentions him
Inenek(?) and Pennarin(?)... dosent mention them... but oronis and daskinor arn't named in RaFoaDK (confusion)
And this just puts me right back on the Irikos thing
Daskinor and Oronis are not mentionned in RaFoaDK because the author had not neen made aware by the gaming department of their future presence in the new boxed set....
Same for Irikos: the entry from the Book of Artifacts, a non-DS product, was consistently ignored or forgotten by the game designers...
Inenek is just another name for one of the existing champions: we can assume many have alternative names and actual birth names that are not their champion names...
The absence of Pennarin from the list is because the new Boxed Set did not draw from the novel RaFoaDK. Another failing of communication between gaming and writing depatments...
"All of them are mentioned below", yet Irikos is official, so there goes that statement, neh!?...
A couple of the champions listed are replacements for earlier versions that had been killed, not all of it is mentionned...
Troy Denning once said there were other champions he never mentionned. Perhaps farther north, south and east beyond the silt sea, we'll find them...
if people want to throw around text and quotes and such...
tell me where it says that there are more champions and where does it say that irikos was a champ (right hand = champ?)
o righteous one have mercy, you talk out of both mouths
perhaps I am confusing you by using Champion and Monarch interchangibly
Iriikos was a champ who was also assigned to kill the same race as Unyss (I am guessing because she was fairly incompitent), it is said that Rajaat made tons of champions... just be clear that only the ones that lived through the battle with Rajaat became (what I was refering to as champs but meant monarch) linked with the lens by Borys
so neh!? back
neh?!
First of all this very post I'm writing is not a put down or whatever the english expression is for that.
I was sincerly surprised that you perceived my post that way, kefka. Serious.
I thought I had made myself informative. As in "Spock-like".
Well it seems not just the klingons did find Spock insulting afterall... (and thats a joke, just in case!)
Originally posted by kefka
so neh!? back
That "neh!? " expression I wrote? Its intention was not insulting in the least. See I'm french-speaking and what I wanted to write was the expression "hein!?". I should have put out a ;) instead...
Thats language barriers for you ;)
Originally posted by kefka
where does it say that irikos was a champ (right hand = champ?)
The concepts of SKs and Champions are pretty interchangeable, since most if not all among the first belong to that last category.
You already know that.
I'm saying that because, when the entry for Irikos was written, there were no champions others than the SKs (it was during the Prism Pentad). The people who wrote that section on Irikos knew that also. The only big badies during the cleansing wars were the badies Troy developped in the novels. So I presume that Irikos, written at the same time, was one of those badies.
Originally posted by kefka
o righteous one have mercy, you talk out of both mouths
I'll leave you that one.
Originally posted by kefka
tell me where it says that there are more champions
This is not in any official document.
If I like the aliens Xeelee created by Stephen Baxter and the author in an email or a SF convention tells me or a whole bunch of people that yes!, the mysterious Xeelee are in fact humanoids, even though its not written anywhere, well I'm going to believe it.
Wouldn't you??
Homebrew Dark Sun cosmologie, by me:
God :D-> Denning & Abbey -> TSR staff -> fans
True with most fans I met, explaining why they are ready to ignore some of the things written in the accessories for what's in the novels.
Originally posted by kefka
Iriikos was a champ who was also assigned to kill the same race as Unyss (I am guessing because she was fairly incompitent)
I would say that's from TSR staff writers incompetence. ;)
"All of them are mentioned below", yet Irikos is official, so there goes that statement, neh!?...
-- the question i am asking is "officially what" where does it say he's a champ? And in order to include him (because look at how two mentions of another champion have us quibbling over the details) i pose the question "what is a champion?"
sorry pen, i took Neh?! as a Monty Python "knights who say neh" reference, so i just said neh back
neh?!
lynn abbey wrote that kalak wasn't a champion, that sacha and wyan granted spells to his templars for him...lynn must be a
like me to come up with that type of idea... or is troy wrong and kalak wasn't a champ?And in order to include him [...] i pose the question "what is a champion?"
Pfouu...
-take hat off and scratch head-
Champion:
1- Generals during the Cleansing Wars
2- Those that have been ordained by Rajaat to annihilate a race
3- People with the Champion template
The first two definitions do not put the same people in the champion category as the third one.
I would say a Champion is anyone who fought in the Cleansing Wars, at the head of an army, and who received from Rajaat the title of Champion of Rajaat, preceded by a number, and a slap on the buttom with a go for annihilation.
I believe not all who received the title fell in the third category.
sorry pen, i took Neh?! as a Monty Python "knights who say neh" reference, so i just said neh back
That's not alright, kefka, me and my knights will be appeased only if you bring us a schrubbery! :D
lynn abbey wrote that kalak wasn't a champion, that sacha and wyan granted spells to his templars for him...lynn must be a
Umm...you take us right back into the crux of an old discussion, kefka.
Go read this thread if you want to read some opinions.
The boards community is divided in two concerning the championhood of Kalak, as you can see in reading the thread.
I stand my ground in believing that Kalak could have received the title of Champion without having the template, and that Irikos probably had the Champion template since I wouldn't see Rajaat intrusting the Silencer to anyone else.
(Edit to fix stupid mistakes
)Originally posted by kefka
where does it say that irikos was a champ (right hand = champ?)
PAoA in the Scorcher entry.
It also calls many of the champions "warlord" in said entry.
My article coming up will tie the whole thing together. ;)
Be patient.
and i am siding with flip cuz he's da firestarter
irikos was a puppet
Originally posted by kefka
yup... i saw that post
and i am siding with flip cuz he's da firestarter
irikos was a puppet
Bah, flip is ignorant, history was manipulated I say!
Pretty sure he believes Braveheart was a true story too. :D
/me runs
please say you were kidding
Braveheart, while based on a true story, was horribly inaccurate.
I meant flip believed it anyway, not me.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Bah, flip is ignorant, history was manipulated I say!
Actually I've got it on good account that flip is only a front to Jon, an avatar to bounce ideas off.
Seriously. Scout's honor.
-me scurrying away after seeding chaos and dissention
-I believe not all who received the title fell in the third category.
I like the idea, but it has some flaws. The highest ranking generals of each genocidal army would almost have to be of the 'Champion' template for the simple sake of immortality. The war was a few thousand years long. No army is going to stay cohesive for that kind of duration if its leaders are constantly being replaced every few dozen years. Hence, both 2 and 3 on your list would almost always be the same.
I don't know what levels he should have in 3e, probably more of Wiz and less of Psi, but still epic and kick ass.
Kalak IMHO never become immortal, but stayed a mortal man, rejuvenating periodically, since before the cleansing wars.
I really can't believe Kalak was nothing other than the old man he appears to be, from those colorful descriptions by Tithian, as opposed to same descriptions of Nibenay, obviously wrapped down to his heels in glamours.
Make him Wiz 30/Psi(telepath)20. He's older than most living SKs after all...
Hence, he still looks old and has an old body, but hasn't aged anymore since the casting of that spell.
Don't need the champion template for that, heh.
I figure there's two ways of keeping livin' a loonnggg time:
- you find a process to make yourself immortal, like Dregoth did, and used later on his templar (it may or may not bring the person back to middle age, since City by the Silt Sea wasen't too specific)
- you're powerful enough to cast 8th or 9th-level spells and have the kind of lifestyle and personnal power that allows you to periodically spend 3000XP (Protection from Time) or drain dangerously powerful individuals you'd have to subdue (Vampiric Youthfulness)
Originally posted by Pennarin
Actually I've got it on good account that flip is only a front to Jon, an avatar to bounce ideas off.
Seriously. Scout's honor.
-me scurrying away after seeding chaos and dissention
I realize that I'm only managing to log on to the boards once a week these days (busy busy busy at work) ... but.
Come-on.
Everyone should know that Jon is an avatar of me. I've been around longer. :D
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Bah, flip is ignorant, history was manipulated I say!
... Right.
/me pats nyt on the head.
It doesn't count as falling victim to historical manipulation when I'm the one doing the manipulating. Next!
Originally posted by flip
... Right.
/me pats nyt on the head.
It doesn't count as falling victim to historical manipulation when I'm the one doing the manipulating. Next!
Where's my cookie?
I want my cookie dammit!
:D
Hence, he still looks old and has an old body, but hasn't aged anymore since the casting of that spell.
While I don't recall there ever actually being a specific spell for it, I'm sure that if you've got the mojo to sling out a couple of 'extend your life a few hundred generations', you've probably also a means to remake your self to look like a Nubian god. Kalak's physical appearance was likely more a matter of either preference or indifference. Kalak was nuts, but still not stupid (kinda like Dregoth in that regard). His form as a frail old man was probably adopted for its psychological benefit. You appear weak and frail to lure your enemies into under estimating you. Those in the know, however, see the frailty mixed with massive power and are in far more awe from the contradiction than they would have been if you 'appeared' powerful. Serves a dual purpose for both enemies and allies. 'Course, this assumes that Kalak really cared about it and made it a conscious decision. He may very well have considered his appearance and the upkeep of such to be beneath him. 'Pretty is for the petty and only the weak are fooled by deceptive appearances' could also have been his moto.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
While I don't recall there ever actually being a specific spell for it, I'm sure that if you've got the mojo to sling out a couple of 'extend your life a few hundred generations', you've probably also a means to remake your self to look like a Nubian god. Kalak's physical appearance was likely more a matter of either preference or indifference. Kalak was nuts, but still not stupid (kinda like Dregoth in that regard). [snip]
Understandable, I was just trying to find a reason to explain why he still looked old but yet was immortal.
Not they they're that great or anything. Just trying a different logic angle.Originally posted by Mach2.5
Umm, you snipped the part where I gave two explanations
Yeah, didn't quite understand the reasoning you gave for such if there was one, sorry.
Just trying to explain why he looked old but yet was immortal.
I assume yours was saying that he was immortal but had a spell going to make him look old for obvious reasons.
/me shrugs
you stop aging when you become immortal ( or as in the show, when you learn you are immortal )
so if rajaat didn't make kalak immortal until he was, well, he looks to be about three hundred, that is how he would appear ( but this apearance was glamour anyway because he would have had scales and, um dragon parts...?)
/cringing awaiting
slapcan i have a cookie... pleeeaaase?
:fight!:
was a taboo word... in the slappy sense.../cast finger of death on nyt
ewe is taboo too?/me runs
for Kefka.And Nyte's just mad cause he forgot about it too, but that's okay. We still :inlove: him, even if he's
and sometimes throws a 
when we don't give him the 
that he thinks he deserves when he's on 
or playing at being 
of the world. You just gotta take the with the 
sometimes.
"I'm king of the world!"
"You're a looney."
Actually I could care less if it was an illusion or not, I just like the idea that he was old when he gained immortality, hence locking said frail body into the state of what it was in.
Didn't mean he couldn't kick a little butt because of said frail body. :D
Dragon magic is a powerful thing baybee.
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
No, I went with an NPC of my own design for my campaign: So Kah Nu.
Actualy I was refering to Daar Eht Payne, but I think that guy was for your FR campaign, so nevermind, heh.