Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 15, 2004 12:42:51	I was wondering if anyone knew off-hand which issue of Dragon this character premiered in? Thanx ahead of time
#2 heretic_apostate Feb 15, 2004 13:22:55	To clarify for those who know the answers, do you mean the stories, or the article where they statted out the Justicar, Escalla, Private Henry, the teamster (Polk?), Cinders, and a bunch of magic items (Benelux, Henry's crossbow, Escalla's lich staff (?), and so on)?
#3 zombiegleemax Feb 15, 2004 13:27:14	The one i'm trying to find is I think the very first story of the Justicar. Had something to do w/ him at odd's w/ a knight and how he comes about the hell hound pelt 'Cinder's'.
#4 cwslyclgh Feb 15, 2004 14:29:21	that story (which totaly missportrayed Paladins and the Pelorian religion in general) was not the Justicairs premier appearence in that it was written after the first and second of the novels that he appeared in. It was a sort of "origin story" though. the story is "By the Job" and appeared in Dragon #271
#5 zombiegleemax Feb 15, 2004 14:36:59	Dunkas muchos. I just started reading 'White Plume Mountain' and thought I had read the 'origin' story. Thanx again for the quick reply
#6 robbastard Feb 15, 2004 14:45:55	Originally posted by cwslyclgh that story (which totaly missportrayed Paladins and the Pelorian religion in general) Okay, but didn't you cry when Ol' Cinders died? Here Cinders! Come back Cinders! Best good ol' Dog in the Flanaess!
#7 Greyson Feb 15, 2004 15:08:05	Originally posted by cwslyclgh ... which totaly missportrayed Paladins and the Pelorian religion in general ... I agree with that sentiment whole heartedly. I think a better "origin story" for Cinders could have been devised without misrepresenting the Paladin Class and still maintaining Evelyn's True Neutral alignment. Which, I think, borders on extreme. Cinders is the only good character in those books. Escalla really sucks. Thanks for the info, Wes, I did not know the esteemd Justicar appeared in literature beyond his banal novels.
#8 heretic_apostate Feb 15, 2004 15:26:41	So what happened in By the Job? I don't recall that one. I do recall the first meeting of Cinders and the Justicar... As for the portrayal of paladins, there are paladins who concentrate on the lawful side, and there are paladins who concentrate on the good side. Those who tread too much towards the lawful side can do evil in the name of good.
#9 cwslyclgh Feb 15, 2004 16:21:21	Those who tread too much towards the lawful side can do evil in the name of good. not with out losing thier paladin powers... any evil act whether concious or not, heck even unwilling evil acts preformed while dominated etc. cause the revokation of a paladins special powers and spell casting... which the paladin in the story kept on using after creating a Nazi style concentration camp in the NG god Pelors name.
#10 cwslyclgh Feb 15, 2004 17:36:17	Thanks for the info, Wes, I did not know the esteemd Justicar appeared in literature beyond his banal novels. he also stared in a slightly better story called "Keoland Blues" in a later issue... I think around the 275-280 range, although I can't remember the exact issue number (and I just got all my dragons put back away from looking up the earlier issue number and don;t feel like draging them back out).
#11 zombiegleemax Feb 16, 2004 8:45:48	Dragon issue #278, 'Keoland Blues'.. Thanx everyone for the great feedback. I do have to admit that in 'White Plum Mountain' the character 'Escalla' has to be one of the worst characters ever. Who in thier right mind would have a pixie (Oh my bad, a 'Faerie') spouting off such classic quotes as 'J-man'. I'm right now at page 211 and if I have to read another 'My butt is cute' line I think I may have to put it down for awhile..... Just my 0.02 Thanx again
#12 Greyson Feb 16, 2004 12:59:41	Amen to that, Drmwlkr! Good luck getting through the rest of the Justicar books. I read all three of them looking for Greyhawk lore, historical tidbits, etc. But I did it, despite that jabber-mouth, Escalla. I appreciate your "0.02" because I agree whole-heartedly. Here is another off-topic thought. Justicar served in a band of Grass-Elf Rangers, right? How about using one of them as his companion? Maybe it's too much like Strohm's The Tomb of Horrors (which should be called "The Tomb of Lots of Traps"). But anyone is better than a motor-mouth faerie that spews too many lines that are inappropriate for her genre. What a freaking distraction. I am getting bent-out-of-shape at Escalla's poorly conceived character all over again, I better stop.