I was looking for new D&D stuff on wizards site, after seeing the (ugly) preview of the Half-Giant and a mention of the FR player's handbook. Then I came upon a preview of the 3.5 PsiHB, which features a class called the wilder.
When I look at it, I can't help but feel it could be used to show wild talents. By the description, that class has only one 1st level power at first level, and no Psicrystal. The description also looks like wild talents and their ability to make wild surges of power, but become dazed and weakened by it, as though they don't quite master their powers, also fits. Seeing more of the class and the tables that go with it could help though. Also, someone who chooses to try to develop their psionic potential without training, something a lot of athasians seem to do, could very well be demonstrated by that class... Anyways, we will see.
Also, that very short preview shows us a few things that will change about psionics:
- Psions will now supposedly be more balanced with other races (more powerful than they were, that is). That's just saying, not showing though, so we'll see.
- There will be 4 psionic base classes (Psions, Wilders, Psychic Warriors, and what?)
- Wilders use their Cha to determine DC and bonus Power Points. Perhaps other psionic classes will do the same. This could resolve the problem I had with the Half-Giant egoist with power to burn...
- The DC for the wilder's powers is 10+power level+cha, and not 1d20+power level+cha. That change will likely be carried to all powers, in my opinion.
- An example provided of the use of the spell mentions that mind trust is now considered a power, and it deals 1d10 points of damage per manifester level. This probably means that psionic combat (a completely broken system in my opinion, which I completely changed a long time ago to fit Dark Sun) has either been erased or changed significantly, both of which are good.
- Psi-like abilities now exist, making me think there might be a greater difference between psionics and magic in the base system.
- Now this is highly theoretical, but the wilder gains a resistance to powers from the telepathy science. It could very well be that psionic combat has been transposed into a series of telepathic powers instead, which would give that ability a lot more importance.
Just some thoughts... anyone knows more about the upcoming book?
Now, you choose your specialty, and the stat for that specialty will be used in all power checks (or whatever it's called).
So I've heard from the grapevine...
Ok, I got none of the above... (save for what I wrote, of course ;))
What do you mean? When you choose your discipline, you use only the appropriate stat for everything? was it not already like that? And that means Half-giant egoists will rule even more? What's MAD?
From the sound of things, a Psion(shaper) will, in the revised PsiHB, only have to use their Int score (Metacreative goes off of Int) for all their psionics, rather than the old system of a different attribute for a different "field".
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
Bah, I liked MAD.
Me too, although I never got the chance to use it in a game.
The new system seems to be a bit simpler, which will make game play a bit easier. At least it sounds like each discipline is still associated with one ability score.
At least now you can base Psychometabolism on Con if you wanted (having Psychokinesis as prime discipline). Of course, Telepathy, Psychoportation, Metacreativity, and Clairsentience will be as well.
On another note...
The Wilder looks cool, although I hope that there's a Wild Talent feat as well. Sure they don't intend on the Wilder representing Wild Talents, right?
Every other class has just one major ability score (I... must... resist... calling... it... *prime requisite*) on which its major abilities depend (Wis for clerics, Int for wizards... well, you know), plus 2/3 secondary stats.
A good psion MUST have every score high in order to get a good selection of powers (which are already few and not scalable in the base system).
And another side effect of MAD is that it makes the power of the class too much dependent ont he rolling system you use in the campaign.
With all other classes, if you roll 5d6 instead of 4d6 you'll end with stronger characters but overall still balanced one with another.
On the opposite, a generation system that gives higher averages greatly increase the number of powers known and the DCs of psions, while a lower average system affectively cripples them to just one or two disciplines.
So, while MAD is fascinating, rule-wise is CRAP!!
I sincerely hope that they got further to the point of giving more logical discipline-stat ties.
Now that you don't need to use all the six ability scores, I hope they ditched the AWFUL Dex-Psychoportation liason and used another score for it, don't know, maybe reuse Int.
Now that you don't need to use all the six ability scores, I hope they ditched the AWFUL Dex-Psychoportation liason and used another score for it, don't know, maybe reuse Int.
Why are you so especially unhappy with Dex-Psychoportation? I always considered Half-Giant Egoists (Str!) strange ...
I hope they made up a playable psionic combat system.
Originally posted by Elonarc
Why are you so especially unhappy with Dex-Psychoportation? I always considered Half-Giant Egoists (Str!) strange ...
I hope they made up a playable psionic combat system.
Because, frankly, it's the most ridiculous of them all.
I mean, I can handle that if I'm very perceptive (hi Wis) I'll be good with Psycosentience. I can handle that if I've got a strong personality (hi Cha) I'll be good with Telepathy. I can handle that a good logical mind (hi Int) will make me good at shaping ectoplasm.
But that being a good dancer or juggler will make me good at crossing dimensions or travel in the atral plane...
I'd like that all disciplines will be tied to mental statistics, with maybe the exception of Con or Str for Psychometablism.
After all, since only ONE stat will now rule all the "spellcasting" for a psion there's no need to use all six of them.
The power list is going to be somewhat similar to a cleric's; All psions will have a general list of powers that are useable to psions of all disciplines. In addition, depending on what discipline you take, there will be a list of powers totally unique to you. The general list is supposed to be larger than the unique lists.
Also, for those of you that don't like certain stats playing a part (I personally dislike strength and dexterity) I can't imagine it would be to difficult to simply reassign the disciplines to new stats. Psychoportation being dependent on intelligence instead of dexterity, for example.
Having read the description of the wilder class, I actually like it... the concept makes a lot of sense. Except for the fact that I am looking forward to running a Dark Sun game, and I would like to make all the characters wild talents, and I don't want to make everyone take a level in wilder.
Originally posted by Danzauker
Because, frankly, it's the most ridiculous of them all.
I mean, I can handle that if I'm very perceptive (hi Wis) I'll be good with Psycosentience. I can handle that if I've got a strong personality (hi Cha) I'll be good with Telepathy. I can handle that a good logical mind (hi Int) will make me good at shaping ectoplasm.
But that being a good dancer or juggler will make me good at crossing dimensions or travel in the atral plane...
I'd like that all disciplines will be tied to mental statistics, with maybe the exception of Con or Str for Psychometablism.
After all, since only ONE stat will now rule all the "spellcasting" for a psion there's no need to use all six of them.
Actually, Dex for psychoportation seemed to make more sense to me. It's used for damage avoidance, and to represent finess, quick movments and the like. Advancing that to a psionic ability, it now represents psionic capabilites with movement & teleportation. Made more sense to me than.... Metacreativity and Intelligence.
MAD was a good idea, but it just didn't work. Die MAD, die!!!
Edo.
If so, how would they fit?
--Drake
If not to replace the wild talent rules, at least give something to the folks that want sorcerers in DS.
:D
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
Do you guys feel that the Wilder has a place in Dark Sun?
If so, how would they fit?
--Drake
Well, I'd guess that in the realm of Dark Sun, the Wilder could be someone who developed their psionic abilities without using Tarandian schooling. They would most likely be individuals who had a Wild Talent, and then worked on it themselves, developing into the more emotional-based psionic class that the Wilder seems to be. I've already considered that the Psychic Warrior is along similar lines, only they focused on developing martial skills and using psionics to enhance them, while the Psion class is actually the Tarandian schooling, where they focus on the individual disciplines of psionics and using it to it's fullest extent, through rigorous mental, physical and spiritual training.
Wilders seem to fit into perfection a common wild talent, he does have the psionic power wiwthin him, but he does rely on other things besides it as well (class skill list, proficiences, probable medium BAB).
Pure psions fit more into the 'Tarandan' tradition, though I don't really agree with a trend in this boards that seems to push every psion character into that concept.
Psions can also develop themselves by their own, with no need of teachers or schools, that is what wizards are.
Still, if you'd have a sample of 10 self taught athasians that choosed to develop their psionic talents by their own, I'd expect Wilders to be the bigger group and psions to be the minority.
Edo.
Originally posted by NytCrawlr
While not every psion is going to be schooled in the Taradon tradition, that is a good idea none the less.
...ok, I didn't quite mean it like that, and am sorry for the confusion. I meant using the psion vs wilder difference more along the lines of the differences between a wizard and sorcerer in the Dragonlance campaign setting. The psions are the class that has Tarandian techniques available (or at least, any Tarandian prestige classes should be the easiest for a Psion to join), while other PrC's are better suited for Wilders, and yet others for Psychic Warriors, to represent the differences in fundamental psionic studies those classes have.
Originally posted by WizO_Drake
Do you guys feel that the Wilder has a place in Dark Sun?
If so, how would they fit?
--Drake
It's a great fit, especially as it develops the 2e legacy concept of wild talents into a 3e class. As pointed out above, it also provides a way to capture the unschooled (non-Tarandan) psions with a base class.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
...ok, I didn't quite mean it like that, and am sorry for the confusion. I meant using the psion vs wilder difference more along the lines of the differences between a wizard and sorcerer in the Dragonlance campaign setting. The psions are the class that has Tarandian techniques available (or at least, any Tarandian prestige classes should be the easiest for a Psion to join), while other PrC's are better suited for Wilders, and yet others for Psychic Warriors, to represent the differences in fundamental psionic studies those classes have.
Ah, that's better, and I agree.