But as far as I remember, the DLCS stats that multiclassing is the same as disobeying orders --> renegade status.
But the DM always has the final word.
If you want to take some fighter levels with your wizard, go for it. I reccomend taking the War Mage at some point, so you can cast in some armor.
Originally posted by raistlinrox
Is the war mage in the Age of Mortals?
Yes it is. But don't confuse it with the Warmage from the Miniatures Handbook.
It's a kick ass 5 level prestige class. From a power-gaming standpoint, there's no reason not to take it. From a role-playing standpoint, it's interesting and fits really well in any war-time/mercenary/military campaign.
Originally posted by Myrridin
In 3.5 you can freely multiclass into a fighter, or rogue, or ranger if you want. Weapon proficiences are granted by class, and you can get them by taking that class whenever you want. If you want to make a fighter-mage, you can take a few levels of fighter to go with your WoHS, and then take the Eldritch Knight PrC.
If you want to take some fighter levels with your wizard, go for it. I reccomend taking the War Mage at some point, so you can cast in some armor.
Maybe im wrong but as far as I remembr WoHS are not allowed to wear armor and the only wepons they can weild are the dagger and staff, not because they dont have poficiency with other weapons but because the orders prohibit (sp?).
In other words you could have hevy armor proficincy but if you wear it your are a renegade.
As for multi-classing…
Basically, a wizard cannot multi-class with any class that uses ambient magic. So a wizard could not also be a bard, sorcerer, or mystic. A wizard can multi-class with any non-spellcasting class, so long as the class does not prohibit it. So, you could have a WoHS/fighter but not a WoHS/monk.
The tricky part is where divine spellcasting classes that gain their magic from gods are concerned (cleric, druid, paladin, and ranger). A straight wizard can multi-class with any of these classes (noting multi-class restrictions again). One who has taken the Test of High Sorcery and has the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class cannot. The reason for this is that when you become a WoHS, you take on a patron deity, being one of the three gods of magic. In Dragonlance, you cannot gain magical power from two deities. So no WoHS/clerics.
One can, of course, have some house rules in play.
HOUSE RULE #1: I could see prohibiting a WoHS from multi-classing (ala the paladin and monk) unless they multi-class with a class that advances their arcane magic. This would represent their total dedication to magic. So no WoHS/fighter but a WoHS/war mage is just fine.
HOUSE RULE #2: This one is for ambient spellcasters. One could allow a WoHS to multi-class with an ambient spellcasting class, so long as the total wizard/WoHS levels (and any other wizard PrC) are higher than their ambient spellcasting class levels. You could expand this to say that one cannot gain a prestige class unless it affects one’s combined wizard levels (i.e. war mage would add to wizard levels, not sorcerer).
By going this route, I would recommend that magic is still a central figure. Maybe a wizard seeks to learn the arcane magic of Wild Sorcery, or is a mystic who has taken the magic domain, or is a bard whose bardic knowledge is focused on the history of magic.
So there you go. The official take, and some nifty house rules as well. Whatever the case, use what works best with your group, and have fun!
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Wizards in prior editions could only use dagger and staff, to honor Magius’ sacrifice. In 3e, they now can use any weapons that a Player’s Handbook wizard can use, although they typically only use dagger and staff (again, in honor of Magius). So a WoHS could use other weapons, but his fellow wizards may frown upon him.
Do you think that anything would come from this frowning? Would a wizard be branded a renegade for using a club or a crossbow? Or in the case of elven casters, would using a longsword or longbow? Are there anymore questions I can bombard you with :P:P:P?
So DH, what is your unofficial(though it is as close to official as one can get) list of PrCs that would work alongside the WoHS. So far my list consists of the following: Archmage, Arcane Trickster(special circumstances only), loremaster, and basically anything from the DLCS or AoM that concerns wizards.
But that's just how I see it.
WoHS cannot multiclass with a primal sorcery casting class or a focused divine casting class. So, a WoHS/mystic would be okay, but rare. WoHS/fighter would be allowed(Ariakas was one), but I think that their combined wizard casting levels should be higher than any other levels(if they multiclass while being a WoHS. They won't be branded renegades if they were a fighter for 10 levels and then decided to become a wizard). A WoHS *COULD* take levels of paladin or ranger, but only three, as those classes are granted magic from gods. But, when speaking about PrCs, then it depends. For instance, I think that Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Loremaster, Eldritch Knight, Archmage, and Thaumaturgist(or whatever) are apprpriate PrCs from the DMG. The Mystic Theurge would only work if they multiclasses as a mystic.
Of course, this is pretty much thrown out the window when talking about just a wizard, not a WoHS.
Oh, and about the weapons, there're like, 4 weapons they usually carry, but there's nothing that says they *HAVE* to use them. It's all right if they don't, but not encouraged.
Originally posted by Daedavias
Do you think that anything would come from this frowning? Would a wizard be branded a renegade for using a club or a crossbow? Or in the case of elven casters, would using a longsword or longbow? Are there anymore questions I can bombard you with :P:P:P?
Lol!
I don't think that a wizard would be branded a renegade for using a club or crossbow. It might be questioned just how dedicated the wizard is, though. After all, the study of magic is all-consuming.
I think the Wizards of High Sorcery are open to racial traditions, so an elf using elf-specific weapons wouldn't be totally out of order. Again, though, magic comes first.
I once played an Irda WoHS during the post-Cataclysm years, who carried a khopesh. I wasn't sure what types of weapons worked for Irda, so I went with something a bit exotic. Think of it as a really long dagger... ;)
So DH, what is your unofficial(though it is as close to official as one can get) list of PrCs that would work alongside the WoHS. So far my list consists of the following: Archmage, Arcane Trickster(special circumstances only), loremaster, and basically anything from the DLCS or AoM that concerns wizards.
Archmage is an excellent choice. I think the High Arcana class feature is right in tune with the flavor of the WoHS. I would definitely use this class for members of the Conclave, as well as other high-powered mages.
I would be really leary of the arcane trickster. Personally, I don't think it fits the flavor of the WoHS. Same can be said for the Spellfilch in Age of Mortals. Both classes would fit the sorcerer much better, IMHO.
Loremaster is excellent as well. Perhaps the Loremaster is studying ancient magical lore, or works with the aesthetics. I used the Loremaster class for my 3e conversion of my irda wizard that I mentioned above. I found it fit the character quite well. He was a wizard/bard in 2e. ;)
The Solamnic Auxiliary Mage is one of my favorites from Age of Mortals. I like the idea of combining Solamnic honor with the power of a mage. I'm playing one in a diceless play-by-post game on the Dabel Brothers boards, and I love the guy. Wish I could play him in person.
War Mage is very appropriate as well. That would fit a Black Robe working for the Dragonarmy, or a White Robe on the side of the Whitestone forces. Even Red Robes, such as Magius, would use this class.
People may disagree with me on this one, but I would not use the Eldritch Knight. To me, the class doesn't represent what the WoHS are about. Too martial. Now, I do think this would be good for the Thorn Knights.
A person may wish to use the Arcane Devotee from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Now, this doesn't mesh 100% with the feel of the WoHS, but it is an option for those who like the idea of clerics of the gods of magic.
Tome and Blood may have some options as well, although one should be careful here. Some really don't fit the feel of DL too well (i.e. the alienist).
The Candle Caster always seemed a bit goofy to me, but I could see it working. No two wizards are alike, and some find new and different ways to use their magic. You could add some flavor to this as well. White Robes could have a white flame, Red Robes could have a red flame, and Black Robes could have a black flame (that burns cold).
The Elemental Savant might be good to show how a WoHS can specialize in one area of magic. The transformation into an elemental creature should be used with caution. I'm not sure if this has that "Dragonlance feel" or not, but it could be an interesting option.
The Mindbender is a nifty class, and would work nicely for Black Robes. Dominating minds is right up their alley.
You may find that some of the other classes in there work well for wizards, although I'd advise caution on some of them.
If I get time, I’ll look in my Complete Book of Eldritch Might and see if Monte Cook has any goodies for use in Dragonlance.
Humans I don't believe have the lifespan to explore all these other options, with the study of magic encompassing most of their lifes.
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
Heheheh...I was thinking about the Solamnic Auxilliary Mage a while back, and I came up with an idea that years and years later on, they became a full branch of the Knighthood. The Knights of the Moon. I was even toying with the idea that a Knight vcould go either Crown/Sword/Rose or Crown/Moon/Rose, but I think that's a little silly. But anyway, I pretty much just combined it with the War Mage, going alternating levels(I thought it needed 10 levels, the other Orders did.).
Beat you to it with my Knights of Krynnspace. There's three orders - Knights of the Sun, Knights of the Star, and Knights of the Moon.
The Diplomancer would be a good PrC for WoHS who come from noble birth. I could picture a noble from Palanthas, or an elf noble eventually taking on this class.
Embermage - This is another fire mage. I'm not sure if it has that DL feel to it, but you may want to check it out anyway.
I'm not sure on the rest. Some, like the Graven One, are cool but don't quite have that DL feel.
Just an interesting note (pun intended), there's a prestige class in here called the Knight of the Chord. They're a group of bardic knights, basically.
So, what other prestige classes would you guys use for your WoHS?
Great discussion, guys! I'm really enjoying this.
Anointed Knight:
Anointed knights are often individuals that start down the path of wizardry, only to find that it is not for them. They sometimes continue to fight for the cause of Solinari, because even though they are themselves only dabblers, they still understand magic better than most other people on Krynn. If not a follower of Solinari, then they most often follow Kiri-Jolith or Paladine, in Ages where they are around, or just simply further the cause of good. Wizards of High Sorcery are not allowed to become anointed knights, but Solamnic Auxiliary Mages are, as well as Knights of Solamnia.
Celestial Mystic:
Celestial mystics are most often priests of Paladine, Mishakal, Majere, or Kiri-Jolith, who make sacrifices to become closer to their god. Occasionally, celestial mystics arise among the ranks of the Wizards of High Sorcery as some sort of semi-Moon Disciple(although they often take that prestige class as well). They are quite common among the ranks of the Solamnic Auxiliary Mages, as well. The only mechanical difference is that they must be able to prepare and cast level 4 spells.
Moon Disciple of Solinari:
Sometimes in the Wizards of High Sorcery, an indiviadual becomes closer to their patron deity than most others in their order. They become almost cleric-like, and that is where the order of the Moon Disciples arose. They are the same as the Exalted Arcanist in the BoED with the following exceptions:
REQUIREMENTS
Base Save Bonus: Will +6
Spellcasting: Must be able to prepare and cast 3rd level arcane spells.
Organization: Must be a member of the Wizards of High Sorcery.
CLASS FEATURES:
Spell Knowledge: At 1st level, a Moon Disciple of Solinari gains 2 new spells per day of any level that she can cast.
Faster Consecrate: At 2nd level, a Moon Disciple of Solinari can cast all Consecrated spells as a free action.
Faster Purify: At 4th level, a Moon Disciple of Solinari can cast all Purified spells as a free action.
Sanctified Spells: At 5th level, a Moon Disciple of Solinari can use sanctified spells as though they were on her spell list, but she still has to scribe the spell into her spellbook, just like any other spell.
Prophet of the Light:
A prophet of the light comes in many different forms, but they are at the heart the same: seers and visionaries, mediums of heavenly will, pronouncers of judgement on evil in the world, speakers of words and comfort to the oppressed, and announcing the work of the gods on Krynn. They are usually clerics, and sometimes even druids, but rarely, a Wizard of High Sorcery will become a prophet for Solinari(they also are usually Moon Disciples). They are the same as the BoED Prophet of Erathaol, witht he following exceptions:
REQUIREMENTS:
Alignment: Any good(see Patron requirement).
Spells: Must be able to prepare and cast 4th level arcane(for prophets of Solinari) or divine spells.
Patron: A prophet must choose a patron deity once they adopt this prestige class, and their alignment must match that of their deity. For example, a prophet of Solinari, Kiri-Jolith, Majere, or Paladine must be lawful good, a prophet of Mishakal or Habbakuk must be neutral good, and a prophet of Branchala must be chaotic good.
Wonderworker:
Wonderworkers are spellcasters who devote themselves to good. They are allowed within the Wizards of High Sorcery. They are the same as the BoED Wonderworker, except that they must cast magic, not manifest psionics.
Alright, that should be everything...
Acolyte of the Skin:
Acolytes of the skin are rare members of the Black Robed Wizards of High Sorcery, renegades, sorcerers, and Knights of the Thorn who make contact with fiends from the Abyss. They are often frowned upon among the Black Robes, but are sometimes seen as great leaders in other circles. They are the same as the T&B acolyte of the skin, except that they require any evil alignment, and 8 ranks in Knowledge(the Planes) instead of their listed alignment and skill prerequisites.
Alienist:
Even more rare than acolytes of the skin, alienists are those who have made contact with some of the more unusual extraplanar creatures. They are present in almost all circles of wizards, sorcerers and mystics(although they most often come from the more divinely classes), and even the Holy Order of the Stars. They are most often neutral, though, because the neutral gods have the most variation in their followrs, and thus are the ones most likely to have psuedonatural creatures.
Arcane Trickster:
Arcane tricksters are similar to spellfilches, except they usually have a more rogueish nature. They are present, if unwelcome, among the ranks of the Wizards of High Sorcery, and are much more likely to be sorcerers. They are much rarer then spellfilches.
Bladesinger:
Bladesingers are common in the elven community as dabblers of arcane magic(though they may be members of the Wizards of High Sorcery). They are usually fighter/wizards or bards(of High Sorcery). It is the same as the web enhancement version of the Bladesinger from T&B, except that they must be able to prepare and cast 1st level arcane magic to join.
Blood Magus:
Blood magi are extremely rare, considering how uncommon the different resurection spells are, but they can exist in almost every magic circle, but naturally not in the Solamnic Auxilliary Mages and the Knights of the Thorn.
Candle Caster:
Candle casters are rare and unusual spellcasters. They are often looked down upon for their dependance on candles. They do appear in about all circles of magic, though.
Dragon Disciple:
The dragon disciple has almost no place in Dragonlance. The only way it could work would be for:
A draconian who is trying to become more in touch with his dragon roots. They must be a Dragon Disciple of their corresponding type, for instance, a Bozak Draconian must be a Bronze Dragon Disciple. The nondragon requirement is wavered for them.
A dragonspawn who is getting more in touch with his draconian roots. The same rules apply to them as draconians, pretty much.
And, for dragons that are somehow trapped in a different body and are trying to get in touch with their true self. For example, if a brass dragon is killed in the Dragon Purge, but his soul somehow gets diverted and gets reborn as a kender.
Elemental Savant:
Elemental savants are magic users specialized in the use of the elements. They are most often neutral clerics(as their gods use elementals more often than any others), or sorcerers.
Fatespinner:
Fatespinners are extemely rare, and are most often Moon Disciples, but can also be sorcerers.
Mage of the Arcane Order:
The Arcane Order is an order within the Orders of High Sorcery. They have their own ruling council, called the Council of Regents, who are highly repected individuals. The penalties for being a Regent is that though they can command others in the Arcane Order, they can not command wizards not in the Arcane Order, except if they have a higher overall status within the Order of High Sorcery(although, outsiders often will follow their orders anyway). Also, a Regent cannot also be head of the Conclave, but their highest ranking regents(or, if they have no regents at the time, i.e. no members have 10 levels in the Prestige Class, then the highest ranking regular member acts as a regent, but he is not actually one) are guaranteed a place on the Conclave. The Arcane Order acts as almost a mini Order of High Sorcery, in that there is a head regent from every robe color. They are a lot more brotherly than the other members, which was the reason why this order was founded in the first place. They are the same mechanically as the Mage of the Arcane Order from T&B, except that they do not have to pay a fee to join, but they must be members of the Wizards of High Sorcery, and the guild member class ability no longer exists.
Mindbender:
Mindbenders are wielders of magic that like so much to manipulate people that they perfect it into an artform, even at the expense of magic. This is of course slightly frowned upon in the Black-Robed Wizards of High Sorcery, who believe that a wizard's main focus should be magic, but are present, and even encouraged, among the ranks of both the Thorn and Skull Knights, especially the latter. Also, they are quite common among clerics of the evil gods, especially from Hiddukel. They are the same as the T&B Mindbender, except that it is required that they can cast any kind of 3rd level or higher spells, not specifically arcane spells, and that they must be evil.
Pale Master:
Pale masters are arcane spellcasters who are trying to become masters of the deathless arts. They often revere Chemosh greatly, but of course cannot be one of his clerics if they do not want to be branded as renegades. They are usually wizards, but are sometimes sorcerers, or they may multiclass as a mystic and pick up the Death or Necromancy domain. They are the same as the T&B pale master, except that they must be evil.
Spellsword:
Spellswords are *NOT* welcome among the Wizards of High Sorcery, even though they it is against the rules to refuse one entry. They are more often than not renegades, or Thorn Knights trying to increase their fighting ability while not overlooking their magic. They are the same as the T&B Spellsword, with the following changes:
REQUIREMENTS:
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Spells: Able to cast arcane spells of 1st level or higher.
True Necromancer:
True necromancers are spellcasters who try to gain ultimate power over life and death. They are usually clerics of Chemosh who pursue wizardry long enough to learn spectral hand and vampiric touch, or cleric/sorcerers, and very rarely wizard/mystics(if they wish to become Black Robed Wizards of High Sorcery) or sorcerer/mystics, although many true necromancers are renegades in the eyes of the Conclave. True necromancers often hold the highest places in Chemosh's church. Every so often, the Black Robes will make a strike against the true necromancers because Nuitari does not like Chemosh edging in to his domain(wizardry). They are the same as the T&B True Necromancer, except they must be evil.
Wayfarer Guide:
A wayfarer guide is a spellcaster who specializes in transporting people through the passageways of magic. They are excepted in all circles of magic, and are sometimes highly respected, even if they are at heart human carriages(taxis). They are the same as the T&B Wayfarer Guide, but there is no such organization as the Wayfarers' Union.