The Bleak house: death of Van Richten: canon or not? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The Bleak house: death of Van Richten: canon or not?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Feb 19, 2004 10:11:25 I was just wondering.... in Sword&sorcery Ravenloft van Richtens had disapeared, but the adventure Bleak House? And the Domains of Dread timeline says he got killed?

What happend to van Richten? Dead or missed?
#2
zombiegleemax
Feb 19, 2004 10:13:43 You tell me.
#3
zombiegleemax
Feb 19, 2004 10:25:56 Depends on who's asked. The Twins hope he's still alive, the vampires must hope he's dead.

As of Canon, he indeed disapeared into Bleak House but weither he's dead or not is up to individual DMs.
#4
zombiegleemax
Feb 21, 2004 14:24:23 ...as well as what choices the PCs make in the campaign, naturally. ~_^
#5
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2004 10:33:55 I recall reading somewhere (the Kargatane I think) that the Bleak House adventure is non-canon.
#6
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2004 11:25:15
Originally posted by EvanT
I recall reading somewhere (the Kargatane I think) that the Bleak House adventure is non-canon.

Nope

Only two products were declared non-canon: The Ennemy within (and the Half-Golem NPC in the RL monstrous compedium appendix II) because they provided 2 versions of Tristen Hiregaard that were contradictory with the official version in Awakening and DOmains of Dread.
But a few elements of The Ennemy Within were salvaged in the 3ed version of Tristen.

THe other one is Lord of the Necropolis because it explained the Dark Powers, something that must not be explained.

The official ending of Bleak House was never established and is left for individual DMs to decide.
#7
Matthew_L._Martin
Feb 28, 2004 11:28:31
Originally posted by EvanT
I recall reading somewhere (the Kargatane I think) that the Bleak House adventure is non-canon.

That's a persistent rumor, but it's inaccurate--the non-canon list only includes three items: The Enemy Within, Lord of the Necropolis, and the "Desmond LaRouche" entry from the RAVENLOFT Monstrous Compendium Appendix II. Indeed, I believe work is or was being done on reconciling even those with the canon. (Statements on the Kargatane board by Nicky Rea & Jackie Cassada also suggest that Champions of Darkness and Heroes of Light fall into a 'quasi-canon' position; I welcome further clarification.)

Now, exactly which ending of Bleak House is 'canon' has never been defined. However, they all tend to resolve in a similar fashion.

Matthew L. Martin
#8
rotipher
Feb 28, 2004 12:49:19 IIRC, some aspects of the novel "Death of a Darklord" have also been refuted by the Kargat. Most significantly, the premise that a cleric brought to Ravenloft by the Mists cannot receive spells, due to loss of spiritual contact with his/her deity, is definitely *not* true.
#9
The_Stray
Feb 28, 2004 13:52:10 There's a LOT of wonkey stuff in "Death of a Darklord"...The only RL novel I wish I'd never read (and right after reading "Carnival of Fear," too!)
#10
zombiegleemax
Feb 28, 2004 17:07:14
Originally posted by Rotipher
IIRC, some aspects of the novel "Death of a Darklord" have also been refuted by the Kargat. Most significantly, the premise that a cleric brought to Ravenloft by the Mists cannot receive spells, due to loss of spiritual contact with his/her deity, is definitely *not* true.

I wouldn't say that.

Clerics are getting spells, but are they getting them from the deity they THINK they are gettig them from? There's evidece that someone/somethign else might be answering their prayers....
#11
The_Jester
Feb 28, 2004 21:31:18 In the old Kargatane FAQ it brings up the conon-inity of Bleak House, or rather the canon ending. Is Rupolph Van alive, dead or somewhere inbetween.
#12
rotipher
Feb 29, 2004 16:31:24
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
Clerics are getting spells, but are they getting them from the deity they THINK they are getting them from? There's evidence that someone/something else might be answering their prayers....

Possibly. But the novel openly professed that clerics couldn't get their spells back, PERIOD, which was by far the most deceptive of the many bits of "wonky stuff" in "Death of a Darklord". Most of the plot's other discrepancies could've been written off as bizarre examples of Powers checks gone wrong, or the like; but the way the cleric couldn't recover his healing spells in Kartakass misleads the reader into thinking that's how the demiplane is *supposed* to work, hence totally screwing up your campaign if you take it at face value.

Incidentally, while the whole novel "Lord of the Necropolis" was declared non-canon, I re-read it recently and didn't see anything in the first half that seemed objectionable, either in consistency with other products or in giving away the DPs' alleged nature. So it'd probably be okay to declare that Part 1 of that novel really did happen IYC, and only Part 2 is bogus.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Feb 19, 2004 10:11:25	I was just wondering.... in Sword&sorcery Ravenloft van Richtens had disapeared, but the adventure Bleak House? And the Domains of Dread timeline says he got killed? What happend to van Richten? Dead or missed?
#2 zombiegleemax Feb 19, 2004 10:13:43	You tell me.
#3 zombiegleemax Feb 19, 2004 10:25:56	Depends on who's asked. The Twins hope he's still alive, the vampires must hope he's dead. As of Canon, he indeed disapeared into Bleak House but weither he's dead or not is up to individual DMs.
#4 zombiegleemax Feb 21, 2004 14:24:23	...as well as what choices the PCs make in the campaign, naturally. ~_^
#5 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2004 10:33:55	I recall reading somewhere (the Kargatane I think) that the Bleak House adventure is non-canon.
#6 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2004 11:25:15	Originally posted by EvanT I recall reading somewhere (the Kargatane I think) that the Bleak House adventure is non-canon. Nope Only two products were declared non-canon: The Ennemy within (and the Half-Golem NPC in the RL monstrous compedium appendix II) because they provided 2 versions of Tristen Hiregaard that were contradictory with the official version in Awakening and DOmains of Dread. But a few elements of The Ennemy Within were salvaged in the 3ed version of Tristen. THe other one is Lord of the Necropolis because it explained the Dark Powers, something that must not be explained. The official ending of Bleak House was never established and is left for individual DMs to decide.
#7 Matthew_L._Martin Feb 28, 2004 11:28:31	Originally posted by EvanT I recall reading somewhere (the Kargatane I think) that the Bleak House adventure is non-canon. That's a persistent rumor, but it's inaccurate--the non-canon list only includes three items: The Enemy Within, Lord of the Necropolis, and the "Desmond LaRouche" entry from the RAVENLOFT Monstrous Compendium Appendix II. Indeed, I believe work is or was being done on reconciling even those with the canon. (Statements on the Kargatane board by Nicky Rea & Jackie Cassada also suggest that Champions of Darkness and Heroes of Light fall into a 'quasi-canon' position; I welcome further clarification.) Now, exactly which ending of Bleak House is 'canon' has never been defined. However, they all tend to resolve in a similar fashion. Matthew L. Martin
#8 rotipher Feb 28, 2004 12:49:19	IIRC, some aspects of the novel "Death of a Darklord" have also been refuted by the Kargat. Most significantly, the premise that a cleric brought to Ravenloft by the Mists cannot receive spells, due to loss of spiritual contact with his/her deity, is definitely not true.
#9 The_Stray Feb 28, 2004 13:52:10	There's a LOT of wonkey stuff in "Death of a Darklord"...The only RL novel I wish I'd never read (and right after reading "Carnival of Fear," too!)
#10 zombiegleemax Feb 28, 2004 17:07:14	Originally posted by Rotipher IIRC, some aspects of the novel "Death of a Darklord" have also been refuted by the Kargat. Most significantly, the premise that a cleric brought to Ravenloft by the Mists cannot receive spells, due to loss of spiritual contact with his/her deity, is definitely not true. I wouldn't say that. Clerics are getting spells, but are they getting them from the deity they THINK they are gettig them from? There's evidece that someone/somethign else might be answering their prayers....
#11 The_Jester Feb 28, 2004 21:31:18	In the old Kargatane FAQ it brings up the conon-inity of Bleak House, or rather the canon ending. Is Rupolph Van alive, dead or somewhere inbetween.
#12 rotipher Feb 29, 2004 16:31:24	Originally posted by Writer of Stuff Clerics are getting spells, but are they getting them from the deity they THINK they are getting them from? There's evidence that someone/something else might be answering their prayers.... Possibly. But the novel openly professed that clerics couldn't get their spells back, PERIOD, which was by far the most deceptive of the many bits of "wonky stuff" in "Death of a Darklord". Most of the plot's other discrepancies could've been written off as bizarre examples of Powers checks gone wrong, or the like; but the way the cleric couldn't recover his healing spells in Kartakass misleads the reader into thinking that's how the demiplane is supposed to work, hence totally screwing up your campaign if you take it at face value. Incidentally, while the whole novel "Lord of the Necropolis" was declared non-canon, I re-read it recently and didn't see anything in the first half that seemed objectionable, either in consistency with other products or in giving away the DPs' alleged nature. So it'd probably be okay to declare that Part 1 of that novel really did happen IYC, and only Part 2 is bogus.